So in the 51st fall, I have to guess how to get that together. Just say Heikigan Roku. No, but there's a name for it. You know it too. Blaue, smakte, felswand, samroku is the same. So it also means shoyoroku. No, no. Is that not Zen? No, Heikiganroku it is. Oh, my God. See, he dragged her kicking and screaming into Zen. Heikiganroku. Heikiganroku. That's the Blue Cliff Records. Case 51. Hmm? I can really feel that, Marie-Louise, it is really difficult to remember these names.

[01:22]

Yeah, for me too. I have them written on my hand. In that case. It says, if there's, yeah, if I can remember. If there's any trace of right and wrong, in one's mind, the essence, one's essence of mind,

[02:25]

falls into disorder, disappears into disorder. Okay, so these are all fellows from the 8th and 9th century in China, which is quite a long time ago when you look at European time in the 8th and 9th century. But I would say contemporary China is quite a long time ago in terms of our way of thinking. Nowadays China or recent China. But the 8th and 9th century in China is quite modern. It's quite close to us. That's why their poetry speaks to us in a way which poetry in Europe in the 8th and 9th century might not. So it's a strangely modern period that our modern period is conjoined with.

[03:57]

Okay, so don't think it's far away, long away. Okay, so these guys are talking about something. What are they talking about? If there's the slightest... if there's a trace of right and wrong, the essence of mind is lost and disordered. Okay. So they're pointing to some kind of mind within mind. Now, I would say that if we're going to bring this wisdom teaching from this other modern period,

[05:29]

into the West, the most likely place for it to flower is in psychotherapy. It may influence, and it has influenced psychology. But it will more likely flower in psychotherapy because in therapy you're acting through these things. So if you want to bring this mind within mind into Western psychotherapy, and it's probably the most, I would say it has to be, the most dramatic and powerful thing that could be done,

[06:53]

to create a dharma therapy. Maybe we could have non-systematic systemic dharma therapy. That's super non-systematic. Mark Twain said he knew somebody who could only recognize people through the bottom of a wine glass.

[07:57]

Oh, is that you? Karma dissolving. Add to the title. Oh. We have to leave something to teach. If it's all in the title, you have nothing to do. Thank you. So if we're going to try to bring the no-mind of mind into our lives and into our work, We have to find some way to embody it.

[09:12]

Yeah, I said, I don't know, maybe I think I said it, Wiesloch. That probably in all cultures falling in love is pretty much the same experience. But we know that the institution of marriage is different in every culture. And the way how families treat each other is different in every culture. Maybe that'd be a good way to start the family therapy. Okay. And original mind may, I think, is pretty much the same in every culture. But consciousness is different.

[10:29]

But just as falling in love needs to be embodied, Or at least yearns to be embodied. So also original mind yearns to be embodied. Needs to be embodied. And needs to be embodied in a way consistent with the fullness of original mind. Consistent with original mind. Just as falling in love is often unsuccessfully embodied in marriage. Thankfully, not always.

[11:46]

Okay. But original mind, if we embody it in our culture, it's like embodying it in a bad marriage. Am I not saying so funny? I'm just speaking the truth. Okay. The other possibility is to cry.

[12:47]

That's necessary. That's very necessary. Okay. Maybe we should pass out your book now. What is the title of your book? And your wife's book? Okay, so then we can look at, maybe for our own benefit, how some people have tried to embody this original mind. You can see it. I suggested you name things differently. Like the entire universe is the true human body.

[14:04]

Ningen, which is the word for person in Japanese, means person space. But it literally means actually person in betweenness. But in reality it means the in-betweenness of the person, the person-in-betweenness. The gen part, nin gen, nin means person, and gen means, is the same character for ma. So nin from nin gen means person, and gen means the same as ma. And Ma is a character which is a gate, and in the middle of the gate shining through is the sun or the moon. So it literally means the person who is also a gate which the sun or moon shines through.

[15:04]

It's easy to forget those things. Even when you build them into the language. Like, as I pointed out before, I guess in Japanese the entryway is called the genkan. And that means mystery gate. But we forget in English that the entry to the house is called the entrance. So we forget what a threshold is. So in any culture, even if you name the thing, it's mystery. You forget it.

[16:06]

So we could say wisdom practice is the craft of reminding yourself of the obvious. The obvious that we so often forget. So this word ma has become a subject of philosophical discussion these days. And in Japan too, because they forgot its meaning in Japan. But if we take someone like Zeami, Motokyo, he lived from Japan. 1346 to 1463.

