I sometimes don't know which leg this toe belongs to. So we are walking around all the time in fact with a body image. But I can stand here and if I let go of the body image, my body, my subtle body is totally in contact. But as long as I have a body image, I interfere with that and I receive very little information from that contact. So in meditation, as long as that body image is there,

[01:02]

The way in which the subtle body speaks to you won't be heard. So one of the first practices is going into meditation, is dropping body and mind. So first you begin to have a lot of all kinds of things, both unconscious and non-conscious. And unconscious I would define as all that material, historical material and so forth, that is related to the primary self. And non-conscious is all that material which has no relation to anything. It just happens in your life.

[02:20]

And you stored it, but you didn't store it in relationship to repression or expression or anything. And so when you start to meditate, a lot of unconscious stuff comes up and a lot of non-conscious stuff comes up. It's just like you have other lives you hardly were aware of that passed through you as you were going through your daily life. And when you start to meditate, a lot of unconsciousness and also a lot of unconsciousness comes up, because you just went through it while you were living your life, and you never noticed it at all. And first you swim in this sea of associations. Your meditation practice gets better. All those begin to disappear and there's finally no conscious or unconscious or material or marks of any kind.

[03:26]

This isn't just an empty mind, a somatic mind in which things are pushed aside out of the mind to clear it. This is an underlying awareness, different from consciousness, which can't even be called awareness. and won't support conceptual thought. In other words, you have different layers. You have a layer of consciousness, we imagine liquid, and we have different layers of consciousness.

[04:29]

You have layers of consciousness which support conceptual thought. And more subtle, you have layers of awareness or consciousness that will support images and intention, but won't carry analytical thought. So one is more like a liquid with a lot of structure in it. One of the liquids, only certain things will float in it. And then you have a deeper sense even than that, where no forms at all will float in it. Everything is dissolved, not even dissolved. Beyond dissolved.

[05:36]

That's what the gone, gone, beyond understanding, beyond wisdom means. It's beyond even the stuff that's dissolved in it. Now that's your Buddha nature. We call it Buddha nature, but it's not a nature. But we have to call it something. That Buddha nature we share with everyone. And that is why I would say everyone is already a Buddha. And already enlightened. You begin to taste that more and more in that tissue. And again, what happens is we have a process of entering this and going back out. And again, what happens is we have a process of entering this and going back out.

[06:45]

It's almost like you go to the world and you're pushed back up and drawn by the karma which you've had in here. And you get distracted, I've got to do this, I've got to do that, your karma is drawn from the other. Man wird abgelenkt, Gedanken tauchen auf, man müsste dies und das tun und schon wird man herausgezogen. Ja, ich muss das verbessern und so weiter. Okay. Well, at some point there's a shift. Aber irgendwann gibt es eine Verlagerung. A turning around. Ein Wendepunkt. and you are always located here or here, and you go this way and you go back.

[07:56]

And that's the first real stage of enlightenment. Now, if you're too much always going back, that's called Zen sickness. And you get stuck in a lot of koans about people who are stuck in it. The interior hermit types. What you want, finally, is a situation where there's no arrows going any direction. This is a deeper sense of the gate of wishes. This is illustrated by a whole series of teaching diagrams that actually in the end look like that. And This, this, etc.

[09:17]

There is a way of teaching this. Is this the five ranks? Yes. Now you're staring in the face of the deep river. Now, mostly, we don't have an ocean of meaning. When you're coming from here, usually, And an object of reflection arises.

[10:17]

Or conscious, ordinary consciousness arises. Many possibilities arise. If I imagine myself in that state of being, I'm no longer in meditation or undifferentiated awareness, but I'm just present here and my subtle body is floating in the room with all yours. And there's an ocean of means, lots of possibilities. Nothing is defined, but it's all swimming. But still coming into that are karmic information coming in, And there's associations coming in, various kinds, intentions, vision.

