The interesting thing about the most famous sand guard in Kyoto is wherever you stand, one stone is hidden. That's... I'm here as a seminar participant and as a partner, and not out of material pressure, but because Laura wished so, I just have a few words from here. And I just wanted to say that Laura really supports my practice very much. And that also shows in this bag for the suit. I don't know if my organization is because of the fact that it is inefficient. I didn't take that, but you did. In a way that the structure goes completely over each other, even though it is between the seams.

[01:03]

And that is the symbol for me that she supports my practice without having to participate in it herself. And I can tell you that she was very happy that she liked this place and that she feels that it is respected that she does not participate in the practice and is still welcome. Because if I were to say it, you would have to pray about it. And I don't think I would plan any further. I wish you all a good time. Without me, it would be the same. Thank you. Is Katerina upstairs?

[02:21]

Katerina? Yes. He brought his mat with me down here. She was already there. She was just there. Was she healthy? Yes, she was still on the dam. Did she have something to eat with the cake? Yes. There was lemon juice in it. Did the dam open? No, she still asked me if I knew what was in there. Then I just said what I tasted. Oh dear. Thank you. Well, I thank you for what we have just done and that we have remained on the subject.

[04:03]

It's really great, so much time with so many people. There are certainly still aspects that Some of us would rather talk with others during the break, but please dare to bring in what you would rather talk with others during the break. This is really an opportunity where it is not valued and you can simply be what you want or what you like to need. And now we want to let it float a little bit, what we have done today and talk about it. What does it mean for the Sangha, what we can express our needs today?

[05:05]

And what aspects of it do we want to take up and implement? Now not necessarily how to implement, but what we want to implement. We don't have to invent new rules now, but maybe give the impulse which aspects. But everything is possible. So what does it mean for the Sangha What we could show today for needs or would like to show and what we would like to implement. And you can say anything, you can say that the band is great, the band is great, the columns are inevitable when someone wants to sit oval there, or it's nice to sit here in the circle, or the halls are good, or the halls are strange, it's all, yes.

[06:15]

In the smallest group, something has appeared in us that we have not touched since then, but I would like to bring it into the big round. We are always so aware that we form a Sashin body, that we form a winter twig body, to form a basin body. And where I think this does not get so much respect is the resident body, the everyday guest body and the groups that then appear. For me, as a frequent guest, the transitions are not really appreciated.

[07:29]

I don't have an exact suggestion, but I think that when a group goes away, even if I stay here, I feel that this is a kind of The room is then frayed and everyone sits together and then after a couple of days there is a house group again. But I think these transitions can also be done with a short ritual or something like that, so that you pay attention to this house group with a form. such a kind of intimacy space.

[08:29]

And I just noticed it because I'm there often and then suddenly someone comes and says, I'll stay for five weeks. And then I have to be open and welcoming and greet the people. But I'm not prepared at all. So this is a different aspect. And who informs new guests? Who is responsible? Do they know, for example, if they report to the breakfast kitchen, that they should also do something after the meal? And that can simply avoid a lot of misunderstanding in everyday life, if we take it a little more consciously. I would like to follow up.

[09:34]

I have noticed in all the things I have heard in our group, especially this afternoon, how important it is that the family group is a stable group, or what kind of radiation the family group has. Those who are permanently here, and how much this group carries. That is actually not so new. A long time ago, when I was the first group with Hannah here, there was already a house meeting. That was a different background. But there I have already felt how important it is to make my contribution to this place here, to come more often if necessary, because there is a lot of work. I heard that very clearly and I think I put it into practice as well as I could.

[10:45]

It is important for me again that we support this group as much as we can. And that there are enough people on whose shoulders everything is distributed. Because if they are all overworked and exhausted, then they will just get nervous and that makes sense. So it seems important to me that there are enough people. I can only draw that out of my hat. But yes, Agatha is often here too, I think. And that you might also ask, ask the group of people, the people you know, they are free. Can you come? We have a lot to do. And it's a small thing. Recently Jonas said, that's just a small thing, but that makes the difference.

[11:55]

And today he described very wonderfully how this lives in this group of people and how he feels about it. That gave me a very big insight into how one feels here, from different perspectives. That was great. It helped me a lot. Yes, that is important to me. That is the basic thing. If you all turn around, then I also feel like a crazy person. That makes itself noticeable. Then it's hard for me. And then I don't feel supported enough. That doesn't work either. So, please, ask too. And say, There was too much. Before you were too exhausted and threw things away. I don't feel responsible.