[17:37]

Something like that. Yeah, in that period. So that was not so long ago, but a while ago. And he was the founder of no theater. And he's concerned with no action. It's a nice pun for us in English. We can't call it nine-third theater in Germany. No, no, no. Anyway, he said something, let's see if I can remember. He was the founder of the Noh.

[18:40]

He said that spectators often say the most enjoyable part of a Noh play are the moments of Noh action. And in the middle of the acting and dancing and miming, there are intervals. You can feel little intervals. And these are moments of no action. Und das sind die Momente, wo es keine Handlung gibt. But in these moments of no action, the actor can't abandon, says Siamese, the actor can't abandon the heart-mind.

[19:51]

In diesen Momenten, sagt er, kann der Schauspieler He cannot abandon what? The heart-mind. Isn't it the same word in Japanese? Heart and mind? Yes. Okay, so the word shin. acting means heart, mind. Now, this thinking, Buddhist thinking, has come into Japan and changed even the way they write the characters, making more space in the characters. So the mind is the heart mind.

[20:58]

But it doesn't mean either. It means the relationship, of course. In the Sandokai, it starts out the mind of the great sage of India. is intimately communicated. Intimately communicated means something like the feeling between many and one. I'm trying to give you a feeling of this in-betweens. There's many people here. And there's one person here. And I don't try... Actually, we're somewhere in between many and one.

[22:10]

So being here is feeling both the many and the one simultaneously. And it doesn't mean you can grasp either. You have to be able to sort of stay in a non-graspable place. So intimately communicated means the lineage. Say my relationship to Siegfried and Siegfried's relation to Peter, say, we each may try to tell each other something. Now we're not playing the game of telephone.

[23:25]

Do you know the game of telephone? We used to tell somebody... Here we try to tell it in a way that it doesn't get confused. But more importantly... The intimacy of it is the way all three of us understand it, and in slightly divergent ways. If it's just the Buddha's way, or just... I never get the pronunciation of anything right. My way or Siegfried's way or Peter's way would not be sufficient. What happens in the inadequacy of our three ways Which might just be less than either of our single way.

[24:52]

The whole, the three together, or just each one? The whole together might be less than any one of our individual ways. But there are three ways, have space in it for creativity, or something like that. So, I'm just trying to... Oh, that's nothing. OK, so spectators often find moments of no action the most enjoyable. But the actor must have the unwavering strength of the heart-mind. To bring aliveness into these no actions.

[26:04]

But these moments of no action should not be obvious. They should not be obvious to the audience. If they're obvious to the audience, then they're a form of action. The before and after are no action. should be connected by mushin, which means no mind, and the intent of that no mind, like intention, should not even be obvious to the actor himself.

[27:26]

Okay. What? He does it, but he doesn't even himself at that moment know what he's doing. We want to turn these things into a thing. We want to turn emptiness into a thing. We want to understand emptiness. You know, there's some famous basketball player in America. I always forget his name. And he's a big black guy as usual. And he's famous for being up in the air like Michael Jordan. Thank you. And doing all kinds of strange things. And some newspaper person said to him, how do you figure out these moves you do in the air?

[28:53]

He said, man, I don't figure it out. If I figured it out, my opponents would figure it out. So what we have here, with Muxin, this is the same Mu as in the koan, does a dog have a Buddha nature? We have no, or none, perhaps, part of mind. What it's emphasizing is something happening in between.

[30:08]

So a more contemporary example. Ozu Yasujiro. Ozu Yasujiro. Who's a contemporary Japanese filmmaker. He intersperses his narrative with shots of nature, quiet scenes, of maybe a chair. He intersperses the narrative line with images which have nothing to do with the story.

[31:11]

They don't advance the narrative line. They have nothing to do with character development. This is somehow a symbol of the mind of the actor. No, it's nothing to do with the character development. And it has nothing to do with cause and effect. And it has nothing to do, and sometimes it's in contrast to cause and effect. So movies are held together normally by a narrative line and cause and effect all the way through. And the sound of the next scene in contemporary movies often starts before this scene is ended.

[32:22]

You know what I mean, right? I mean, you're in a scene and you hear cars honking, and a moment later it switches to something else. And contemporary American movies are extraordinarily well made, it seems to me. But I find almost all of them boring because they stick to a narrative line so thoroughly that you have no space in the movie. Everything, every scene advances in the movie. So Ozu emphasizes these intervals which have nothing to do with the narrative lines so strongly that these intervals of no action almost become the foreground.