[11:30]

They are entering this. I can feel them entering. And I have a sense of identity which is located in here, and I can move it toward that, or I can move it away. This has nothing to do with repression, I think, just where I choose to swim in here, because here there's no location, and there's a location here, and I can make the location more and more precise. I make it more precise, it's attracted. If I make it less precise, it's not so attracted. But if I make it more precise, I say, oh, time to go to work. And if it's more precise, then it's time to go to lunch.

[12:38]

And maybe after lunch I can make it a little clearer, but that doesn't have to be. Maybe we should just close the whole thing. Well, we're at a very practical point here. And that's a good point to be at. Because we've taken all of this what seemed like abstract teaching of form is emptiness and so forth. And reached a point where it's absorbed and included in practice or in the craft of our mind.

[13:41]

And if you understand the practice or if you do the practice, then eventually the teachings that led to the practice become clear again. At first you may not understand the teachings, but again, if it leads to a practice, then the practice will lead back to the teachings. Some of you had to leave to pick up children and so forth. And of course that's understandable. One person left and said that they were leaving because they'd gotten what they wanted coming here.

[15:02]

That's a kind of compliment. They came here and wanted something and they got it. But it always makes me feel a little funny when people say that. Because I wanted them to get what they didn't want. Or didn't know they wanted. Or were a little more out of control or not trying to control what they get. Anyway. But I'm glad to see you die-hards are still here, hanging in. Now, Martin asked me a question before lunch. And I think, if I may say so, that Martin is one of the people who is most influencing the psychological dialogue in Europe.

[16:34]

Through the many programs he's developing and the people he's training. And many of you are developing your own internal dialogue as therapists with clients or for yourself in your own life and with your friends. And all this goes toward developing an unseen language that's being more and more surfacing and being spoken in the cultures. So I know he feels these questions, Martin and those other of you who are therapists especially, feel these questions with a certain pain and poignancy. And I think one of the things Buddhism can offer to this dialogue, in psychotherapeutic dialogue,

[17:53]

is an emphasis on helping people through their understanding how mind and consciousness works. Or could work. No. I would like to just deal with this idea of ambivalence or multiple messages in the mind. One of the most basic practice in Buddhism is mindfulness. Now, again, the simplest frame of that is to bring your attention to something, to have an awareness in that attention, And not try to change what you're aware of.

[19:36]

Those are three elements. You bring your attention to it. There's a certain detachment or awareness in the attention. And you don't try to change what you're bringing your attention to. Again, the classic example is, oh, I'm angry. Now I'm more angry. Now I'm very angry. Will this last forever? Oh, now I'm less angry. Et cetera, et cetera. And this can be applied to anything, sadness or grief or whatever. It's like the observer too in a lucid dream.

[20:42]

Now what happens when you practice mindfulness of your breath or of an object of perception or an emotion? As you develop a background mind, a mind that is more stable than the mind that's angry, or more continuous than the mind that's in grief, say. Doesn't mean you're not completely and necessarily angry or grieving. But that begins to feel like it's occurring in a bigger space or occurring in a foreground mind while a background mind is present.

[21:47]

So, I mean... So I think what you have is, when you have ambivalence, you don't just have one being arguing with another one. And I'm keeping the model simple here. You actually have two minds which are ambivalent. Because it's not just two thoughts on the same level.

[23:08]

It's one thought that brings up a whole lot of associations and a whole field that goes with it. And another thought brings up another field of association. And those two fields And everything they drag with it is in conflict. That's my, anyway, experience. So if you have, you know, those pictures where you get that... where you can see that... You can see it shift. You can see it shift like that. So what you usually have is a mind like that, which is one view, and you have a mind like this, which is another view. Actually, you're shifting back and forth between the two.