[12:56]

We are currently the largest house group. And I would just say in principle, apart from individual projects that require a lot of attention, we are not overworked in that way. We are well positioned and we have nothing to complain about. We are now in the stage, and it is good that we have such a seminar, where the communication and the learning to talk to each other in this community is extremely important.

[13:56]

Where I see a need and what I see is what I would really wish for. And even if I'm a little scared of that, I would still really like to open up to each other. And that has never happened before. Maybe even in a guided setting, where we are not alone, but where we have explained our relationship, just try to talk to each other in a constructive way, as we used to. what we feel negative about each other, what we want to improve and what we want to change. That would be a great wish for me, to create a space and a framework on which these hierarchical and personal conflicts may be put aside and where it is possible from mind to mind.

[15:30]

I have put my thing in the right place. five years ago, about four and a half years ago. And what I'm saying now is not at all against what Anita and Agata emphasized, which is important. But I didn't go out there because I was overworked, not at all. I still don't believe that this is really the problem. It wasn't the problem back then either. I think, and this is what I noticed in the smaller group, for me the question is, what do I need? First of all, that doesn't solve anything. So, to need, to need something, is for me... I can't do that, I don't know, I have to learn it first.

[16:37]

I had to learn it first. I think I left Johanneshof because I couldn't find out what I actually needed. Something was missing. I couldn't say exactly, but I realized, I need it now, I just need it now. And I wouldn't have described it that way back then. But that would be good. So I found a lot of important help and suggestions and I'm still with someone here. And I also believe that it is especially important, I mean, it is important everywhere, even in everyday life, when you paint. There is also little conversational structure and competence in talking to each other. But especially at such a place it is important, because here the sensitivity is special and also the question, who am I, what am I, what do I want and how is it all going at all, is also particularly touched. And I think it's important to have a very pragmatic exercise, just like you have a pragmatic exercise for breathing, awareness and these things.

[17:41]

To have a pragmatic exercise to find out what I need. And how I can formulate that, I can't formulate that on a pillow. And that doesn't mean that I shouldn't sit anymore. It's never about either or, it's really both. And about the sitting practice in the Johanneshof, I think, I have the feeling that you don't have to worry so much. But you could take much more care about the culture of conversation. And that doesn't mean a heavy psychological drama or anything like that. These are very practical stories. Because people don't come together here because they like each other so much. They might like each other, but that's not the point. You come together when you want to practice. And that gives me a good basis to get into a conversation culture that doesn't have to be so personal. Because the personal relationships aren't necessarily always there. They are present in a different way.

[18:42]

Yes, I think it needs an exercise, for me in any case, in which I find out what I need. And how I notice it myself and then I can show it. I want to put it right again quickly. I didn't want to reduce it to the beginning of the work here in Johannesburg, the typical beginning of work, but actually I wanted to express that this is a that we support others, the group here, and they in turn support us. Of course, that works in many ways. And then I consider myself to be able to contribute to that, at work, because I also have time and can do that. But of course it is not only reduced to work. on the daily work that is being done.

[19:58]

So, yes, Frank, I think that's exactly the point. What do I need here? I think I put my hand on my heart. I am here to find a bit of security and inner peace somewhere. A bit of harmony and equality in my life, of course. I think that's one point that I think we all agree on. I hope so. On the other hand, we have different intentions in life.

[21:03]

And in that respect, our communication is also directed differently. And what I have discovered for myself is that you drive quite well, because basically it is so complex with all the different interests that it brings into context. Just be honest with yourself and be honest with the other. It's not easy. As I said, you have your own intentions. But if you try to be honest Yes.

[22:13]

That also tries, even if it doesn't always work with some correct words, to communicate what you think and what you really think and what you really feel. Then it will somehow work. Yes, that also develops a little. Hello. I know of a group of people from Tietan, who also live in a community, that they have such meetings, regular meetings, once or twice a week, where they talk to each other, just like now. and where it can be found from person to person, equally. Yes, I don't know if that's still possible, but that's what I'm still finding at the moment.

[23:16]

So I think you should always have a piece of paper with you, something to write down, but maybe not about the things that are so important to you. And maybe you need it. because there is a group of people who don't want to talk to each other. And maybe you can also have such meetings with people who are just in the house. With people who are just in the house. And have such conversations. I noticed at the beginning of the question that it is a question that concerns me much more in my private life as a father of a family and as a married man.

