So then they asked the group afterwards, the black group, how did you like the movie? That was pretty boring, but what the hell was that gorilla doing in there? And they asked the white group, how did you like the movie? It was pretty boring. What did you think of the gorilla? What gorilla? They hadn't seen the gorilla. Isn't that unbelievable? Because I guess they were so concentrated on white, the black gorilla just wasn't in there. I find it hard to believe, but it's a great story. So ever since then, I've been noticing these gorillas going through the room and I've been wondering if anyone else has seen them.

[01:03]

This is Zen gorilla walking through the room. Let's have lunch. We could call ourselves the Zen Gorilla Group. But they might think we're radical or something. But that isn't so bad in Europe. Oh, it isn't? No. Good afternoon. What does Leopold say to people? Greeting? Greetings to you. Leopold goes up to people and says, greetings to you.

[02:07]

So I'm saying... You know, I think we've... come pretty far. In the sense that I think 90% of practitioners whose main actually don't really get this. Wouldn't you agree? What would you say? I'd say, unfortunately, you're correct. But if I could add that I also think people think they get it. Yeah, well, they've heard about it, but they don't have a sense that it actually is something that you can and need to practice.

[03:11]

On the other hand, if I had about five or six different ways to look at enlightenment, we've sort of staggered toward one. Or One and a little more. Anyway. And I believe tomorrow is the last day, isn't it? Oh, woe is me. Okay, so how are we going to use our time between now and later? Yeah, what I'd like you to do, as you can imagine, is this afternoon now, at least, for you to meet together.

[04:27]

As one group or two groups. You decide. And what I'd suggest you discuss, of course, anything you want is fine. Is this a potential worldview or potential view of the world that can be practiced? Can this become an intentional view? view of the world that can be practiced. For you. And the other question would be, Does this have any theoretical or practical applications to your therapeutic work?

[05:33]

Although we speak about Buddhism primarily in recent, almost all the years from the beginning, still I'm always interested in how it relates to psychotherapy. And I wanted Paul, if he seems to be willing, to present something about this koan or something tomorrow for a while. And then we also need to decide what time we stop tomorrow afternoon. It is decided? Oh, what is it decided?

[06:39]

Oh, okay. Yeah. That's fine with me. If you want to change it, it's fine with me too. That's up to you guys. Okay, so I leave you and I'll come back at some point. You can have a break or whatever you want to do. Okay. Thanks. And Paul, I presume you won't participate. Okay. Good morning.

[07:53]

Good morning. I see you over there. I'm pleased to have a chance to share some feeling I have for practice with you all. And I'd like to leave some time for you to let me know about your experiences. and share your practice with me in this specific way as well. So feeling into a talk with you this morning,

[08:54]

I was very informed by the questions Roshi put forth yesterday. And the way each of you related to them in the discussion in the afternoon. And it ties into this koan that Roshi mentioned the past two days. And how this koan holds in some way my response to these questions. So I'd like to repeat the beginning of it again. Daowu asks his, excuse me, Yunyan, Asks his older brother Daowu, what does the Bodhisattva of great compassion do with so many hands and eyes?

[10:33]

And Daowu answers, it's like someone reaching for their pillow in the night. So I've been occupied with this koan since September. And the questions yesterday encouraged me to look at why I'm involved with this. This question and this unusual response. And my wife likes, she doesn't practice Zen and she calls these things, one person hits another person over the head with a dead cat and they get enlightened.

[11:46]

She doesn't find any way into such an exchange. So, How do I find a way into this exchange? Why does such a thing grab me so much? And why can't I let go of it? I feel it has two very important aspects for me. The way I work with such a thing. And one is what for this morning, at least at the beginning of the morning, I'll call resonance. There's some sense in a response like this that is in accord with some feeling I have.

[12:52]

Not an idea I have. Not a way I expect the world to show up in my experience. And the second very important aspect for me is what I'm feeling now is reach. There's a part of this resonance, this feeling for it, There's also something I can't get a hold of. I can't say, I know that already. So there's a way such an exchange can... Lead me in my practice.

[14:20]

Through allowing it to unfold and continuing to place my mind on such a phrase, How I place my mind on such a phrase. There's some unfolding in my life, some more richness in my life. And I feel particularly drawn to this exchange. as is what is pointed out in the introduction that Roshi mentioned twice. There's some clear, unobstructed, open in all direction feeling.