[24:20]

So when you're dealing with two different thoughts, it's not very hard. It's just a decision. Shall I do this? Shall I do that? That's not so difficult. But when the whole context of your mind shifts and you're this kind of person and then you're that kind of person and then you're this kind of person, it's very difficult to know what to do. Because the green person knows nothing about the blue person, or very little. And the blue desire brings everything, this blue with it, and it's very hard to think in terms of green, because you're in the context of the whole mind.

[25:21]

Now, it may be there's ten of these things going back and forth, fluctuating. Now, the way Buddhism deals with this is to say, create a mind separate from these two. So you begin to create a background line that is present. First, it's rather primitive. It's just by observing it sometimes you agree, sometimes you're not. But eventually, it becomes more and more perfect. And the example I always use is the woman who's pregnant who is aware of the baby all the time but does her daily things. So if you develop a background mind, it allows you to absorb these choices much more easily.

[26:31]

And whenever you're eventually, this surrounds this, But whenever you are practicing your mantra, or following your breath, or practicing any kind of mindfulness, the byproduct, the deep product of this is you develop a more inclusive and background mind. And this background mind is then really what is the first stage of meditation. And fully developed, it's very little different. It's just the picture on the other side.

[27:33]

It's just a fully developed version. Well, if you still understand it. I like this one. This is just the background line which develops around the economy. Eventually it becomes your original line, a resource line. and actually is from the other side, you come toward me. Okay, does that make sense? Now some people have asked when we'll finish. If I don't fall off the back of this, We can finish anytime you like right now, or three, four o'clock maybe.

[29:01]

So, are there any more questions? Yes. Yes. And she can translate for me. Okay. My question is related to these two, Ocean of Awareness and Ocean of Meanings. I would like to know whether Roger's opinion on awareness is already connected to words, or whether it is a state that is without words. My question is this awareness state, which is like pre-verbal or non-verbal, and then through being aware of something, we name it, and then we give it meaning. Is that the process? Yes. It's both pre-verbal and non-verbal.

[30:20]

It's more accurately non-verbal. Because when you start giving form or naming, you actually leave it. Giving it a name is not the same as giving it a meaning. How do you think it's the same? Say I have the awareness of a heartbeat. I give it a name and say, oh, that's a heartbeat. And I can give it a meaning by saying, well, that's anxiety or what so ever. Yeah. As soon as you, if you're in a state of meditation, you can be aware of your heartbeat. Or not aware of it. But you can be aware of it at a level of a kind of noticing. Or feeling. Or feeling. As soon as you name it, that's my heartbeat, unless you're quite yogically skillful, you lose that state of mind right away.

[31:40]

And you go out of awareness into consciousness. And consciousness, again, the root in English is to divide, to separate. And the classic example I give again is that when you can't count your breath in zazen, it's because awareness hasn't been taught how to count. So you're beginning to educate your... interior consciousness when you begin to be able to count your breath. But your exterior consciousness is educated by your school system and your parents and so forth. This is old stuff for many of you. But it's very important that we get this clear so it becomes our own inner vocabulary.

[33:00]

So when you shift from the karmic side from the right side to the left side you're developing interior consciousness in contrast to educating exterior consciousness. So... When you... When you're making... Even though you're making internal decisions about what kind of person you are, comparing yourself to others, nobody can hear you doing this. I'm thinking, you know, Martin's got a much prettier shirt on than I do.

[34:01]

Martin can't hear me saying this. I wonder where he bought it. Excuse me? I wonder where he bought it. But although he can't hear me, this is external consciousness. This is an English word. And he answers. Yeah, maybe he does. You can tell me now. Now, when you begin to awaken vestigial consciousness, That are not occurring in these externalized categories. You're beginning to develop what I call interior consciousness. Now, this is, in the koan, this is spoken about as dragging gates or snooze gates.

[35:33]

Or the essential pivot. And pivot is a little different way of thinking about it because, in other words, You have this area here of no form, right? I love that. I couldn't have said that Friday night. You know we have this no form, right? Now I can get away with saying that. And there's, when you shift to this, you go through a gate. And when you shift from ocean meaning to a particular, you go through another gate. And those gates can be understood as something you step through. Or can be understood as something you pivot, like pivot a situation to change your mind.

