Also, it seems that you're saying that the location is our body and implying could there be a non-bodily location? That's not what you mean, but it sounds like that's what you said in English. So where does the body come in in what you said? This means that physically in the body I can move somewhere. Perhaps I can feel it more in my left hand, and I can shift it over to my right. That's practical. Okay? So, you know, this is... This stuff is obvious.

[01:14]

And it's not obvious at the same time because we don't often think about it. And so it's good to look at these things in very basic ways so you kind of build your your sense of vocabulary of mind. Okay, so let's now speak just about presence. You can have a presence in your right hand which takes hold of your left hand. Your left hand becomes kind of an object and your right hand is doing it. It's not so different than if I pick up the bell. But I then can shift the presence to the left hand and take hold of the right hand. That's quite interesting, actually, that we can shift. In a similar way, you can shift a whole mode of mind within the body. Now, when you shift a mode, mode is actually a better word than state of mind.

[02:35]

And I would probably always say mode of mind instead of state of mind, but in English sentences, mode of mind sometimes sounds kind of funny. Mode is a more accurate word than state. So, if you... Now, one way... One good way to get an insight into the chakras is to recognize that there are places where you can locate the mind. You can locate your mind anywhere, but it's harder to locate it in your left shoulder than it is in your chakra. Okay, so you can move the mode of mind to say, this chakra, your heart chakra.

[04:00]

And when I move, say, a mind of a certain kind of awareness to this chakra, functions one way. And you're correct if I move it to this chakra, the same sense of awareness, it will then function differently. So if we all had the skill to move our mind, say, from our head or throat or chest to our hara. If, say, 80% of us could do it, then the other 20% would have a hard time resisting.

[05:07]

And we'd have a different kind of conversation. Now, one of the techniques of Sashin is to create a situation where one or two people can move everyone's, location of everyone's mind. And this becomes so powerful that, you know, if you actually did scientific tests on people's metabolism and brainwave patterns, everyone's, and left and right, they all start coming into sequence, not just left and right in one person, but all people's left and right begin to work in consonance. And that is so powerful, that if one were to do a scientific study about the metabolism, about the brain waves, and so on, of people, then the left and right brain waves would

[06:10]

And my opinion is that many public figures, I talked to someone about this the other day, politicians, movie actors, etc., singers, When they're really famous, it's not because their voice is good or they happen to be good actors. It's because the ability to move other people's minds through their voice and their body. It's a kind of maybe genetic gift. And dangerous gift. And sometimes we call it charisma or something. But, you know, if you meet some big politician, you know, type person, everyone's back can be turned.

[07:29]

When they walk in the room, everyone feels it. So part of Buddhist practice is to say, okay, these things happen, let's make it our own power, not just something that some people have, you know. So if I'm talking with you and I emphasize one chakra or then I switch to another chakra, I speak differently to you, but I still am aware of you in a particular way. So that's a little riff on moving the mind.

[08:32]

And not entirely within the topic of way-seeking mind, but part of our understanding how we function as... if you're doing this Buddhist practice. Now, the mind can also be moved within the mind, not just within the body. Okay, so now let's try to keep it simple, though. What we usually need is a simple example that once we get the simple example we can internalize that and extend it and notice more subtle examples. So let's just foreground and background. Okay, now foreground mind is usually a more conscious mind.

[09:34]

Foreground mind integrates the senses into a coherent picture. And background mind is conscious, but it's more responsive to the modalities of the unconscious and... other processes. The background mind is more settled in intention and certain views of how things exist. and doesn't integrate the senses into a coherent picture, but is more open to them randomly.

[10:48]

Okay, so we could say that way-seeking mind, to stick with this same subject, is a mind of readiness and acceptance. It's usually way in the background, even in the background of background mind. And you can bring that into foreground mind. So then it relates to sense impressions in a different mode than usual consciousness. But it's more accessible to sense impressions than it was when it was in the background of the mind. So then it begins to lead us because this mind of acceptance in our foreground mind notices things with more clarity and completeness. So it actually leads you, because whatever is present to you produces your actions.

[12:23]

Yes. This very second one, This way-seeking mind? Yes. If you bring it to intention, what is the relationship then to intention? Because intention to accept and take things as they are, is this the same? Deutsch. Die Beziehung zwischen dem Wegsuchenden Geist und der Absicht, Sachen zu akzeptieren, wie sie kommen oder wie sie sind. Intention to accept art? To accept things as they are. There must be a difference. I'm not sure I understand exactly your question, but let me respond anyway.

