It has already become clear that some of you have come up with a plan. What do you have in mind? To find what direction? Oh, I'm sorry that we shouldn't, you didn't have to start. Yeah, Andrea asked me to speak more about the celestial time. Gestational time. And one of the most elusive and late development ideas in Buddhism and one of the is the concept of the Alaya Vijnana, the eighth of the eight Vijnanas.

[01:07]

And there's many interpretations of it. And my own, it's been an important concept in my practice, an unavoidable concept in Buddhism practice, I think. And it certainly directly relates to the mystery of the... mystery and success of contemplation therapy.

[02:09]

So one of the things I've wanted to do is to use the two doors of bodily time and contextual time To set up the possibility of entering the door of gestational time and recognizing it's also the door of the Alaya-Vijjana. But I'd like to leave that until... We go till Sunday? Till about two o'clock or three o'clock? One o'clock? Okay, let's leave it till 12.30 on Sunday. Okay. Yeah, and see if we can practice acupuncture, downloading.

[03:32]

Anyway, let's wait a little bit and see when it comes up, but not now. And one of, you know, I described this bodily time as establishing an initial mind. Erzeugen eines Anfangsgeistes, eines Initialgeistes. But if I change the wording a little bit and say setting up an initial mind. Aber wenn ich die Wortgebung ein bisschen verändere und sage ein Initialgeist reiten oder

[04:39]

Then there's a whole teaching that can extend from that is how you set up a mind. Hashtag, I don't know. Hashtag. But I think that how to set up a mind, which is quite interesting, how to set up and what minds it's fruitful to set up. We know you can change your mind. But the idea that you can set up a mind, then we have to deal with, in our culture, we would think that is rather artificial.

[06:06]

And part of the practice of setting up a mind is to know when it's artificial and when it's damaging. Fake, you know. But let's leave that till Monday. So we have something to do next year. You know... I said to, since I've known Dorian and his brother, what's his brother's name? Raphael. I've known Dorian and Raphael since they were born. Now Dorian's got these two little girls. And when I saw Dorian yesterday playing tennis with his cousins, I said, I hope I'm still around when I see your two daughters playing tennis.

[07:44]

But we'd all be so old. We'd be in walkers and canes and wheelchairs and So what else should we talk about? What was on your mind, Christina? I'm still dealing with what I've asked before the lunch break. Talking about his break. During their break, I learned that I could maybe express it also in a different way. Many of us are involved with trauma therapy.

[08:59]

Yes. when I'm trying to use your concepts in a situation that can have traumatic consequences? Also, it's like medicine, like science. It's a concept that's really important to us, to our contextual self. It's something... So maybe a traumatic event could be understood as the the contextual time being intrusive to such a degree that the experiencing of your own time

[10:35]

is interrupted or frozen. Yeah, I would think that Kuni, with her sensitivity to what's happened in war, that's when contextual time becomes trauma. Okay, well now... So through practice or whatever, if you can return to the experiencing of bodily time, And then we have a chance to maybe experience the contextual time as something that can be together with the own bodily time.

[11:54]

So that something can actually ripen. When somebody... When someone's not used to that, then what can happen is that the memory of, the remembering of contextual time not allowing bodily time to function. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So then that's something like the intrusiveness of the contextual can be remembered even though or experienced through memory even though it's not happening right now.

[12:59]

Yeah, I think that during my lifetime anyway That trauma is one of the most interesting new, for me in my lifetime, new concepts in the practice of psychology and therapy. And is there any book in a language I can read that you'd recommend about the history of trauma coming into Western psychology? Okay, you can tell me later now. Can I say something? Yes, please. Often there is this experience that something that could have been found personally,

[14:13]

That's how we discuss it, as if it were a social work, which I'm just curious about. So it can result in the aliveness of bodily time not being available to the person, to me anymore. The elements of the contextual are then lived as if they are part of our own body and time, but that's a misunderstanding. I think that... Trauma is one of the psychological pain problems, suffering, that probably Buddhism has tools to work with, more than other things, probably.

[15:38]

So I want to think about it more. I think trauma is something that Buddhism... Which language do you speak? I don't know. Maybe I should shut up. That would slow things down. Secret? Maybe speaking about this from a different angle and side. The question that came up before is, which states of mind or which minds make sense to set up?

[16:44]

I assume sometimes I have an assumption of what kind of mind is useful for me. I hear from a master of some kind and I sense that this would be good for me. And now I want to call our attention to a philosopher whose name is Blaise Pascal. And he made a suggestion. I'd like to hear what you have to say about that. he says act as if assume a practice as if you believed in this as if you were in this mind

[18:12]

I sometimes try to find in my psychotherapies, in connection with positive experiences, a ritual, a practice for this person. After a therapy session where there were positive experiences, I'm trying to find a ritual for the client. There is this moment of acting as if is part of that. As if minds are a real, we could say, common part of Buddhist practice. But I suppose in Buddhism the first rule is you know it's an as if mind.

