Well, in China I found another frog or toad. This one appeared not out of a chair but out of a stone. And it's a stone called chicken blood. You can see why. Which is a stone used for seals and things like Buddhist seals. And when I used to go swimming in Japan a lot, my favorite stone to find in the bottom was a little piece of the chicken blood stone. So I thought you might like to see this guy.

[01:04]

I let him sit on my computer nowadays. Anyway, so you might pass him around. And I found this in China, too. It's a card from a piece of wood, you see. You know, going through customs, I thought I had a bomb. And I couldn't... Did you have to open it? Did I have to? To open it? For the customs? No, I just... They saw I wouldn't have... Somebody else today noticed something funny.

[02:12]

Anyway, I found it in the store. I couldn't imagine carving all that, but it cost almost nothing. And I put the microphone in front of it and Ulrika thought it didn't look too good. But actually in one of the temples I went, they've carved this great big Buddha and part of the carving is he's sitting with a microphone. Yes, it's all cut into this wood and it's so much work. I can't even imagine it all and it cost almost nothing. And I had the microphone there, but Ulrike thinks it's kind of inappropriate. But I have to say, in China, in one temple, they made a sculpture of the last deceased abbot and they really depicted him in life-size with a microphone in his hand. Everything is amplified in China. Even if two people are sitting this close, they amplify.

[03:22]

So the greatest thing was when they finally carved this great Buddha-like statue of this guy's teacher, he's standing in the microphone as part of the sculpture. Anyway, does anybody have something you'd like to share with me or all of us about anything? I'd like to hear anything that doesn't make sense or that you didn't understand or that is some experience. Okay. in in berlin and looked at crystal and it's for me like a meditation with you like a dharma and the joy of the people it was wonderful and this i want to tell you and ask you if you stay there also if i saw it you want to say that in german yeah

[04:50]

I heard something like that already from a couple people in the seminar. And this happened while I was in Asia and then I went immediately to Austria when I came back. So I didn't really realize it was still up when we came back into Germany. But the other day when I realized it was still up, I planned to try to drive on Thursday to Berlin and then here, but it was a little too much. So I'm very sorry to have missed it.

[06:10]

It's just the kind of thing I like. So tomorrow I'm thinking that maybe we should wrap Ulrika. I deserve it probably. Or maybe we could wrap all of us from the inside. And we could wonder what we looked like but we couldn't see. That's how I felt not going to Berlin. Okay, somebody else? Yes? There's a question referring to our walking meditation in the morning.

[07:13]

Or it's a question referring to what is that what I am experiencing? For example, standing in front of those cows, there are several qualities. You know, there's one quality you can say, I know that's a cow and I know how it's feeling and I learned it by my parents and so on. But there are some other experiences. There's another... I would say it's something like energy of the cause. I'm used to that, meanwhile. But this morning, there was something with that cause.

[08:17]

It feels like an empty space. Just space. It was not empty, but space. And after that, I had a different feeling towards the group. Maybe, yeah. No? She knows my name, little Oscar. What was it? It was... I was... because of better sensitivity. The question is, can you tell me something about that, what I call, space? I try to say what I have to say.

[09:25]

So, to the line-up with the previous day, then I make surprising experiences. For example, when I was standing in front of the cow or when we were standing in front of the cow, there is one experience that is just what I know is good. The emotional question, and that's what I've learned, that's how it is when you stand in a dark room, and then a little bit of what I think is the perception of the aura, I've gotten used to it in the meantime, and then I have to say that I perceive it, and then in the morning I just have to an empty space, or space, I could call it. I had no idea what I was talking about.

[10:26]

As soon as I realized this, the group of people I was talking about was also a different sensitivity, sense, how do you call it? It was more sensitive. Well, let's hope that the seminar will answer your question. but it was you know there was those folks who walked by us plants they were out walking but they were clearly in social space

[11:33]

And then there was cow space. And then there was the car space. The cars drove through us but they were a little nervous because there was something unpredictable about us. Anybody who walks this slowly might jump in front of the car. So, yeah. So often when you You yourself are that kind of space. You, I think, feel that you're in the animals.

[12:36]

The animals suddenly look familiar in some other way. And while we're in here, those cows are still out there, standing there, and There's a cartoon. I don't know. What's that guy in America? I did kiss. He's American. Gary Larson. Gary Larson, who drops cows all the time. There's one where he shows these cows standing in the hall, standing, talking, discussing Plato or something. And there's one cow up the road away and he looks back and hollers, car, car! So they all get down on four legs.

[13:47]

So then the car goes by and then they all stand up and start talking about Play-Doh again. So I think these cows, these cows aren't going by, these cows. It took so long, they got nervous. Somebody else? Yes. I've been a little reluctant to bring this up because we are talking about paradise, about joy. The first noble truth, don't forget. I'm dealing a lot in my professional life, especially with one woman who is very much in the dark side.