[13:32]

Because it's hard to understand ourselves exactly. This is quite, you know, rather subtle. The intention... to accept things as they are, is an activity of the conscious mind, within which, through wisdom or intuition or whatever. You see that it makes sense to accept things as they are. But the activity of comparative mind is not to accept things as they are. So into the activity of comparative mind you introduce the medicine of accepting things as they are. And it may or may not

[14:33]

make your usual comparative mind more accepted. But this way-seeking mind has no intention to accept. It just accepts. Absolutely accepts. I mean, an intention is already something divisive. So you could say that... The intention to accept things as they are is way-seeking mind sending out a scout. See if you can convert comparative mind. And if you can convert comparative mind into Buddhist into a Buddhist mind then the natural wisdom our natural Buddhist wisdom will come forward into foreground mind okay it's pretty clear yes

[16:08]

The word seeking also implies the word finding. What am I going to find? And the word... Wie war der letzte? Oder müsste es auch nicht heißen, der Weg finden? Could it not also be the way-finding mind? And what would be the difference? What comes from that, from that difference? Yeah, actually I think all in all, the teachings associated with way-seeking mind might be better translated as way-finding mind. Something I sometimes would say that way, way-finding mind. Okay. But the problem is with that is there's really nothing to find.

[17:47]

And the finding leads to the next finding. So then maybe seeking is on the whole better because it suggests a movement. But if you understand the practice, then you can call it wayfinding mind or wayseeking mind. Yeah, I found it. Now it's gone. So what time are we supposed to have lunch? One o'clock. One o'clock. Something else? What's the difference between original mind and way-seeking mind? I have only begun

[18:55]

to say something about way-seeking mind. I've only spoken about one of several aspects. So I think we can better speak of it in relationship to original mind when we look at more of the aspects of way-seeking mind. I think we can speak better in comparison to the original mind if we have illuminated more aspects. Yes. Is this sort of too much or is this okay? Does this make sense? Is this discussion useful to some of you, most of you? Okay, thanks. You see, my feeling is, you know, somebody said to me, Or I heard someone said, anyway, actually.

[20:15]

Is that they used to find my talks very intellectual, and now they don't find them intellectual at all. Yeah. Now, I think that it's good to use the intellect. But I actually do not think my talks are intellectual. For instance, if you're all familiar with the car, and I point out, oh, that's a fender. What's a fender? I don't need a fender so often. Yeah, but you see, he would find my conversation about a card very intellectual.

[21:19]

It's like, oh! I see. A fender is that which covers the tire. You thought it was the bumper. Yeah. I didn't know this would be such a good example. So if I said to someone who knew everything about a car in English, and I said, this is a fender and that's a bumper, and that's the hood, the hood is what's over the engine. I don't know the German terms. The engine is under the hood.

[22:50]

Nobody who knew cars would think that was intellectual. It was just told. Why is he saying that? We all know that. But I'd like at some point to be able to say to you, This is way-seeking mind, this is foreground mind, and it was no different than saying fender, hood, etc. So that when you can be in the driver's seat of your own mind and body. Okay, something else? Yes? How do you use your way-seeking mind in everyday life? For example, in planning, creating projects. especially when you are on the way to create a center on the other side of the world.

[24:12]

By which idea do you know it's for you and for this your right way? You mean Johannesov, right? For example. For example. Deutsch? Well, mostly I depend on my friends. Like Eric and Gerald, Kiesler and so on. And you guys? And I'm not on the other side of the world, I'm here. I'm never on the other side of the world.

[25:14]

I'm always here. My telephone bills tell a different story. Yeah, well, you know, a certain amount of information, I gather a certain amount of information from people, you know. Like Nico takes me, goes to the train station with me and... So I, you know, I have a lot of information and We've talked about doing a center for some years.

[26:14]

And just as you have implied, I gather all this information with my comparative mind. And as best as possible think it through and see what's clear and what makes sense. But then I actually sort of take that and bring it to my way-seeking mind. The mind of absolute truth. non-comparing acceptance. And if that mind says yes, if that mind completely accepts it, then I say, oh, let's do it.

[27:19]

And then I'm very clear in myself that it will work. And then some people ask me, well, how do you know it'll work? Well, I can now try to use my comparative mind to convince you. But it's not my comparative mind that's convinced me. It's my way-seeking mind that has convinced me. And it's very clear to me that this is the way. So I have no doubt. And I don't... And I don't let any obstacles stand in my way. That's also characteristic of way-seeking mind. One of its aspects is there's no obstacles that can stop it. Even failure doesn't stop it.