[24:29]

And I think, hey, if they would ask me, I would have to talk to my wife about it. There is a hint of feeling, joy, something like that. And I notice, here in the community, I think, that such feelings also come up in the community, as I see them. I also find it very normal. I notice, of course, that we have three children, they are our best friends, and that creates a lot of connection and good distance. And this indisputability and pain is a part of my life and it is not so much about finding methods so that it is not there, but to find methods to get it there. And maybe even methods to get to it at all. In this context, it is important that something like balsam is there for the soul.

[25:45]

That is, the other thing happens to the soul, it comes up to some thing, the feeling, it gets angry with me. I lose the tolerance for the way I feel. Yes, and that is... It was very interesting for me to hear at many places again and again how important friendship is, how important mutual consent is, the need to create a relationship, also these parts that may feel bitter. So, as we also have in us, where we could only come from, we can't think of a reasonable law, so that they too can be brought into a system because they are part of it. We should try to divide them. I'm sorry.

[27:05]

I find that so remarkable and it actually exceeds my imagination that so much, so much of us is created here. And so I have that in this smallest group, it was very strong, this we. And I really felt that as a circle, where we were with the other, the other, the other, We were very open. We practiced listening and there were many breaks. And because we gradually increased our impulses, I felt a small difference every time. With the twelve I already noticed that it was uncomfortable for me. But then I still let myself in on it.

[28:32]

So in this realization, okay, that's not my comfort size anymore. But I still remained open and still there was listening. I didn't feel everyone like that anymore, but still listening remained very important. And that we-feeling Das ist aber schon auch eine etwas künstliche Situation und ich And I really wish that what I now feel as an artificial situation, that we can really take more of it into this everyday life, where I often don't experience so much beer, but somehow that I don't know, that we talk to each other, that there is no listening, or that I can't even speak out, or that I will be interrupted.

[29:33]

Yes, that would be nice if we could have that too. At this point, for me, what we had briefly before, this conversation with each other, but also in this house of Sassen, and for me it would be As Nicole said, the rules are there, or the rituals. It's a bit simple to become a Sutta. But for me, that's also the meaning of this house. And maybe there is a possibility of conversation, once a normal practice, but maybe there is a Gibt es Ideen oder Anleitungen für, wie sollen Menschen miteinander sprechen, wenn sie versuchen ein Bruder zu werden oder wenn sie von dieser Ebene her kommen, wo man schon ein bisschen lang mit Bewunderung ist?

[30:53]

Das finde ich spannend. Also nicht nur einfach Gespräch, wie ich das überhaupt haben könnte, im Korrekturwerk auch, aber auch eine Kultur, ein Übungsort, How can I speak? And what do I speak? So how do I meet people? I have to be quiet. That's the most beautiful thing. I would like to open it up a little. I am a little surprised by this discussion that there are so few discussions and conversations in the house.

[31:56]

It is as old as this house and even older. And I said in a small group, That there is this house and that there is this center needs at least 10,000 people. And it probably needs a lot more than that. It probably needs a whole society that is open to the fact that something like this exists. And they are in a very different relationship to Buddhism, in a way, or far away, or whatever. And it is It amazes me a little bit that we are so strongly focused on this house and how the conversation culture is in this house, because most of us do not live in this house, but are in different city groups. And what I would be interested in would be how these different levels or areas that are necessary for this house to exist or that practice exists.

[33:06]

how they can communicate with each other, what they need from each other, or how they feel perceived. Because that's a bit like, if you would say, the CERN in Geneva, the Dechenbeschleuniger, that's the only thing that's physical, and otherwise there's no physics at all. And for me, just to say it, and without just comforting my feelings, it is often the case that a negative aspect, or an aspect that I find very negative, when people communicate with me about letters that hold too little money, Also da würde ich mir irgendwie auch mehr wünschen an Kommunikation.

[34:08]

Aber das ist kein Vorwurf, das ist einfach so, das ist fact of life. Aber wie würde mich interessieren, nicht nur auf die Gruppe zu fokussieren, die hier im Haus blickt, sondern das einfach weiter zu sehen. Was brauchen wir von einem anderen? What happens somehow underground, at least with me, is that I have dealt a lot with psychology and with further education and also experiences in groups throughout my adult life.