[15:21]

And also a question about how is this manifested? How does this experience of openness and unobstructed feeling function in my life? How can I live with a feeling like this every day? So the two questions Roshi asked us to consider yesterday about intention and the relationship of these kinds of practices, this view to our work, returned me to this question about how can I function in this way.

[16:37]

And more than nine months of every year. More than nine months out of every year. I spend in... seemingly ordinary householder life, not in a temple. And a group that I meet with every month, giving some talks, also shares this everyday work life. So, particularly for me, how is this feeling present in everyday activity, not in some special, unusual situation?

[17:55]

So to begin with, what resonates with me, that draws me in? This bodhisattva of great compassion, Avalokiteshvara, is sometimes seen as having, as Roshi mentioned, a thousand arms, ten thousand arms, eighty-four thousand arms, or unlimited arms. And each of the hands on these arms has an eye. And the feeling is this eye can see exactly what each person needs. And has just the right thing to offer. So there's a feeling of unlimited capacity, unlimited agency, to provide just exactly what each person needs.

[19:17]

And yet Da Wu says it's something as simple as someone reaching for a pillow in the night. So this being of unlimited capacity expresses itself through some very seemingly ordinary experience we all have. So the first thing that draws me in is the word someone. He didn't say it's like the Bodhisattva of great compassion reaching for a pillow. So I feel each of us can be that someone. I can be that someone. And the feeling of reaching for the pillow in the night is very intimate and close for me.

[20:54]

In the dark, in the feeling of our zazen practice, zazen mind. And there's a feeling of closeness. And there's a feeling of closeness. pillow in the night is not so far away. And there's a feeling of, there's some knowing, oh, I need to fluff a pillow or bring it closer. And also some not knowing, some not being so clear because we're not quite awake. So the koan is not about grabbing pillows. But it's reaching toward, it's moving in some way, it's in a relationship with something we can't quite grasp.

[22:01]

And it's a very simple act of taking care of something. That we don't have an idea of being some special activity that we're attaining some goal or doing something well. It may happen, but it's very unusual if somebody wakes in the morning and says, I just really reached well for that pillow last night. I'm such a good pillow fluffer. Boy. Just a simple connection and taking care of something. And a not separate feeling. When you see a child falling, you go to catch the child.

[23:41]

Then most often you don't think, oh, I was really a good, kind person to catch the child. You just catch the child. So these qualities are resonances that I can feel in this response. When I feel some warm, close feelings, like maybe at night I pull the covers up over my... or you may pull it up over your child. Some kind of close, intimate, not special feeling, but tender, inside ourselves, connected with ourselves feeling. But there's also a lot of reach in this exchange for me.

[24:43]

Because this bodhisattva functioning, and for me bodhisattvas are awake to delusion. So their activity is rooted in understanding the nature of delusion. In knowing delusion, in knowing the nature of things as they are. And the Heart Sutra that is chanted every morning in Crestone and Johanneshof and all Zen temples.

[26:02]

The first line is that the Bodhisattva Avalokiteshvara perceives that all five skandhas are empty. This perception for me is a whole body-mind perception. I don't know the exact Sanskrit term, but it includes more than mentation. Not the Bodhisattva thought that all five skandhas are empty of their own being. And the Bodhisattva's view is anchored in this experience. That the four marks and the five dharmas point us toward. And there's a sense that bodhisattvas are known through functioning, known in relationship.

[27:33]

So the Bodhisattva Avalokiteshvara means one who regards the cries of the world. Sometimes in Japan the word that is used is Kanzayon. Which means one who sees sounds. So this kind of perception, it's a whole body-mind perception. Not limited to thinking. Leaving nothing out. And out of this feeling of perceiving the emptiness of the five skandhas, the aggregates of being, the relationship in which the bodhisattva functions is one of care and connection with things.

[29:00]

Knowing deeply this wisdom which is expressed through impermanence, through the four marks. there's a reaching out to each being with that feeling. Outside of their story or some particular need. But seeing each being in this way of birth, duration, dissolution, And there's a sense of care that comes from this.

[30:09]

So knowing the suffering that's caused through being deluded about, not being willing to see the truth of these marks. Maybe like the kind of care we have to our painful knees after sitting for a while. And the care we feel for the person next to us, knowing how their knees are in pain, too. So there's a sense of functioning not about accomplishing something specifically. But for me it's more functioning in a way that fully expresses this caring and connection.