[28:20]

And if there's failure, it's okay. So whatever comes from it is okay, it's the way. So from the point of view of way-seeking mind, Johanneshoff failed. Then from that point of view, I would feel what we should have done is tried to buy Johanneshoff and then failed. That's how I'd feel. Somebody might say I'm crazy, but that would be how I feel. But I'm very pleased it seems to be succeeding. So far, so good.

[29:28]

But Gerald and Gisela know this quite well since we've done this twice now. Here we are in this huge valley with no people. On this high mountain with no people. Just Gerald and Gisela and me sometimes. Because sometimes I'm on the other side of the world. And Grau says, do we have to stay here all alone? Can't we have more people? And I say, this is the way. Thank you so much. Isn't that true? I just said, just trust. So I just felt, if we're patient, something will happen. And this mind is way down here, and it just says, yes.

[30:33]

I can't explain it, but that's how I feel. Yeah, okay. So if you have all the facts and figures collected by your comparative mind, so how do you transport it to your comparative mind and how do you treat it? Oh, that's a secret. Maybe I tell you later. A rock hanging over. Is das Intuition? The word intuition?

[31:34]

Yes. The way seeking mind. You said, I have no doubt. It's in my stomach. It's intuition? Well, I think intuition... Deutsch, please. Ist das eine Intuition, dieses Bauchgefühl? I think intuition is a primitive word for those who don't understand how the mind works. For a Buddhist, there's no intuition. It's very clear. But intuition is when it's not so clear, so something pushes forward. We say, oh, that's my intuition. And if you study what people mean by intuition, it covers many different aspects of mind, actually. But intuition is okay. Yeah. But also the problem is women have more of it than men.

[32:45]

So we men have to practice Buddhism harder. There must be equality in this modern age. And we men are behind. So we need Buddhism. Yes. what you just described as answer for him. It's very clear from my intuition, but on a logical sense I bowed against it because you said You will have it in your normal mind and then you transport it to your way-seeking mind. And if the way-seeking mind does accept it, then you will do it.

[33:51]

But you said the way-seeking mind is always accepting everything. Your comparative mind is working way there. Deutsch? I think it is very clear to me what Roshi just described as an answer, that he first has such a process that he tests it in his normal comparative mind whether a project makes sense and then checks it with his way-seeking mind and if it is accepted there, then he will practice the process. Way-seeking mind always accepts what it accepts. Some things it doesn't accept.

[34:56]

Some things it rejects. So that's why way-seeking mind is a guide. Because if it accepts, it only accepts what's acceptable. It won't accept somebody's death who hasn't died. Sometimes we say it's like a... the ocean, which rejects dead bodies. Dead bodies fell to the surface and onto the shore usually. So the idea is that this metaphor is used to suggest that big mind or way-seeking mind won't accept what's dead.

[36:01]

So, I mean, this is, you know, whatever we say, there's something wrong. All sentences infinitely regress. I mean, if you try to make any sentence completely clear, it eventually regresses into everything or nothing. So way-seeking mind allows us to discover the way because it won't accept what's not acceptable. And it's unequivocal about it.

[37:04]

You just feel it. And a simple answer to your latter question is, for example, to say that something's going on in your life that you have to make a decision about. Just sit zazen, two or three periods, and bring that into your zazen, and you will think about it differently. It's kind of a simple way in which we bring something into another state of mind. Okay. Yes? I keep myself busy with my... Ich beschäftige mich immer wieder mit Sprache. Which language? Italian, German, English?

[38:05]

French. Japanese? The real-sized ones. Yeah, okay. There's a joke by Stevie Wright in American... that goes, I have a map of the United States, real scale, one-to-one. Last summer I tried to fold it. And that's how I think about language. I've been here trying to fold something like that. And I don't know when I started, I don't know if it was last summer, but it's exhausting me. I don't know. Well, there's a joke by an American comedian who says he has a card from America and it's 1 to 1 and last year he tried to put them together. And that's how I feel about language. It just exhausts me. Quite a good joker. That's what all European tourists try to do. America's big.

[39:07]

So what, again, specifically is your problem with language? That I can't get specific. Well, we'd have to talk more personally about it perhaps, but the basic problem is our mind, our conscious mind, is pretty much made of language. And how to free the conscious mind from... Language is the task of meditation. And usually you have to first shift your identification away from language. To a mode of mind not identified with language.