[36:36]

In fact, we do that kind of thing often. We are in one state of mind, we can't get out of it, so we make our friend angry at us, which pushes us into this state of mind. The friend doesn't know why they get angry at us, but really we tell them to get from here to there. And then our friend says, why was I so angry at her? I mean, for no reason, but actually you were being used to hit the other person. So those gates... from here to here and here, both as pivots and gates, are one form of Buddhist identity. Because how you made this transference has a lot to do with what you bring from here to here.

[37:53]

And that is defined by a kind of who you are. So I'll look as far as this gate. The Buddha is this gate. And the Buddha is no gate. Something like that. So in this koan, I mean in this sutra, you can see as representing different levels of a kind of identity. Yeah, actually, Subhuti's not in this at all. Usually, anybody, you don't need to know. So partly I'm answering your question, Peter, and Eric's question. Okay, anything else? Yes?

[39:11]

When you develop this going through the gates, does this influence then my karmic personality identity that you have on the right side? So to put it very bluntly, what do I care to develop that skill just for luxury, or will it then influence my life to go back and forth? If I had to choose between the two, if I had to choose between your two choices, I would choose just for luxury. Because my feeling is it's great to influence your life, but really that's not very important. When you're caught up and struggling, it's important to influence your life. But really, you do it for the sheer joy of being alive. And as soon as you... I mean, this... The practice of wishlessness, the gate and seed gate of wishlessness, is not to turn an object of perception into either or alternatives, or into a goal.

[40:49]

Again, of course, sometimes we do, but it's also nice to have a state of mind which doesn't, and that state of mind becomes a gate to the right side of the picture. To the left, yeah. He almost got it all wrong. And we go back and forth through that gate. So you actually develop a kind of gate that first leads you to the left side, and then you go from the left side back to the right side through that same gate. And the gate of the signless, seed gate of the signless, is to not give form or name to any object of perception.

[42:08]

So you leave it, as I said, with all its tentacles, without tying it down or naming it. Now the idea of your karmic body and your merit body. Oh dear, really, really, should I say something? Okay. I'll just put this out there. Your current body arises through your history and genetics and so on.

[43:55]

Your mind body or lived body or bliss body. It's generally called bliss body. We can call it now a mind body. is generated through how you live your life. And our experience is it will not have the self-organizing qualities of a body unless it's generated through unambiguity

[45:03]

or good or meritorious action. You can generate various kinds of bodies that may be very destructive or very creative or something, but they will tend to disintegrate. They won't be self-organized. So a blissful body tends to arise through good actions or merit. That means that this body is made by you through your consciousness. And it doesn't arise primarily through your history or culture, etc. And it is an interactive one I am interactive with your situations.

[46:35]

And that's partly because it has no fear. So... So that it... This karmic body tends to separate you from situations, separate you from people and kind of kill you. Your karmic body slowly drives you down. But your bliss body or mind created body But the bliss body or the body created by the spirit, also called the reward body, is what's reincarnated either in this life or the next life, if you believe in reincarnation.

[47:41]

But your bliss body or mind-created body But the blissful body or the body created by the spirit, also called the reward body, is what's reincarnated either in this life or the next life, if you believe in reincarnation. And you're always passing this body to your friends, etc. So in a way, this body is what we are always giving to others, and even as we die, we give away. So your karma is part of it, but it's not... it doesn't determine its shape.

[48:59]

Your compassion for others and your enlightenment determine its shape. So then you can make a decision as you go through one of these gates whether you go through with compassion or you go through with anger or you go through with whatever. So here's where mindfulness turns into kindfulness. Because it becomes more and more easy to then have love or compassion or a feeling of connectedness be the liquid that carries your personality and carries the direction of your life.