[33:51]

And the narrative line almost becomes like overtones. So it's an extraordinary, often in his movies, meditative and poignant experience. Poignant. Touching. experience. I love your great poignant, what's that? Nobody knows what poignant is. Though I mean even in English we don't know what it is. And what's strange, I find, if you're a spectator of one of these movies, is that the intervals of no action start bringing you into the movie.

[35:11]

Because you're sitting there and you're no action. And the overtones of the movie start having another reality. So the foreground of the movie somehow comes out and pulls you in the theater into the movie. Andy Warhol carried this to an extreme. I was once watching one of his movies. It went on forever. And they had some guy named Taylor Mead. I think his name was Taylor Mead. Some kind of homeless gay poet who I knew slightly in New York.

[36:39]

And he was playing Tarzan on the piano. on the Watts Towers in Los Angeles. He was swinging around with this kind of weak body. One of Taylor Meade's poems is, ants, get out of my soup. I am not Albert Schweitzer. So this guy is playing Tarzan. And he's swinging around this rope that he kept not being strong enough to hang on to.

[37:50]

And the movie went on and on. And at some point they started running it backwards. And... Four people to my left got up to leave. And one was a Chinese woman. And as they walked by, I said, giving up, huh? And the Chinese woman said to me, Philistine, the lobby is more interesting. And she said to me, Philister, the background is very interesting. That was worth the whole movie. She got the point.

[39:03]

So how do we bring this no mind? into psychotherapy without the client getting up halfway through the hour and saying, Philistine, the waiting room is more interesting. We have to get them to the point that they think, my life is actually much better than I thought it would be.

[40:04]

But I do think from, like Ozu's films, we can catch something. And I think Christina expressed that yesterday when you said that sometimes while someone's speaking, you just find yourself going into your body and being present to what they're saying. We have a word actually, Sokure, in Japanese Buddhism. Which means detached but not separate from. That means... So I got the feeling you were completely present to what this person was saying.

[41:23]

But your body was in another kind of space than his or her body. And this might be the kind of space that both Ozu and Zeami are speaking about. Well, you don't even know what you're doing when you're doing this. But some unwavering strengths of the heart and mind are bridging this space, are holding this space. Mm-hmm. Anyway, that's an attempt at trying to speak about this.

[42:28]

Tendai, which is one of the more philosophical of the Japanese Buddhist schools, has a word which means middle awareness. The awareness that's in between emptiness And temporary, temporal existence. Transient existence. transient exist or temporal, temporary exist. Okay. Now you may... Yeah. Now, if you want to bring this kind of mind within mind into psychotherapy, which is what Chinese Zen tried to bring into an ordinary dialogical process,

[44:19]

so that the turning word of baijiang could free you from 500 lifetimes of fox-lobber karma. It's an effort like they made. You will have to make an effort to bring this into yourself and then into your therapeutic work. But the craft, not just wisdom, but the craft of doing this we each have to develop for ourselves but we can learn from what they did. You yesterday used, or the other day used the image of the screen in the movie.

[45:38]

And I could ask, you know, when you look at a book, when you read a book, what is the continuity of the book? Okay. Well, I mean, for most of us, reading a book, it's the narrative line you're reading. Yeah, if you make an effort and want to find another response, you could say, yes, actually, the continuity of the book is the page after page. And that sounds, yeah, the words are all chopped up into pieces. So actually, page after page, That's what the continuity of the book is.

[46:59]

But that's, again, saying pretty much the same thing. The screen is more real than the movie. I'm drawing a book. So, yes, the pages are in a sense the continuity of the book.

[47:59]

But that's conceptual and philosophical. And there's all these words. Continuity is not the words. And the continuity is not the paper. Continuity is the space between the words and the paper. In fact, you're constantly reading the words and actually feeling them coming out of the page. And as you turn the pages, you're in a kind of intimacy between the words and the papers. And there's not only the space between the words in the paper, But there's the space between the words.

[49:13]

And there's also the space in the corridors that's running. You see that when you look at a page sometimes? There's corridors. So the more you open yourself to the space, Space is the wrong word, maybe in-betweenness. Which is what the word ma means, in-betweenness. Because you begin to feel these intervals or this sea of silence. Which the potentiality of mind and of karma is always pushing the surface. asking to be embodied in the next word, but simultaneously flowing in the corridors between people and between, etc.