[40:28]

Or to your breath or something. And then, once you've freed your sense of identification from the fabric of language, you can bring it back to conscious mind, but not into the language aspect of consciousness. Now, the way I'm being specific is usually more the pedagogy of Buddhism rather than the teaching of Buddhism.

[41:34]

Because if I'm going to be a teacher, I have to know how these things function in a way clear enough that I can use the teachings in a way that's clear. If I'm going to teach, I have to understand in a conceptual way how we function. Now, I shouldn't confuse that conceptual understanding with how we actually function. But the conceptual understanding has to be clear enough to allow me to teach clearly. Even though I know we are much more subtle and wide beings than anything conceptual. So normally the way I'm speaking, only teachers talk to each other about. And so, now, Do only teachers talk this way with each other about practice because they're keeping it a secret from the practitioners?

[42:58]

And unfortunately, sometimes that's the reason. This is a kind of let's keep it secret so we can control of the lineage or something. But, you know, that's just kind of the... the... approach of rather undeveloped people, I would say. The deeper reason, and the reason it occurs at all, if you understand it too conceptually, you there's a tendency to mistake the conception for the truth.

[43:59]

And then that interferes with your practice. It interferes with the freedom of your practice. It gives you a map which you can't fold. And we don't want to give you a map. The essence of way-seeking mind is to always be in unexplored territory. Yes, so it often easily can interfere with your practice or give you the sensation that understanding is understanding. And understanding is not understanding. Practice is understanding.

[45:04]

So Buddhism is not the truth. It's only a way to bring you to the doorstep of truth. So if you don't practice, Buddhism is, you know, just a bunch of stuff, you know. It may be helpful, but it's still not serious. And some of you, you're understanding definitely, the smarter ones of you, your understanding definitely gets ahead of your practice. And then since you understand better than those who practice more, you have some special confidence. Because our society Rewards understanding more than practice.

[46:04]

But sometimes, like Suzuki Roshi, in some ways as a young man he was quite slow. But he understood Buddhism extremely deeply. Because he always brought everything to practice. Yeah. My question is, if I bring something from the background in the foreground or if I change my state of mind, who is the I? From where are the sources of this I? That's a good question.

[47:23]

There is a permanent I or some kind of permanent observing observer is so reinforced in our culture it's very hard to see around it. So I'd like to leave that till later. Maybe I speak about it in the afternoon. And if I don't, please remind me. I like to be reminded. You've had something? Yes. Isn't it the case that the way-seeking mind or the way-finding mind is the mind of letting go, for example?

[48:32]

So for instance, if I take the example of a car, if the car stops because there is some problem and I'm opening the hood, look into the engine and try to find it out by myself and maybe somebody passes by who could help me but I don't notice him because I'm so absorbed in looking and finding the reason for the problem. Yeah, you want to let go enough to also notice the guy who comes by to help you. Yeah, letting go is one of the aspects of way-seeking mind.

[50:01]

Makes me think of the joke from Volkswagens when they first came out in America, you know, that the engine was in the back. One of the most common jokes was some old lady who comes along and says, tries to help you, and says, oh, I've got an extra engine in my back. LAUGHTER And then a lady asks herself, who drives a Beetle and says, I have a problem, I have an extra engine in the back. Sorry, it shows how old I am. Yes. You know that the way seeking mind and taking precepts are very near together. So is it true that when I take precepts it's kind of a mental way?

[51:06]

So instead of asking my mind, I ask the way? Yes. The blessings to be taken are very closely related. Do I have the right opinion when I say that my blessings to be taken is a kind of experiment, i.e. experimental approach to this path? Instead of asking my spirit how it goes on, do I ask it the way? Yes. He was letting go. Did it translate his question? I know, but I didn't understand it. And you said more in German than you did in English, so... A mental way for the way-seeking mind.

[52:35]

Is it true when I ask, instead of asking my mind, asking the way? Yes. Of course. Is that answer enough, or do you want me to say something? The answer is yes, yeah. Yeah, yeah. You know, when we... I think we should stop in a moment and get ready for lunch and so forth. When you really accept, yes, this is how we exist. And you take the precepts to just live in accord with other people.

[53:38]

To live in a way that's in accord with other people. This is the thought of enlightenment. The thought of enlightenment is generally translated as the desire to save all sentient beings. But the word save for us in the West is a very salvational idea. A further translation would be the desire to be in accord with all of sentience. So to take the precepts is to arouse the thought of enlightenment. for the wish to be in accord with all of sentience.