[50:07]

It doesn't mean you get rid of your karma, but it's constantly being recontextualized. So this is why psychology for Buddhism is a late stage of a recontextualization process that occurs through enlightenment. So this is why psychotherapists and Buddhists can work together. Because psychotherapists take care of all the uncontextualized, no, unrecontextualized karma. where everybody's at.

[51:20]

And the Buddhists take care of all the enlightened, recontextualized karma where nobody's at. So it's a hopeless, one-sided cooperation in which the only good work is really being done by the therapist. But a few of us are thrashing away at emptiness. I kid you not. Okay. Yes. Did I understand you correctly that after my death I can pass this on?

[52:25]

Well, I know that you can pass it on during your lifetime. And I know you can pass it on very powerfully at the moment of death. But whether you pass it on into another lifetime is a mystery to me. It's what some Buddhists teach. And it's what most popular Buddhism teaches. But I have not died yet in this memory. And I have no experiences that I could definitively say are previous lives.

[53:30]

And my responsibility and commitment as a Zen teacher is to only teach what I've experienced. So I don't teach reincarnation. I don't know anything about it. If I do have some experience of it, I'll tell Martin and he'll invite me back next year. And we could have a big seminar, Baker Roshi shows and tells previous lives. At present, I don't know. But if I'm around floating in astral space to receive your life, I'll be happy to receive it. My daughter, when she was pretty young, four or five or six, somewhere in there, She's now 30.

[54:54]

She remembers, and she tells us, she remembered at that time, now I don't think she remembers, that she clearly had a vision of seeing Virginia, my wife at the time, and myself, and that she chose us. She knew nothing about Buddhism and theories of reincarnation. But I've had experiences that could be interpreted that way, that are full of images, but I have so many images and they could all be so many things. And reincarnation has nothing to do with the basic teaching of Buddhism. Buddhism is true whether there's reincarnation or not. At least as far as I'm concerned. Okay, something else? Yes. Yes. If I come back to the desirelessness, we are careful.

[56:15]

On the one hand, I understand why we are not desireless, or should be, if so-called good wishes should have come. I don't think I understood that correctly. That hopelessness, the level of hopelessness, because we are more careful, only good wishes can actually come. Why is that hopelessness? I have a question about the wishlessness. If we are practicing mindfulness, so on out of this practice only good desires arise anyway. So why then practice wishlessness? Only good desires arise? Yes.

[57:16]

Oh. Well, you're much luckier than I am. When you are careful to everything, then you won't have a bad wish or something like that. Absolutely. I didn't understand that. Well, whether you have good or bad wishes, the good wishes lead to a certain amount of merit or good karma, shall we say. But it doesn't lead to the realization of emptiness. And that you have to find the gate of wishlessness or the gate of... So it's again like this like, dislike and neutral.

[58:24]

And the neutral state of mind is the deepest. Now one thing I want to say about this developing a background mind is when you develop a background mind and you have two foreground minds in conflict, it's in the background mind that intentions can exist simultaneously with the conflict as the two foreground minds. Now, not necessarily thoughts, but a deep intention, an intention to resolve these two minds, say, can be present simultaneously with the conflict. But the intention moves through a different liquid of the mind than the thoughts do.

[59:29]

Yeah. I noticed that for the first time, here with my eyes open, I am more clear. And I basically have a way to get to this point in my life. So, as a new woman, I asked myself the question, if this is in the past, and it doesn't come in between. The room between my eyes and the floor, which I can't see clearly, disappears.

[60:31]

I have a practical question about meditation. It's the first time here that I meditated with open eyes and it's quite a new experience for me which I haven't had before. It's like a connection I feel to the space around or to the room. But the breath interferes with that experience. So it's like almost the space in front of me becomes more and more dense and sort of the breath interferes and I'm just wondering whether this is the right technique. I think these kind of things happen. And you just get more and more familiar with them. And mostly don't try to do anything about them. All of that is part of learning the craft and vocabulary of interior consciousness.