[31:32]

The kind of feeling of when we pick up something, we do it with two hands. That we don't treat the world as some object separate from us. It's very different when you hold something with one hand. Or if you hold it with two hands. Like Leopold with a glass of juice. The whole world is that glass of juice connected to him, not something else. But what's most important is not always being stuck to using two hands. I had an opportunity in the fall to have dinner with a friend and their daughter.

[32:57]

And I was very moved by her feeling for practice. And her wanting to do something with two hands. And she doesn't have two hands. She only has one hand. And I learned from her how you can do something with one hand, with the feeling of two hands. Because two hands are actually connected here. So much of the sense of practice I have is not about the doing something precisely or right, but continuing to express practice with that feeling.

[34:08]

Sometimes the Bodhisattva's way is called like a rhinoceros way. So the rhinoceros, it just has one horn. It can't get you this way and get you this way, just one horn. And when we offer the stick, the long stick of incense in the zendo, There's a feeling of making the best effort to make the stick in the center of the incense ball. And to have it be upright, not leaning back or forth or sideways.

[35:13]

And I had a habit often, I would tilt the incense toward the Buddha, so not so upright. And each time I'd offer the incense, I would make my best effort to put it in straight. And sometimes I'd put it in and I'd see, oh, it's leaning toward the Buddha again. I didn't make it so straight. But this practice is nothing to go back and to... jiggle the incense and adjust it so that it's just straight. The most important thing is the sincerity of offering myself. Das Wichtigste ist diese Ehrlichkeit, mich selbst darzubringen.

[36:51]

Und die Anstrengung zu machen, es richtig zu tun. Aber nicht gebunden zu sein an das, was herauskommt. So in the commentary in this koan, the Zen monk Wansong says, he describes the functioning of the bodhisattva in this way. It's like willow-grown banks and flower-grown walls. On a warm day in a gentle breeze. It's like willow-grown banks and flower-grown walls. On a warm day in a gentle breeze. It accords with things and comes with time.

[38:08]

Unstopped, unhindered. Unbehindered. Like the moon in the sky revolving naturally. It accords with things and comes with time. Unstopped and unhindered. Like the moon in the sky revolving naturally. And the key piece for this for me is this gentle breeze. The unique breeze of our sincere practice blowing through these flower-grown walls and willow-grown banks With our openness and our warmheartedness touching the flowers and the willow.

[39:14]

Finding an aliveness for each of us in the feeling of this reaching for a pillow in this darkness. With a view that this path is possible. That we intend to practice with four marks and five dharmas rooted in an experience of emptiness. And we commit ourselves to acting in this way. And what's extremely important for me in practice is that maybe we can't do this all the time.

[40:35]

Sometimes we say a word. Sometimes there's an act that doesn't express our complete sincerity. And for me, the secret of practice is beginning again. So we can, even if we do something we feel was not so completely in my single-minded practice. We can find the pause. And enter again. So thank you very much.

[42:02]

So are there some things that you all would like to share? everything she wants to share everything In the beginning of the koan, when this reaching for the pillow...

[43:29]

When I heard this, it became clear to me that it's a very intimate and an intimate act, near to the body experience. So the feeling that came up for me is how this simple act, this small act, is important for me. Then, in fact, I rarely wake up, but when I do wake up, I'm looking for my very special pillow Because it has a certain shape. And I don't have it with me here in the room of the hotel. So I have to fully wake up that I can shape this pillow I have here so that it's in the shape I'm used to.

[45:01]

And my sleeping is much more, you know, I can rest much better when the pillow is how I'm used to. So if I take this and apply it to having compassion with others, or being compassionate with others, or how I would wish that others are compassionate with myself, it is a combination of So there is this combination of a very intimate and closeness of human experience touching another human experience.

[46:21]

So that would be the way I would like others to express their compassion. And I would like that my capability would develop in that direction. So that was my first And that's the way I also can understand this somehow fairytale-like image of the 84,000 arms and hands. Right? Because at first glance, this is for me something like an oriental way of exaggeration. Hmm. First of all, like often when you are talking in front of people.

[47:55]

Although Roshi said it's not a very smart answer to say hands and eyes all over the body. I think it's a really very clever answer. Because I wouldn't answer it in a direction going toward the body. entering a certain body-mind and answering out of a certain state of body-mind.

[49:21]

So and what's also clever about this answer is that it's not a theoretical answer like you have to save the world or you have to do that and that, but It's only a single act. Which at the same time is a posture that you can apply again and again. So this is what touches me very much in this koan. And an intellectual question.