[54:42]

To recognize this as a vision and potential is the thought of enlightenment. So this recognition, just to accept how we exist, is also a way-seeking mind and the thought of enlightenment. So we don't ask this of ourselves with our usual mind. We ask ourselves with the mind that's in deepest accord with how we exist. And the mind that's in deepest accord with how we exist. We also call the mind which seeks the way. And so practice is how to recognize that and bring that out into our life. So let's sit for a few minutes. And it's wonderful to talk with you through my friend.

[56:35]

You can mostly trust him, but, you know... He has a mind of his own. I remember, can I tell you one more story of my daughter? When Sally was very little, I asked her, maybe we were in Japan when we first went, she was so three or so. I asked Sally to do something, she didn't want to do it. And I said, you have to do it. No. I said, you have to do it because Virginia and I made you and you belong to us.

[57:38]

Virginia and I made you and you belong to us. And she said, it's too late now, I belong to me. And Sally said, it's too late, I belong to myself. So I... So for all of us it's too late now. So we each have to make our own decision. Take the precepts or to practice. Discover our true mind. I guess it was suggested that we have a meeting tonight.

[60:03]

And if I can come too, I would like to. Well, it makes it have to be in English, or some of it in English. But also, I think, especially for the new folks who are here, Not new to yourself, but new to us. I think that what we're doing here, there's some implicit questions. Like, what is the... mix of monastic and lay practice that makes sense. And how does the schedule work for you and so forth? So, you know, it would be nice to have a kind of sangha or friendly meeting just to talk about anything we want to.

[61:19]

What do you think, 8.15, 8.30? Let's shoot for 8.15 and start at 8.00. All right. Is there anything you'd like to bring up that we can discuss? Jo, yes. Is there anything that makes it easier to transition from one state of mind to the other? Is it difficult to transition? Maybe Deutsch? I think probably the difficulty is if you go from a mental state to a mental state and that you leave your body behind, it's difficult.

[62:39]

Well, I think one difficulty is when you go from one mental state to another mental state and leave your body behind. I have to translate him sometimes. You know, I don't know, but my own feeling is the more a mental state is also a bodily state, then it's easier and more fluid. Anyway, I think so. Okay. something else. Yes? Within the question, what is mind? No one knows. That's very Keno. Yeah.

[63:59]

In Buddhism it means many things. And there's no such word exactly as mind in Buddhism. So you have to talk about the functions of mind. and mind basically as a general term in English used as a Buddhist term, mind as an English Buddhist term means all that which makes us alive. So there's no boundaries to it. So words in general in Buddhism are not used with the sense of having a precise definition.

[65:07]

They're used to point at activities. But not just to define those activities. That's enough to say for now. In our course it was very difficult to speak about race-seeking mind because in that moment we try to grasp it, it flows away so no one says any more sometimes. German? In the moment when we tried to grasp it I think way-seeking mind is something that you can experience.

[66:12]

It's quite a difficult thing to define. It's difficult to define the experience. It was also very difficult for us to speak about the experience. Speaking about the experience is not the same as knowing the experience. I think probably all of you know the experience. But knowing it and making it more... Present in its knowing is practice. But I'll try to speak about it more. For instance, Dogen says... I'm saying this to confuse you more.

[67:15]

Dogen says, when... When the self moves forward and illuminates all things, this is delusion. When myriad things come forth and illuminate the self, this is awakening. That's what he said, you know. Optimist. Pessimist. Yeah, mist. In German, mist is mess.

[68:40]

It means mess? Yeah. And in English, it means you didn't get it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I just said it. When the self moves forward and illuminates myriad things, this is delusion. When myriad things come forth and illuminate the self, this is enlightenment. Before we leave tomorrow, you'll understand this. If it doesn't make sense already.

[69:52]

This is one of the most famous statements of Dogen in the opening, the second part of the Genjo Koan. Okay. What else? Yeah. We started out trying to talk about what it is and what it isn't. And then we got to, well, we might Honestly, better call it intuition, because that's maybe about as far as we are. And then we decided to get, or someone suggested that we get closer to experiencing. Someone said, basically, a lot of people reported experiences and one person said it's more an exception, like a clearing, and normality is a more clean way.

[71:24]

Messy. Messy? Or mixed up. So, obviously, My questions were how to make those clear, or how to remove what stands in the way, like habitual conditioning, And someone said that it seems to be a decision that you take each moment again and again and again. Did you translate as you went along? Yes. Yes? Sorry, it's totally different, I think.