[61:44]

And when you first enter that territory, it's sometimes exaggerated by a mixture of exterior and interior consciousness getting mixed up together. So the process of becoming still is not just like silt coming out of a liquid, It's like you're sorting two kinds of liquid out and separating them and distilling them. Hmm. Well, I think we've actually done a pretty good job of looking at the Heart Sutra.

[62:56]

Much better than I thought we could. And it would be nice if we had a little more time to settle down in this and have a little less intellectual activity. And to feel this more just in the beauty of it rather than the craft of it, the beauty of it as well as the craft of it. Because through feeling the beauty of it, maybe that's the most powerful way that it will recontextualize our own becoming.

[64:00]

So at least let us sit for a little while, a few minutes. And if you keep the sutra card near you, maybe near the end we'll chant once. Yes. Last question. Will you come back next year? If you promise to come back. So there's at least two of us. And Martin invites me again. So now you have some of the recipe for dropping mind and body.

[66:34]

And entering the ocean of awareness, which is the teacher of all the Buddhas. And you have begun to understand the gates which can transform your life and actually the life of our whole culture.

[67:36]

the gates of meritorious and compassionate action, when we arise not just from our karma, but also from the dharma mind, the dharmakaya, from the non-dual awareness which is the teacher of all Buddhas. Thus Avalokiteshvara looks on the world and on each person. And this is the teaching of the Prajnaparamita Hridaya Sutra. Now I think you understand better Shariputra's question.

[71:13]

How should I train in order to lead a life of perfected wisdom? Satsang with Mooji

[72:24]

Thank you for watching. Vajrasattva sikhi bhageni pithesan mirho sikhi sakha mi sakuha. Vajrasattva sikhi bhageni sikhi sakha mi sakuha. Omyo jinnai shiho roshi, yakuho roshi, jinbo kosho, metsu no uchi, yakuho toku imo, shotoko bodai satare, hanyahara mita, koshinbo keihei u,

[74:30]

Satsang with Mooji Nya-ra-mi-ka-ze-tai-chin-chu-ze-tai-yo-shu-ze-mu-cho-shu-ze-mu-to-do-shu-no-jo-bi-sai-to-shin-je-su-fu-ko-ko-set-su Nya-ra-mi-ka-shu-so-pu-set-su-shu-va-su-ya-te Maha Prajnaparamita Herat Sutra Bodhisattva Avalokiteshvara.

[75:45]

Prashniradvamitra Tathagatam skandhas. They are free from their own self and are free from all suffering. [...] I'm sorry. I don't know what to say. foreign foreign

[76:58]

Good timing. Well, thank you all very, very much. I left a three-month practice period at Creston Mountain Zen Center in which the schedule is designed to really cut you off from the world. And slow time down, so one day is like several. So I somewhat reluctantly left. but joyfully too if I'm allowed to have two simultaneous emotions. and I can't think of any better way to re-enter the world than to join you guys for this weekend and I have one more weekend of teaching at Sinsheim near Heidelberg

[79:06]

And then I go back into practice period. But it's been a great pleasure to be here with you for this week. I can feel practice period going on inside me, and you guys helped me continue it. And I hope I see you all again soon. And if I have a choice, I prefer in this life rather than the next. Yes. You wanted to mention some unformed question you had on the way to here.

[80:29]

Oh, yes. That was just the question pretty much close to what Peter brought up, is who and what are the levels of being and identity that are presented in this sutra. And how do those levels of identity and being interact with the two levels of existence and the world presented in the sutra? The differentiated and the undifferentiated. And how do those two clusters of questions relate to our Western psychological identities? So those are the questions I was asking myself as I prepared by reading the sutra, this meeting with you.

[81:40]

And I feel I made some progress in my own understanding. Thanks to you guys. And always thanks to Ulrike, who is my teammate.

[82:06]

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