[50:17]

So, Anyway, this is something one has to come into, I think, a kind of conceptual understanding of. But not a conceptual understanding that describes, but a conceptual understanding that points. and gives permission at opening yourself to an experience of no action or no mind or in-betweenness of no action No action in between this.

[51:39]

No mind. The time which has not yet come. Like that. Yes. I would like to understand what you just said. I mean, what I... can feel is the relationship between what the poet or the person who wrote it wanted to say, even if nothing was. The feeling behind the words and the words that she put there. I don't understand the relationship to the material, to the paper, and to the words there, and to the space. Yeah, but of course I'm just speaking metaphorically. So in this, in the narrative line of one's own personal story,

[52:40]

or the activity that we're doing now there's a lot of spaces in that and the more you're aware of those spaces as of a continuity as the page is the continuity under the words in the book the more you have, let's say, first a conceptual sense of that, which can open you into an experiential sense of that, that becomes more and more the it starts to be a background of everything. And as it starts to be alive, it interpenetrates and surrounds and connects everything. And for a realized person, it becomes the foreground.

[53:55]

Now, the experience of that is another gate. I can't describe what it's a gate to. But let's just say a different sense of life. For example, in this little thing at the bottom half of that page. Where there's this intentional context and then manifestation and dissolution. the more you can actually feel that. It's like all your karma, or your karma appears in that. In new combinations. And also disappears. And what you experience is a flow of insights rather than knowledge.

[55:45]

I mean you may have noticed that sometimes when you're practicing meditation, Suddenly, for no reason, insights pop up. You weren't thinking so much, you don't know where they came from. They just pop up. And sometimes they're quite relevant to what you plan to do that day. Or what you might have to talk about in the seminar. But you can't think your way to them. You have to let Mushin help you. And so when

[56:52]

motion becomes foreground and not background. In betweenness becomes foreground and not background. More and more everything sparks recognitions or insights. And those insights actually arise from your karma. And resolve your karma. And you have an infinite variety of karma. That's what the Alaya Vijnana means. And didn't we talk last year about how you roll the Alaya Vijnana forward so it's ahead of the editor? It's before the editor.

[58:12]

We drew pictures, didn't we, of the Lajna and Manas and things? Well, this Lajna is, we could say, is kind of not just... You're unconscious, but kind of infinity of non-conscious. Unmanifested karma and activity. See, what happens is, Karma is made by intention.

[59:14]

Now, the edges of this are fuzzy, but let's just say the central idea is karma is made by intention. Consciousness is where intentions are generated. Consciousness is a subject-order mind, subject-object mind. A wisdom mind is a non-dual or non-subject-object mind. So what happens when your karma comes up in consciousness? It's almost always reified. Reinforced, strengthened.

[60:27]

So let's just say again a simple equation. Consciousness made karma. When your karma comes up in consciousness, it tends to be reinforced by the consciousness. So every time you rethink your problems, etc., they get more concretized. If you can think clearly enough about it with some detachment, and you can build in antidotes and actions within your consciousness that change it, But this is like doing it with a bulldozer.

[61:36]

But if you can do it in this intentional context, Where there's appearance and dissolution. Your karma appears in myriad forms. And your karma then really becomes the activity of your life. It's not constantly forced into repetitive patterns. It can arise and disappear. Arising as insights or some kind of... some kind of thinking, awareness.

[62:52]

So in this image I'm saying we're not getting free of our karma in some kind of linear sense. Cutting your karma off nor cutting your karma off. But you're constantly resolving your karma. Mm-hmm. So that's what gives the sensation that you're having a series of insights. A series of knowings. So even though flowers fall within detachment,

[63:54]

There's still sadness and acceptance. So here you're really living your karma simultaneously with freeing your karma. So the secret really is non-duality. I mean, dualistic states of mind reify your karma. And I think this understanding came from thinking about the moment of death. Which is when the constituents dissolve and your karma dissolves. And if you can bring your attention to the subtle body or essence of mind, In the moment of death, you can secure a rebirth.

[65:22]

And so the moment of death is often called nirvana. Now, this is an extraordinary idea that a lifetime of karma can be dispensed with depending how you die at the moment of death. Now, as you know, I have no interest in whether I'm reincarnated or not. If I am, I'll be very happy to greet you in the next life. But I'm very happy to greet you in this life. But the understanding is in this moment, not necessarily the moment you die. If at this moment you can come into the all-at-onceness of essence of mind, your life is the activity of karma,

[67:02]

the appearance of karma and the resolution of karma and the insights and creativity and deep satisfaction that arises from that which enters you into a life of such deep satisfaction We can say that suffering has ended. So the truth of the eight four noble truths are truly named. before Noble Truths. Maybe it's a good time to take a break.