[19:37]

Because many people have all kinds of nice social minds, hostess minds, and repress themselves all the time through some kind of mind that they don't know is an as-if mind. So this is a point where some kind of skill at practice is important to know which minds and how to set up an as-if mind so it isn't a repressive mind. And that could be a whole seminar. Yes. Yeah, I didn't really mean to speak about an as-if mind, but an as-if practice.

[21:11]

What's the difference? What's the difference? Maybe it's just that, that you don't pretend it's already a reality. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, of course. You were going to say something or we'll recap? Can I interrupt you a second? I hope that you don't just talk to me. We're in a kind of circle, so let's talk to each other as well. Yeah. When you said earlier that you think Buddhism might have tools, has tools to deal with trauma.

[22:24]

In what you said before, a lot of that was already included. When you said, in a simple way, I want to describe again bodily time and contextual time. In the practice week you mentioned, when fear arises, locate yourself in the mind of imperturbability. Yes. In a therapeutic context, when you use the body to work trauma, it's very important to locate yourself in your own bodilyness as the therapist.

[24:05]

And then to invite the client to also direct her perception there. ... All these involuntary movements and signals in the body heartbeat breathing and metabolism Show us signs of traumatization or frozenness.

[25:12]

And then the tool of what we could maybe call percept only or non-interfering. Then what? Very slowly there is a melting of this frozenness or dissolving of what is held tightly physiologically through this non-interfering mind. It must be exciting or satisfying for you as the therapist to see this happen.

[26:30]

You're in the midst of a little miracle. Yes. Now it becomes very clear that, for example, if the so-called activation, excitation is particularly large, that we can control our attention, for example, with the earwax, with the lute, with the osteoporosis, and then to influence the clients for surgery and to pay attention to us. And what's a help contextually is when the activation of trauma is particularly intense in the client, When as a therapist, I particularly emphasize to be fully grounded.

[27:56]

Then I have the ability to calm the physiological excitement in the client. With a little kundalini thrown in if I'm watching your gestures. Yeah. Anyone else? Oh, Kai. Yes, thanks. I want to give an example from my practice, which is more coaching than therapy. So I work with CEOs and managers and leaders How can I inform, sorry, educate the

[29:33]

attitudes or maybe mental postures in managers so that they can act more authentically or more in unison with themselves. Changing the thinking that's been present so far. In the late 90s I developed boxing coaching. Box coaching. And in and out of the box. It has something to do with the fact that I've been boxing for 30 years. Wow. I take managers into the boxing ring. This is sort of tough love.

[31:11]

Oh yeah, and I'm connecting this with what Siegfried said about the as-if. So I'm giving them tasks, what they want to achieve. Or I'm working with the inner team or the inner family. And for her goals, which she wanted to achieve, she set goals for herself, for example, for the brave one, for example, for the one who could do more, for example, for the one who had the greatest ambition. And for their personal goals, they can choose members of the team, for example, the courageous one, or the one who can be assertive, or the one, the assertive one, or the risk-taking one.

[32:12]

After the boxing, which is a new, unfamiliar kind of... for these people. This experience automatically changes the narrative, a new self-narrative about their team members and The boxing is a highly concentrated, I don't want to say mindful, but just concentrated

[33:33]

Action. Without self. Without self. Yeah. After... After the boxing, I'm inviting them to enter into the body to really feel the body. And then these previously discussed team members, say the courageous one, the question is where is that in the body? Where can you feel it? And after this experience in the bodily time, in the after-place time, I have a completely different possibility to act with people.

[35:01]

That means I experience with the manager, in the room, So in the boxing ring I'm creating the experience is like secret setting is as if Das kriege ich nicht so, musst du mir nochmal sagen. Nach dem Boxen, after the body time, der Manager handelt anders bei seinem Beruf.

[36:07]

They act differently in their professional context because they've had a different self-experiencing and therefore also a different self-narrative in their bodily time. And that allows a different kind of developing time, a different timeliness in Heidegger's sense. Right. Because they have a different way of experiencing themselves emotionally also through the experiencing of the box.

[37:17]

The neurobiology confirms that changes in the neocortex happen only When the body system and the limbic system send neurotransmitters to the neocortex. This is interesting. First thing for some. I said, I have two books. Please. I'll look at, they're in English? They're in German. Oh, well. Okay, first thing. Get some reading time together. Yeah, yeah. State of boxing. Yeah. So do the CEOs only box with you or box with each other?

[38:26]

Only with me. Only with you, yeah. Yeah. You might have trouble. You'd get two CEOs boxing with each other. I've been waiting for this question. Yeah. The principle of transference and counter-transference. It is important that I experience the body, the person It's important that I energetically feel the body, the person. to be able to this energetic field to react to the partner, the CEO.