[50:33]

What is the wording in the original text of 80%? I think it says, my understanding of the translation, which I feel best, it's been in three collections that I know of. And Dawu says, you've said a lot there, brother. But it's only 80%. And my feeling into the 80% or the 81%. is if you feel the answer is 100%, you're missing something. So in the night, it's the ungraspable feeling. Also dieses in der Nacht, das ist dieses ungreifbare Gefühl.

[51:47]

And even to take a breath or make a gesture in some way introduces a crack of rationalization. Und sogar einfach nur einen Atemzug zu nehmen, das führt so etwas wie eine Ritze von Intellektualität da hinein. So I feel there's an aspect to 80%, which means you've said what could be said. If you keep saying more, you're going to be to 60%, 30%. It's enough. Don't say any more. And also for me, and I... The koan needs me to be alive, standing up in the middle of it to be complete. And it doesn't happen just once. It's not I'm standing up and now it's finished.

[52:50]

So kin him this morning. And we were doing qin hin in between the walking meditation. We're not walking to get someplace. I had a very beautiful feeling because people walked in a different pace, in a different way. In the Zendo, it's usually much more formalized, the spacing and the pace. I don't know exactly If for each of you this is true, but my feeling was that you were taking up the feeling from your sitting posture into a walking.

[54:18]

And I felt very moved by simply just walking. But saying this is 80%. My feeling concerning the koan has to do with appearance. One moment, please. So, and it's like the reaching for the pillow is made of the same mind as the pillow itself.

[55:37]

There is no inside and outside. And you can feel in that the pillow reaching for you. And the one at home too, that you didn't bring with you. Yeah. while I was listening to you. There was a feeling getting stronger, which I also had when I heard this koan for the first time.

[56:49]

So how it was like you were talking supported, that I could hear it more and more. Somehow feeling of tenderness and very simple. And the feeling of the image was like this would expand more and more this feeling. And the image of Avalokiteshvara with so many hands, arms, and eyes. So this the feeling arises like the whole world would be like that.

[58:03]

Like he or she would be everywhere. And I felt a longing for reciting the Heart Sutra together. I can't do it by heart, but maybe some others. Yes. She would also like to recite it together. Ich habe heute wieder so etwas erlebt, wo ich das Gefühl habe, dass wir das wieder fehlten. Jedes Mal so, am letzten Tag oder gegen Ende,

[59:16]

I experienced something again today which, and I am lucky, it seems to happen again and again, that at the end of the seminar it seems that I understood something with my heart and not with my mind. And what touched me so much was perceiving this kind of enormously big mindful attention And how careful you are in your thinking and talking. And also the listening. And listening how a teacher talks and how another person fully absorbed translates this.

[61:02]

So there was enormously much love present. So as a kind of metaphor for this love, I see the 84,000 arms and eyes. And this kind of edel... Exaggerated. Exaggerated. Exaggeration. Noble. Noble exaggeration. Noble exaggeration. It expresses for me this really deep, how refined this way of thinking and the fine, subtle, fine, refined, subtle, this thinking and feeling is.

[62:44]

And for me, the point And I was reminded of something I was talking to Hildred about and which also Eric brought up yesterday concerning the differences between psychotherapy and Buddhism. And with my inner desire of not judging or... It's very difficult for me... It's very difficult to imagine to face my clients as a therapist with having those 84,000 arms and hands and eyes because it's just not possible from the framework of time.

[64:04]

So there are... different dimensions which I can experience and which means what's possible in one space and what's possible in another space and I don't want to judge it. And I'm really grateful for these days and for this morning. With this note.

[65:04]

This morning, also during sitting, I felt a strong connection with the koan. And it's, from all koans I heard, it's the one which is most possible to enter in a bodily way. Body feeling. And in the morning it was really like the whole body, there were arms and eyes all over, and somehow it was like the border had disappeared. What we call outside and what we call inside wouldn't exist anymore.

[66:20]

So, wie geht es genau umgekehrt? Wie vielleicht im Horst? And I'm feeling the other way around of what Horst expressed. My feeling is if sometimes it's... If sometimes it happens that you can't be with clients or in a group with that feeling. Feeling what is necessary in exactly this situation.

[67:27]

It's not that I'm doing this or the client is doing this, but exactly this, where the This all together, also where these differences are dissolved. Somehow I have the feeling this is really something female. It's so much something female. Also the koan.

[68:38]

It's like other things. Before you started talking, I had a headache. And now they disappeared. Thank you. Thank you. Should we take a break?