[35:41]

I also put a lot of time and money into it. And here in Johanneshof and in our Sangha it is something new for me now for a few years that I am trying to create these new perspectives until I can simply weave it into my person, into my existence, and I notice that this is something important in the intermediate human being, that we also have a kind of space here during encounters or confrontations, for everyone who is present at the moment, so that it can go into a common body and into a common space, and thereby this whole mutual exchange, which also expresses itself in my feelings and in my body,

[37:05]

change with you. And that's where I'm at the very beginning. I just feel that I have the opportunity here in different groups and in everyday life, but also in different forms that take place here, that I experience something that I often cannot put into words. And maybe we will find, as I have with individuals now, that I really try to formulate my experience differently than with individual psychological concepts. And that just takes a lot of time and a lot of trust. Yes, and I think we are at the very beginning. But I find it interesting what you have said, Elke, that we have to explore something in this field.

[38:21]

How does this change express itself? For me it has become something different here. I have always associated meditation with silence and mindfulness practice on the pillow. When I came here for the first time a few times, I experienced something different. namely that there is a possibility to be involved, to be involved in processes that involve a community that I am new to.

[39:28]

At that time, we also had a dialogue in small groups. At that time, the university also led this and others. And it was about exactly this space. And it wasn't quite like it is now. So, for example, I think the stairs were different. The entrance was different. And the walls were also not so beautifully painted. And that was new to me. And I realized that meditation or the practice can be expanded in a way that is understandable to me. And that helps me in my age. For example, when I run or jog, And then think about how can I be centered now?

[40:44]

How can I move forward now? That I then look, how can I participate? The Johanneshof, this center here, is for me an example of how participation works. that everything is there with me. So is my life and also my desire that based on the practice a lot of everyday things want to be realized. For me it is so that I am experiencing and on a path of development that is quite good, if we talk about what I can get out of it.

[41:54]

And that is for me also a very significant signal. This commitment that I have to practice is something that is totally necessary at the moment. And what comes naturally, because I see what I am developing, is very important. And I don't remember why. It's not easy for me. Of course, I don't know exactly why. I can only say why I am with the ladies. And what is right for me, when I look at it now, what do I believe in this process, I notice that it is very important to me. if we understand it as a condition and look at it and appreciate what is happening there.

[42:59]

And I realize myself that there is something else. I used to have a friend for a long time with whom I lived together and we haven't seen each other for a long time. And when I come home from work, they sometimes say, oh, did you take it off? And then I was always very sorry. I said, oh, I thought you were fat earlier. And they said, no, no, you look good. And that's a little bit like in the recovery process, that you can focus on yourself better. There was something earlier. I don't feel sorry for the time and so on. But that's why I don't see it as a good day. So what I really like is that the small steps, the assessment can be very small steps.

[44:00]

That's normally somehow, I don't know, a new small routine in the office or the way the conversation goes. There are a lot of small details. And yes, so I'm talking about what is so much higher than that. So that's what I'm talking about. And when you talk to each other about it, that's what I notice the most. What I need from you is this space and this atmosphere of openness that we always have together

[45:22]

discover or let arise. That is why I come here. And I would now like to record what Eric has mentioned, what is unique so far, because I... I don't know, I needed to think about it. And for me it is so that we have now spoken a lot about the Haussanger, because I am now here with you and with parts of the Haussanger, and that is what is happening here now. So it is an entry into the present. And the second approach is, what Ulrich mentioned, to crash at home, right?

[46:38]

Here it will also crash with the house owner, only if interested, right? This is normal. Is it psycho or not psycho? What I am much more interested in is, because this is the place where we practice together, how do you manage to get it out of practice? For me it is also an ideal or a picture that I have that goes much further out of the house. How can I live a little older in society or in my environment? with 10,000 people who are organized differently.

[47:50]

And for me, this is also a struggle, this collaboration. It is not easy to solve the little things here and there, whether they are difficult to solve or not. and what is especially bothering me today is how I how I practice not only being an individual and I feel more connected to you as a Sangha and because of how much I become to myself and at the same time I become less I don't know how to express it and

[49:08]

And I always fall out again when I go into the position of I and the others. And I lose this experience in the extreme position. I can't draw a conclusion or anything. I'm trying to to write the word where I am, where I am today. In dialogue seminars, as I know them, it is often very helpful to reflect on conversations or conversational processes.