[14:57]

And I am sure that the way she perceives it, and also the way I perceive it, that being on this earth is hell. So, what kind of... Yeah, I don't think it's the dual world, but, you know, how I have trouble with integrating that in myself, and also... people have perspective. To put it in German, it's a bit of a challenge for me to bring this up, because we see it as a point of paradise and joy, but I'm very busy with a woman who is very much on the dark side of this world. I have the feeling that she lives here, she moves here and there. Yeah, I know what you mean.

[16:07]

But she... got there by, you told me a little bit about it earlier, she got there by walking on the dark side. Or being forced to walk on the dark side. So, you know, I think all one can do, in my experience, is to you yourself walk for her in this other way where you do feel this is the pure land.

[17:10]

And you might, I mean, I don't know the situation and how unwell she is, but you might actually try to get her to practice walking meditation. But the idea of bodhisattva is that there's neither bright nor dark. You're just walking with people. So you can walk with her entering her kind of feeling and then still walk away out of that world of hers. I think if someone can even have a tiny taste of something else, and you can make them realize that this is possible all the time, that may be the kind of straw or hope that they can make the shift.

[18:44]

And your strength as a bodhisattva is to be able to walk freely on both sides. If you can't walk on her side too, she won't have confidence that she can walk out of the hell she's in. I mean, what I'm saying is pretty obvious, but doing it and hearing it and doing it, we have to keep trying. Something else?

[19:58]

Yes. As I perceive it, there's a lot of emphasis in the teaching on naturalness and simplicity and the true nature. But when I try to perceive myself when I'm sitting, I get the impression that the desires and the fear and the anxiety are totally natural and are like breathing. And the movement to get rid of it or to transform it at this point seems to me like becoming somebody who doesn't breathe or who doesn't eat. To me, at the moment, Zen seems like more of a cultural thing instead of a biological or natural thing. When I perceive this, with this teaching, it is about naturalness and simplicity,

[21:11]

true nature, I don't know how to say it in German, the true nature of self-discovery, but when I sit down, I have the feeling that the things that one actually wants to transform internally, that is, the fear, or passion, or desires, etc., are completely natural, and that I actually feel more like a... like a... Yes, Zen is a cultural thing. It's a man-made, human-made teaching. But so are your greed, hate, delusion and distractions cultural things. So, natural is actually not a word used in Buddhism much. Because there's nothing that's natural.

[22:19]

This is a natural hairstyle. Yours is a natural hairstyle. How do we say what's natural? I suppose if your parents have never washed or cut your hair, we could say that was natural. But if you had never washed or cut your hair, we wouldn't let you in here. Too natural for us. So you have to decide what you really want. So it's really not what's natural, but what you most deeply want.

[23:41]

And if you're satisfied with your greed, hate and delusion, please enjoy yourself. I wish I could be satisfied with mine. Doctor, you were going to say something? No. I saw your hand. Okay. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Yesterday you talked about the fact that every human being is a version of himself. And I would like to know how far I am responsible for others. Whether that is at all true.

[24:42]

A vision of yourself? Yesterday you talked about how each person is a version, each person I meet is a version of myself. And how does this relate to responsibility? In which way am I responsible for everything? Once I asked Suzuki Roshi in a Shosan ceremony, which is when you formally go up and present yourself in front of everybody with a question. And I said, how do I find my responsibility? And he said, under your own two feet.

[26:03]

So I'm still trying. When I said each person is a version, each of us is a version of, each person you see is a version of yourself. I was just pointing out something that's true and something that's a deep experience. If you have that experience, you'll find your responsibility. It's not about thinking all this, I should be responsible. That's the social world, social mind. That's important, but it shouldn't be the only way we define ourselves. Okay.

[27:20]

Yes? Last year in Roseburg, during the forum week, you were, as far as I understood, talking about being on the edge of existence, so to say, being on the edge and going forward, creating a system, and nothingness pre-existing. is that, let me say, standing on the edge and realizing I'm standing on the edge and being able to choose in what direction I go. I mean, when I go forward in creating existence, I must be able to choose, do I go left or right? Is that how you define freedom? Is that also connected with responsibility? I mean, when I can choose to go left or right, I somehow must be responsible for what I choose.

[28:22]

Deutsch. In the last years we have been living on the edge of existence and we create a new existence from every moment and nothing is pre-existing. I am only able to do what will appear later when I take the next step. And my question was, is this, so to speak, his definition of freedom? Because if I stand at a corner and Yeah, that's a good question. But, and I want to answer, respond for everyone who's practicing as lay people.

[30:01]

With a question like that, since we're not in a monastic situation or a situation where we're seeing each other regularly, so I can know you well enough to answer how this is in the particulars of your life. I can't really answer philosophically because there's a kind of mixture of levels here. So when you come to a point like that, which is a genuine question, you really just have to be patient and wait for the answer to come to you, for you to discover the answer through practice. Dogen talks about practice beyond Buddha.