[69:44]

Okay, let's take a break. Yeah, okay. I'm back at 20 to 12. Let's see if we are finished. Sorry. As... You can imagine. I appreciate it very much that the Dharma can be shared. That Paul and I can share the Dharma. And Eric and Christina and I. Yeah. And all of you can share the Dharma with Paul.

[70:47]

So, that this is possible is the center of my life, so it's not a small thing. And Dogen says something like, It's not understanding, it's picking up the Dharma and sharing it, which is practice. Now, I want to respond to Felix saying this exotic image of And of course it is that. And it's a bit scary for us even. I remember a movie I saw as a kid, Sinbad the Sailor.

[71:49]

The monster was some many-armed imitation of Avalokiteshvara. But if you, I think such an image is useful if you kind of imagine I find such images useful when they're really not so cultural, but rather there's no alternative. I mean, I think that if you share the worldview of where this comes from, there's not much alternative to this image. For example, if we take Paul's experience of the woman who had one arm. For her, one arm is still two arms. And if one arm is still two arms, then a thousand arms is still one arm.

[73:07]

If you think of the body as relationship, again, and not as a unit. And if we think of the body as a unit, then we feel it's mutilated, if it's, you know, like it's living next to an atomic nuclear plant or something. And when I was watching Sophia begin to take hold of things, First just bumping things, yeah. And then being able to actually grasp something and then to convey something back and forth through the arm. It's like I felt a circle around her, and any part of the circle could be an arm, but she couldn't quite reach herself into that circle yet.

[74:41]

So anyway, you can see where I'm going to. If you think of the body's activity, then it's sort of natural to start thinking of more arms. And when eye means understanding, as it does for us too, I see, I see the point. Yeah. Then it's everything is eyes. Dung Shan responded to Yun Yan about hearing insentient beings speak the Dharma.

[76:17]

It's a little poem that expresses his understanding. He said, I see it with the ears. Or I hear it with the eyes. Now, if I take also Eric saying you found what Yunyan said was not stupid at all. What I'm doing here is I'm just trying to find ways to talk about this so it can kind of seep in. And of course, you're right.

[77:32]

That in the context of the koan, that's not stupid. But in the context of Jungian's statement, if you look at it at that level, it's stupid. Stupid may be too strong. But it's a little bit like Groucho Marx asking, who's buried in Grant's tomb? But it's a bit like when Groucho Marx asks, who is buried in what? Grant's tomb. Grant's tomb? Bush Grant? General Grant. General Grant. It's a bit like when Groucho Marx asks, who is buried in Grant's grave? He had this quiz program, and everyone had to win. And if you didn't win any money in any of the questions, he finally asked you, who's buried in Grant's tomb?

[78:34]

And really, some people would say, could it be Grant? And then they won $32 or something. Do you remember that? The show is called You Bet Your Life. Anyway, So the problem is why the koan is... In a koan, the overall koan is presented... The whole thing is what you practice with. But within it, there's subtextual narratives...

[79:36]

But within the koans, there are sub-flowings that you practice. And they try to tell you something else. But don't give such an obvious answer, because we all know how this is depicted. And that is, for example, there is no such obvious answer, because we all know how it is depicted. So he's saying, you actually have to practice this. As Dogen says again, with skin, flesh, bones, and marrow. So this whole thing, as a yogic practice, is not philosophy. Also wiederum, als eine yogische Praxis ist das nicht Philosophie.

[80:49]

You come into it through skin, flesh, bones and marrow. Du gelangst dort hinein durch Haut, Fleisch, Knochen und Mark. And I think you'd like it that Dogen said the body understands first, the mind last. Und ich glaube, ihr mögt das, dass Dogen das sagt. Der Körper versteht das zuerst und der Geist am Schluss. Erst am Schluss, zuletzt. So, and as Guni pointed out, this is an act of imagination. And if sometimes we can feel that way, perhaps even with a client, it might be good. Yeah, and as Guni pointed out, Paul said, we stand up within that 80%. Yeah, and there's general understanding of saying in Buddhism that 80% is easy, it's the last 20% that's hard. Now someone asked, and Dogen also has a comment about this particular koan, where he says somebody named Shigong says, how do you grasp space?

[82:09]

Yeah, and then he gives a bunch of answers. Like sticking your fingers in somebody's nostrils. Ru Jing says, Dogen's teachers says it's like a mouth of a wind bell hanging in emptiness. Wind bell? And letting the tongue hang out? Yeah, letting the tongue hang out. That's right. It's like... You got it. That's what the translator does. The translator is like a bell with his tongue hanging out. It's the mouth of the windmill hanging in emptiness.