[51:31]

I don't want to destroy things. I think this is now a really wonderful dialogue, but maybe to hear every part again, I would like to invite you to feel the question again, what did I notice? I have learned this for myself, so that we can also practice this awareness, and from this sharing what we have noticed, we can go one step further, without planning to create the place now.

[52:35]

And I would like to invite you, perhaps this evening in a circle or in some order, but that all those present here perhaps have a few words to say. Have I noticed something? For me, I have noticed something. At some point today. I have noticed that I can relax in a large group. I have noticed that there is a lot to talk about in the small group,

[53:45]

Yes, more personal questions. The bigger the group, the more difficult it was. However, this room of silence was now bigger in the big group, where some were allowed to speak, while others were more present. to go into contact, to push into the background. That was fun to learn. And I have noticed that I have integrated myself more with different subjects here. And I always get annoyed that I do not get this in everyday life very well. I would make a group with ego here. Because I just had the idea that there are a few similar questions in everyday life with people who do not have such a space of meditation in themselves.

[55:01]

Unfortunately, I am very confused. Yes, I have noticed that I find the small movements very pleasant for young people. And it was also much easier for me to bring myself in. And the big group that is now, is somehow too big for me. And yes, the smaller groups were actually quite wonderful. And what I noticed is that similar groups I found it so amazing that in these different constellations, in the 3rd group, in the 6th group, in the 12th group and now in the big circle,

[56:02]

It felt so different every time, and actually completely different facets emerged in the same circle of topics. We spoke of completely different things, more moods arose, and at the same time it was very interesting when the small groups were in the room, these small movements and conversations, how it was mixed up in the whole room, how one felt the field, and there were situations where we were very quiet in our group and were silent, and I wonder where we got that idea from. And another thing, What do I need? At the beginning it seemed to me that I could find a case. But now I can quickly introduce myself as the thick self.

[57:13]

I need something, I need this and that. So I said I would like to give up. What is nourishing? And in this room, in the big group, it is about There are transformative processes in our practice, and may it be that I was different yesterday than I am today, and now I am different again, and now I am different again, so that we can try something out together, so that we have the courage to try it out. what the application of the teachings is doing with us.

[58:21]

And there it is very difficult to find the language. The writing did not come from there at all. I have noticed, as so often, that I always need a lot of courage to speak the truth from my point of view and not to judge myself. And to let go that I also have something to say.

[59:30]

It was nice that this group got bigger and bigger. It also took something from this inhibition, which for me is much bigger, when I talk about this group now. But I noticed that it always made me very afraid to show up. I have noticed that the smaller the topic or the topic or the topic of the topic that is addressed by someone, the smaller and the more concrete and the more reference this person is put into it.

[60:37]

the more I somehow got used to it. And today, in order to go to a political school, because I wanted to go, I needed a hard-to-get school, to show the opposite. I often saw myself in a I found a room in a spherical room where a light flashed up and there was something flashing and there was something flashing and I also had a faint little star. That also happened to me. And what I also noticed What I said at the very beginning was that I wanted to go with my mother in this small church.

[61:44]

She often came to pick me up from the house, and then I thought to myself that it would be nice to go further, because I didn't know anything that I didn't know so well. We learned there Thank you very much for this opportunity. Today I have put myself in the role of a guest, and I have put myself in this role very, very well, I have seen openness, trust, appreciation, and I have also received good food and drinks,

[63:05]

I even helped to prepare the bread. With a bit of worry or indifference, I also talked about the topic with the household community. If you don't go any further and take care of me, I can tell you that I will. What I have noticed is that the special thing about our communication here is the quality of silence and listening.

[64:21]

I can't remember that I had spoken somewhere before and at the same time had the feeling that there is a world here of people who listen, without me looking for the heads. What I think is great is that everyone really thinks about this question, which I still haven't really understood. But at the same time I also feel a little bit of worry in everyone, which I also think is right. But on the other hand, I also think that I really don't need to worry about anyone.

[65:24]

Because I only see intelligent people here who all take care of it. And that can't go wrong. I liked the last round very much. It was very nice to listen to you and I noticed that. And what I particularly liked was that everyone who spoke spoke with such great self-respect about what pleases me most. And through this, what one expresses with self-respect, to let it come and to bring it into it. So I have the feeling that this is such a starting point for something that can unfold.