[31:24]

And what he means by that is that practice is itself always changing. And the world itself is unpredictable. So So because Buddhism has this view, it doesn't try to be an overall consistent system. In other words, the practices are very specific. They're something you work with while you maintain your ordinary life. And mostly you're just following the customs of your culture.

[32:49]

And you don't have to If you're in a situation where practice says, how do I get over the edge and how do I take... You're not yet ready to know this because you've got several levels of description going on there. So the problem you're bringing to me is a problem I see in practicing seriously with you when I don't see you very often and you're having your own lives most of the time. How do you make sense of something that is on this level and you bring it to another level?

[33:51]

The words are the same, but it doesn't quite fit anymore. The best I can say is don't try to answer it, just keep it as a recognition and practice with it. Sorry, I can't say something more. Yeah. Maybe you answer the same.

[34:53]

For me, I think it's important as a question, not an answer. It's better to be a question. I mean, I've got my mind on it. Yes. Thinking of the edge again, and nothing is pre-existing. Nothing is on an ontological level pre-existing. When I look outside freezers, they've got their biological schemes, plans. Isn't that something pre-existing? John? Deutsch? I thought about the question that nothing really exists, ontologically, but it's something that exists.

[36:01]

When I look out and see trees, for example, trees have biological plans. Isn't that something that exists in us? So to speak, a plan that exists and that wants to be realized. And my question is rather, I don't expect an answer, but is it a sinful fact, a sensible question, or simply nothing? In your way of seeing. Yeah, yeah. No, this question, asking you, you're exactly right. You keep this as a question without trying to answer it. By the way, I'm embarrassed to have all this water and tea while you guys have none. But then someone gave me this water and tea and I'm embarrassed not to use it.

[37:04]

So, sorry. If any of you are real thirsty, just reach up and take my glass. Okay. The word truth in English is the same root as tree. Because just as you say, when you open the door, the tree was there yesterday and it's still there usually. So a tree is something you can trust. Particularly if you're hung from it. It's always there. But with practice we try on the word treeing.

[38:19]

We turn everything into a gerund. You keep looking at treeing. And like the cows, trees are also vast, slow beings. And The forest and a group of trees is a vast, slow being. And you can come also through that, even though trees are also something you can trust, to seeing that Everything is always in the midst of being created. So allow these questions to work in you, but don't try to answer them.

[39:20]

So gestatte diesen Fragen einfach in dir zu arbeiten und versuche nicht nach einer Antwort zu greifen. Neil, could you translate this since Ulrike can't see it so easily? Berge sind schon immer der Wohnort von großen Weisen seit der grenzenlosen Vergangenheit gewesen bis zur grenzenlosen Gegenwart. Wise people and wise have all the mountains as their inner chamber, as their body and earth spirit. Because of the wise person and the wise mountains appear. mountains from the ordinary world, and if you meet them in the mountains, if you are in the mountains, then the head and the eyes of the mountains are perceived differently.

[40:55]

If you look at one perspective, you see that the mountains flow. If you look at the other perspective, they don't flow. If you don't fully understand this, Does it all make sense to you? Not so much. It's just what I said this morning. And I thought of putting it up there because I thought maybe you should see that there's a certain language of speaking about these things that is reflected here and I tried to express this morning.

[41:58]

Let me go through it again with you then. Wise persons, that's you. And sages, that's Neil and Beate. All have mountains as their inner chamber. All have forest mind. As I said, when you bring forest mind to the forest, the forest starts to teach you. So when you bring mountain mind to the mountains, the mountains start to teach you. So when you live in that mountain mind, you're a sage. So mountains, you can say, mountain mind or the forest mind has been the abode of sages from the limitless past to the limitless present.

[43:08]

Now here again is the emphasis on the limitless present, where the edge is always, which means everything is an edge. The wise persons and sages don't live in the social mind. They live in forest mind as their inner chamber. Their forest mind is their body and mind. Because of this, mountains appear. Because of that, the cows appear to us, not the way they perhaps usually appear.

[44:31]

So sometimes in this forest mind or cow mind, you can really see a cow. You can feel every time you see a cow, you're seeing it for the first time. So, he says, because of this, wise persons, because of people who live in forest mind, forests appear. Mm-hmm. Now, in America, when the lumberjacks, the lumbering industry says, people and lumber first, animals and forests second.

[45:38]

Right. That's completely understandable why they feel that way. Their jobs, their family, everything depends on it. But if they really had forest mind, it would be very difficult to cut down a forest. So for them, forests do not appear to them. Mountains don't appear to them. But if they had forest mind, then mountains and forests appear. See, it's quite clear. Is it clearer?

[46:32]

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