[83:37]

And this is actually a feeling, I think in physics they have this sense of potentiality space. And potentiality space is something that actually has a mathematical reality. Like in chaos there's a hidden order. So this sense of, you know, these are all attempts at people to kind of, you know, give us a feeling for something. So if someone asked me, how do you grasp space? Perhaps I'd pick up a glass of water. Yeah. Or perhaps I'd straighten my posture.

[84:40]

Or I might say something dumb like, it's my finger holding my finger. Now are these meant to be kind of astute philosophical responses? Are these meant to be astute philosophical responses? Smart. Accurate. No, they're just meant to kind of nudge us into a certain feeling. So various people have responded to this, how do you grasp space? With this question, Dogen says... he's responding to reaching for your pillow, or he's responding to hands and eyes.

[85:49]

Someone else said, in answer to how do you grasp space, there's no gap to let space in. Es gibt keine Lücke, um den Raum hereinzulassen. That's real accurate, there's no gap. Und das ist wirklich genau, da ist keine Lücke, die daran hindert, den Raum hereinzulassen. But, you know, you have to kind of, it has to hit you, because you can't think it. Und das muss dich wirklich treffen, denn du kannst das nicht denken. Yeah, or someone else said it's like a ball bouncing here and there. And that's another aspect of it. For instance, if I tried to say something intellectual about that, Space is generated by what we do.

[86:53]

Like the big bang made space as it expanded. So we're making space all the time and it's more here and more there and so on. Now, I said yesterday that most people, maybe it was kind of arrogant to say so, but I said most people, I think, in Western Buddhism don't really practice these things like the four marks. I think it's actually just partly a matter of time. It takes quite a lot of decades to open up a layer of practice. But it's also that way, I think, because they don't practice it in Asia either.

[88:12]

Because in general, Buddhism is not practiced anymore in Asia very technically. Yes. Not anymore? Not anymore. I mean, I don't know. That's my impression. But when I was outside, Walter was there. And he was looking at the sky. And I was feeling how one basic practice is to, when you ever have a chance, identify your mind with the sky. So these things are practiced this way. If you identify your mind with the sky, and you have a habit of doing that, you shift into a mind of appearance.

[89:22]

That's where space bounces here and there. A mind of appearance, not a mind of appearance. of permanence. Now, I had quite a bit I thought it would be fun to talk about in relationship to emptiness. And I think perhaps we did the most important thing, which is work with this sense of appearance. And really maybe a sense of the difference between seeing things appear with the mind of permanence

[90:34]

A mind of implied or assumed permanence. And really using appearance as a way to practice and generate the mind of appearance. which would also be a mind of emptiness. Now, how or why this is so, I'm trying to give you a feeling for it. You know, as I think yoga was probably developed by stiff old men, who realized they'd better stretch and loosen up.

[91:42]

I think a lot of these understandings were developed because you can't understand these things. A lot of these teachings were developed because you can't understand these things. So you need to develop some sort of surgical process like the four marks and five dharmas. Once you've got that down, You can develop more... You can come to more poetic or subtle ways of speaking about it. Yeah, but my sense of practice in the West, we have to go back to, you know...

[92:44]

more technically developing and understanding. Some of us get it from a statement like grasping space is like a ball bouncing here and there. Well, there's no gap to let space in. Now, I, knowing the time, I wonder, is there time enough or do we have to go continue this next year? I never know what's going to happen. Maybe this will take five minutes. You know, just a couple of things I have to say. Or maybe I'll go too fast and you should slow me down.

[94:05]

And if I do, just slow me down. Or maybe I'll go too slow and we'll really have to continue for several more years. That's a good idea actually. So this is an expanding ball. It could be teeny, it could be big. Okay, so partly here in talking about emptiness, we're talking about the directionality of emptiness. Now, I really want you to get this idea of directionality. We automatically almost think in terms of entities. So you're here or there.

[95:20]

But in terms of a practice which emphasizes relationships, functioning, connectedness, the direction you are in a spectrum is the same as being at either point. Now, to give you a kind of mechanical example, if you put your bags down, your suitcases, your bags now, you feel you're putting your things down. Yes. Not only in a way are you practicing emptiness, but the putting things down functions like the presence of emptiness. If you're picking things up, you're moving to a differentiation.

[96:25]

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