[39:40]

There's a school of Zen in Japan which uses a kind of karate to practice. They sit and then they throw each other and then they sit again. I hope you call your work Boxing Out of the Box. Yes. This is good. When I was ten years old, I went to a summer camp that was eight weeks long. And my father wanted me to take boxing. So I took boxing. One of the few times I obeyed him, but I took boxing.

[41:03]

And I was 10 years old and the only person in my weight class weighed about 10 or 15 pounds more than I did. So I had about eight weeks of getting battered. And his name was Forrest. Forrest. Yeah, his name really was Force. I thought, oh, gosh. He's really Force. I forget his first name, but I remember his last name. You know the AOK Insurance Company or something like that?

[42:09]

They have approached us if we would do some kind of mindfulness training with their employees. They have lots of employees. So it's a debate within our Sangha in Europe here. Should we do this or should we not do it? And I don't, you know, if we do do it, I don't want to, I would like to do mindfulness in some depth. We haven't decided whether. So I don't know, should we call it mindful mindfulness or inner and outer mindfulness or I don't know, something because John Cabot Zins, he's a wonderful person, mindfulness is great, but it's not really going in the direction of practice so much as I would like it to.

[43:19]

Yes. I want to speak with you, Ulrike, about whether we could also see what you've described so beautifully in the following way. When you sit with a client, you enter into this bodilyness. I... This would be your description.

[44:25]

I would describe it that I direct my processes of attention to the processes of connectedness, to the bodily reality of connectedness, The connectedness with the earth through gravity and weight. The connectedness... Connectedness... with the air through the breath. These are bodily and real processes of connectedness. Yes. Rhythmical processes, heartbeat, etc., that can also be interpreted as processes of exchange.

[45:39]

Hoping that the client also might be able to become aware of this possibility of connectedness. And attention shifts from the excitement to... of freedom, liberty and all, The excitement caused by the memory of a traumatic experience, it shifts from there to the present reality of actual connectedness, weight, which I

[46:45]

Reality of commitment. Which allows a trust in this other reality. Go ahead. What you have said so beautifully now, I would say, is infused as information, implicitly infused as information in the context. What I also want to mention is what Roshi mentioned in the practice. When fear arises, go and locate yourself in imperturbability.

[48:04]

Because... Because there is an explicit and active invitation to the client to first go to a resource before you shift the attention to the excitement, And the experience is that only through that, something like absorption is even possible, or... I don't know what you've understood, but it's exactly what I've tried to say.

[49:38]

That is the resource, and I do it first and explicitly. Let me say that everything you said fits in exactly with my sense of the resource of bodily time. And I understood what you said through translation but also through your bodily gestures. But I think imperturbable mind is a rather rarefied and hard to reach experience. But I would say that the indisputable spirit is a very rare and special experience.

[50:55]

It's an experiential synonym for enlightening. And we can go there tomorrow. By the way, I don't know if you're happy. It was such an experience that I don't know what to say. It is clear to me that it's not the same when I speak about this resource or imperturbability and the resource I talk about is not the same. Yeah, it's just this shift when fear arises That's where you go. Yeah.

[52:01]

Yeah, good. That's good. Yeah. We call it a secure place? Safe place. Okay, great, thanks. Paul? I'm trying to listen to you. I am not a therapist, but I've been a client for many years. What's helpful for me is... to connect the skandhas with connectedness.

[53:13]

As long as I'm in a state of fear, I'm still in the fourth skanda, and that's still somewhat superficial. But there's a confusion of a fear in the fourth skanda with an existential fear in the second skanda. But when we bring that into connectedness, and I really like the German word mitgefühlt, which means feeling with compassion. For me it is

[54:25]

feeling connected with someone on the level of the second skanda. And then there's the experience of time, and for me there's a, it's important, there's the experience of, how do you want to say that, stop time? I want to call it stop time for simplicity. Yeah, I call it that too sometimes. Our stories are interrupted. When you can meet connectedness where all the stories are stopped. Stories. Stories. Yeah. Narratives. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I think there's a second chapter or fourth, but maybe it'll come up later.

[56:07]

Okay. I guess it's dinner time or evening meal time. But I think, you know, even though Miles Davis said, time isn't the most important thing, it's the only thing. Miles Davis said, time isn't the most important thing, it's the only thing. Kilometer Davis. Thanks. I would like to, I think, in In the context of this, talking about bodily time and contextual time, maybe it'd be good if I said something tomorrow about the, to actualize the in-betweenness of space.

[57:12]

Okay, in the context of this bodily time and contextual time, it would be good if I said something tomorrow about the in-betweenness of space. Okay? I mean, possibly. Thank you very much. What a fun bunch of guys you are and gals. You are a great bunch. A great bunch. A great bunch. A great bunch. Blumenstrauß von Menschen.

[58:04]

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