[68:33]

Maybe we could sit for a few moments. So what shall we talk about? I like you because of your karma. But I told you after I got rid of it you still like me too. Yesterday there was this one point talking about karma which touched me especially.

[69:33]

So I always have these points where I feel now I've been hit, you know, kind of positively. That was what you said, that you cannot produce karma by accident. That was very helpful for me and very meaningful for me. Because it goes towards a direction, in my understanding, of your own responsibility. And this in a middle European culture, which has this kind of judge or judgmental culture. So I have the feeling that the responsibility goes back to the individual, or the individual is thrown back onto its own responsibility.

[70:39]

On one hand, that felt really good for me because it corresponds to my need for self-responsibility. But on the other hand, this doubt came up. What happens if the individual How they always do it, they kind of escape their responsibility. What happens if people all escape their responsibility? In this tension, I had remembered this myth reconstruction. Oh, my God, I don't know how that's called. You know, when God comes back in the future and he judges everything? Do I know?

[71:54]

No, I mean, you know, this situation... So this... Doomsday. Oh, Doomsday. So they talked about Doomsday at the seminar or something about it. And I was in the representing or acting or I was one who resurrected at that moment. Who came in front of the judge. ... And very clearly I experienced in that moment that I decide or judge my own guilt. I found myself with my wife and decided to go to bed. This was a dream?

[72:59]

They enacted the situation of doomsday and that's what they experienced in this doomsday. So in other words, when you're with your wife... Even hell is beautiful. To come back to the deeper meaning of the whole thing, for me this was the connection or to be reminded of this life That I don't need a judge from my understanding.

[74:01]

But I think I know when I'm guilty or not. So that now I've got this thing, can you sneak out of responsibility? So out of this experience he discovers he cannot sneak out of that responsibility. We say then there's no place to hide. That's why I'm so feeling good with this recognition of self-responsibility. Because out of my experience of reconstructing these old myths,

[75:01]

But then I understood that you have to take upon yourself your own responsibility. And that's my understanding of karma. I'm happy to be part of your understanding. Someone else? This question always appears in me. With the self in connection to the transpersonal therapy, not in the sense of something really personal like some other therapists say, but in the sense of this transpersonal way of looking at it.

[76:30]

So at lunch I asked this question, how does Buddhism or Zen seize this? Since this question and now, I've got the feeling or impression that perhaps it could be something like... That's brilliant. That it's something connected, that it's a kind of activity. And that this is something which is maybe this in-betweenness. That it's a process that the yogic cultures define this more precisely or they can see this in a more structured way. Does this kind of touch or correlate to what you say or does it come closer of your understanding of self?

[77:36]

Well, of course, I don't really thoroughly understand the background of transpersonal self and things like that. But I can say very simply that the way to understand self in Buddhism is to understand it as a function and not an entity. And understanding it as a function, then you can see what the functions are. And then you can transform those functions. So you can transform the self. And you can transform it into a self, a function that you can free yourself from. But you still need the function of self to function. You throw too much at once.

[78:55]

I do. I just repeated what she said. I'm sorry. Yes? Oh, you're just scratching. Okay. No scratching allowed. Remember, this is Zen. Yeah. For me, it's impressing that the four marks are... The four marks. The process from birth to disappearance. This is pretty precisely... Gestalt and systemic. In Gestalt und in dem Systemischen. I don't really know the system.

[80:10]

All right, so Gestalt, okay. In Gestalt, I know it. In classical therapy, you call it I. That's something that only appears in activity, through the cycle. It goes through the cycle and then it disappears again. There it goes into the background and then something else is going to appear then. So neuroses are understood in gestalt, idea, as something which has not completed the cycle. And I would say that karma is understood. Karma in the sense that it's something that sticks to you. karma which isn't married to dharma is karma which hasn't gone through this cycle.

[81:13]

What's the fellow at Esalen who has written these books about Gestalt? Do you remember his name? I don't know. I've also stuck to something that you said this morning. You started speaking about the past and it's not Buddha and not the things and not mind. I just hung in there and I couldn't really understand it. Still? Yes. She feels it's still in there somehow in her head, existing as not understood. And she'd like to know, she'd be interested. It feels like a black hole in there. Good. Yeah, it's really good when something gets hold of you and it's working, and it's usually working against the ideas you have that don't support it.