[66:31]

And oftentimes you speak and actually don't even know. And then I have the feeling that there is a kind of mutual kind of self-respect for what wants to come. And I feel really good about that. It makes me feel confident. You know, I've been hearing, I've only heard this afternoon because of limited language abilities.

[67:41]

But what I've heard this afternoon, the questions and the issues, I've been hearing for 55 years. But there is a significant difference in what I hear and feel now. And one is that the issues and the concerns have more dimensions, have more complexity. And they don't feel like they're being presented

[68:44]

simply to be solved. Where they don't feel as if the only alternative, the only response to the concerns is solution. So for me, it feels like the issues are being presented, again, not just so that they can be solved. It feels like they're being presented so that they can be accepted. And there seems to me to be a feel that if they're accepted, there'll be a process of a response which is different than a response which comes from the field and not just from the problems involved in the issue.

[70:38]

OK. So it feels like if the issues that are being presented with a feeling that they're being accepted, And it feels like, to me, like there's a trust in the process of acceptance. and that the solutions will be feels like there's an implicit initial or implicit trust that the solutions which will come up within a field of acceptance

[71:48]

will be more acceptable and probably be more accurately dimensioned. So for me this is a huge difference from hearing the same questions and issues I've heard for half a century. So my dream and my hope is is that we're in the process of finding a new kind of sangha, in which what the lay sangha needs, in a place like this and through practice,

[73:19]

can be more fully realized as well as the Sangha which lives here for some significant length of time can also find ways to realize and realize their needs. Yeah. And, yeah.

[74:24]

I feel you. Except you're mad. You make the father get tired of us. I noticed how you couldn't question what was going on. I liked the way in which they spoke to each other in a big circle. I thought it was sincere, and yes, it was singing, and it was sincere, and it was talking, and it was climbing, and climbing, and so on. And most of all, I had saved the two of us. Well, I notice in myself, and this is my opinion, what I develop, a tabooization in the group of conflicts, not in the sense that you know the conflict,

[76:09]

but that when you go into conflict or conflict, that you address it clearly. And then I feel such excitement in myself when I address certain points that, yes, that I find to be dissatisfying or irritating. And in the small groups I always had the feeling that it was a meta-conversation. Yes, there is such a conflict, or there is such a mess, or there is a problem. But what exactly the problem is, what exactly it is about, where it really gets hot, that has not been addressed. And then I find it difficult to deal with it. And conflicts are also part of it.

[77:23]

And not because conflicts are so great and so beautiful, but because they just arise. And somehow we have to, or we have to do it. In any case, I found this question good. Because in principle I don't need to go back to the position where I just accept it as it is. But I give myself the opportunity to change something. Yes. I don't know what your conflict is. So, tell him. I don't have a conflict. No, but for example this point, this point, how does the house singer behave, how does Johannes Fogh behave to the people who don't live here?

[78:38]

What is their relationship to each other? What is... And what I mentioned is then this point where you say, okay, where I then have the feeling, I always only get, when I get information, then it's like letters packed in sweets and financial support. I think that's dissatisfying. I'm not saying that it's bad, but is there more? Are there other ways to get the goal together? How can there be an exchange between Johannes Hofzanger and the many others that I know in Johannes Hofzanger? That's not a conflict, it's just an uncomfortable point. But it is difficult to address this point, I think.

[79:46]

And I think there are, in common, in the practice of mutual understanding, such points, which are then brought into a meta-dialogue, that we know that there is a problem, but not spoken about what the problem is. I feel the Johanneshof Sangha as simply with Sangha brothers and sisters. I don't have the feeling that they would have to enter into a dialogue with us from the outside. They simply have an overview thanks to their Buchhaltung und so, über was hier entschieden wird, wie viel Geld da ist, wie viel das alles kostet. They are now taking care of the finances.

[80:51]

And of course the whole Sangha has to know that. I think that's great. And I think that was a really qualitative leap, since Ulrich started there, to inform the whole Sangha about Rotzenholz. And I have the feeling that the people who live here as the Johanneshof Sangha, they are just... members of the Sangha. I don't see it as an interest group or something like that. I simply believe that it is a community of life that has a certain task, and they have their own conflicts. But I prefer the exchange, for example, in the Sangha. or what we did in the Skandas. I thought that was great. And that doesn't go from house Sangha to Sangha, but it's something that we explore and exchange together. That's how I see it.

[81:49]

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