[82:51]

For some of you, maybe going through this book thing was a little tiresome, pages and all that stuff. I don't know when Vedanta started. Does anybody know? It means the end of the Vedas, Vedanta. But it's old. But in any case, for whatever length of time Vedanta's been around, they haven't grasped or been willing to acknowledge this idea. is that there's no screen, there's no permanence, there's no outside. It's the in-betweenness that generates the sensation there's a screen.

[84:13]

So if they can resist this idea for a thousand years, you can resist it for a week or two. What you have to get, I think, is that what we have to get, what I have to get, is that form and emptiness is an activity. We could say bipolar emptiness. In other words, form and emptiness make emptiness. And form and emptiness are a polarity. There's no such thing as emptiness. It's incorrect to say form and emptiness.

[85:25]

Form is exactly emptiness. Emptiness is exactly form. And that's an experienceable world, it's an activity. And that together is called emptiness. So, what? So no mind is an activity of mind. You can't have not mind unless there's mind. You can't have not Buddha unless there's a Buddha. So you might say that not wine sack is hard. But when you can see the wine sack is also a Buddha, then you can have not Buddha, who's sometimes a wine sack.

[86:28]

Does that make sense? This, let's call it, bipolar emptiness... or the activity of non-duality requires duality. So it requires mind, Buddha, and things to realize not mind, not Buddha, and things, and that activity is the way. Neat is the way. So the subject-object mind is a deluded mind or a deluding mind. It tends to lead to delusion.

[87:40]

It tends to lead to seeing the world as permanent. But a wisdom mind It needs a subject-object mind. There's no wisdom mind without a subject-object mind. Okay. Yes, Regina? Yes, Regina? I try to imagine what this intentional context actually means for my just practical everyday life somehow, and also for my work, of course.

[88:54]

So I noticed that at that point I feel insecure and I don't quite get what it actually means. Or how it feels. And I'd like to hear a little bit more about that. It's a good question. Yeah. I get these editorial comments. In the middle of what you said, she whispers to me, Brilliant! Oh dear. This is to the non, an intentional context.

[90:07]

Is it a context which is an intention which yearns for embodiment? It's an intention which yearns for embodiment. Okay, so maybe I should try to embody this. Okay, so let's imagine this is the Zendo. Okay, good, good. That's not an intentional context. I have it, I have in my mind, I have instructions.

[91:10]

I follow those instructions. There's no intention. There's no intention in the present, in the immediacy of the present. It's like when Charlotte Selver said to me when I first met her, she didn't say stand up. She said, come up to standing. And on that I had a realization. Just standing up was an intentional context. The act of standing up was an intentional context. die Handlung oder das Aufstehens war ein intentionierter Kontext.

[92:12]

If I just stand up, I somehow, through my mind, pull my body from this point to that point. Wenn ich nämlich bloß aufstehe, dann ziehe ich meinen Körper mittels meines Geistes einfach hier rauf. Also stehe ich einfach bloß auf. If I come up to standing, wenn ich mich also hinaufhebe in das Stehen hinein, I don't know, there's a different feeling. All the cells in my body start to move. And I feel my weight shifting forward and I come up to stand. I come through some space and I'm living in all the different spaces. And as I said earlier, there's no standing, there's arriving and standing. Okay, so if I come in standing, in the usual way you come into a zendo or any room.

[93:25]

And as most of you know, we have little rules. There's lots of them, but I'll tell you some. The meaning is you step into every door. With the foot nearest the hinge. And if you do it the other way, you feel yourself standing with the other foot. You don't feel wrong, you just do it. And it's funny to see beginners doing this. They come up to a door with Cresto. Look. I'm going to close the door so you can hear me. So you step in the door.

[94:37]

And you stop and you put your two feet together. And you carry together that distance. It's kind of a secret yogic practice. Just look at that door. And then you go to your seat. So you go to your seat and you stop. Now the secret of this is the pause. Or the moment of mindlessness. And then you turn around. And when you do that, you're not involved, but you're going to do something. But in the films of Ozu, you're just acknowledging the room.

[95:42]

So your intention to sit is also involved with each moment, an intention just to, you know, like that. Now, one other way we practice this, and I mentioned it at Wiesloch, in Siegfried's round table that had no table, it was one of his teachings. is when you meet somebody. Like if I run into Gunda Kresta, I'm going to stay on this practice period. I stop, I put my feet together.

[96:43]

I bow to her. And I stop in this space.

[96:45]

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