[72:36]

A question which is in my heart since a few days. I don't know if it has to do with mind-seeking. Is this what you called being born? and to die in this moment. My mind is seeking for the way to find this. You can say it in German, if you will. Okay. For days now, I've been reading a sentence that Rushdie said some time ago, more or less through my eyes, through my heart, even if it's something different thematically. So, I don't know. So the phrase you gave us several days ago is on my mind and on my heart since that time that is birth and death in the same, to die and to be born in every moment.

[74:05]

And I'm trying to grasp that since then. Yeah, good. No, I don't think you do. I mean, you're sharing it is good. The fact that your intuition, your... subtle body, something like that, has taken hold of this question. This is already the activity of wisdom. To just hear that and let it go by, this is not the activity of wisdom. So you didn't advance to this question through yourself.

[75:07]

Somehow myriad things allowed this to appear in you and stick in you. So the fact that it's stuck in you is the activity of wisdom. So please trust this activity. And let it incubate. And when myriad things illuminate the self, then this is good. So this that's stuck in you may illuminate. you in some way, in some small way or big way. So you don't need any help.

[76:08]

Your wisdom body has taken hold of this. I couldn't make this happen. Your wisdom body is helping you. So now, don't have too much comparative thinking. Just let it stay there. Okay. Anything else? Yeah. We had in our group this question to have this secure and safe feeling to know where the whale is leading. And after some time, maybe some weeks or days, this security has left again.

[77:29]

So, I'm sorry. Yes? Is there another measure or indicator to know how to practice the right way? Just keep practicing. It's not understanding, it's doing. And understanding notices, but understanding can't make it happen. Understanding can sometimes clear the path, but that's the most it can do.

[78:32]

I like it when somebody I don't know speaks because I love hearing your voice. Thank you. I like hearing the old voices too. Something else? Yes, we also talked about... An old voice. ...about what is the way, what is the way in practice. We can search for the way for practical decision, that's your example when you use it. or meditation is something like a technique, but it can be more than that. We also talked about the technique of focusing and there are some similar processes.

[79:44]

You mean the psychological process of school of focusing? Yes, and it was a question in which way Zen goes farther than that. Not allowed. George? We also talked about what the path is, what it could be about, whether there are daily decisions, like this one, for example, in the farm. And... We compared this with focusing, how much Zen meditation can be a practical technique, like the others, or how far it can go beyond that. Well, I know a tiny bit about focusing, but not enough to compare it to.

[80:50]

And I don't like to compare things to Zen practice anyway. You can compare them, but this is all I know, Zen, so... Now, I can speak a little bit about some of the things I've heard, if you want, but is there anybody else who has something that you'd like to say, pressing or otherwise? Yes? I just wanted to add to our group that we have the question of who is deciding and how do we make everyday life decision and... kind of seeking the balance between comparative mind or rational mind and the way-seeking mind, and how can we let that come up?

[81:53]

And to be an individual, very individual, very subjective, so hard to put in words, And my understanding, what it boils down to, is that it's very deeply connected with our Zen practice. So that really is helping do the shift. Yeah, we have also a group of... You ask, who decides, how do we make decisions in everyday life, to establish the balance between the rational, comparing mind and the way-seeking mind. And it appeared to be a very personal, also very subjective process to understand the mind, but ultimately possible through practice, in whatever form. Well, I promised her that I would speak to this question.

[82:58]

I will try, yes. I just want to add what was talked about in our group. I don't want to leave any group out. I think it was a problem of understanding to clarify the background of these concepts by the differentiating spirit and the accepting one. First of all, there were certain problems of understanding of the concept of the comparative mind and the accepting mind, and the background mind and the foreground mind.

[84:00]

And how they are connected and interrelated And there were certain people who spoke about certain experiences of this way-seeking mind in our group For instance, a car accident or some personal decision where it was rather clear which way was to go. For me personally, there is the question how this way-seeking mind can be compared with an inner compass. who can express the mood of things on a deeper level and also through a kind of dissatisfaction.

[85:52]

And this inner compass on a deeper level knows whether things are in accordance or right or not. And my question is also whether dissatisfaction and And discomfort is also a kind of indicator for that. Okay. Yeah. Well, let me speak in general about several things and including what you said. Okay, and then, you know, if somebody wants to bring up something else or some group I didn't hear anything about, you want to bring it up later, that's fine.

[87:06]

Koan, I told you I'd do this, Koan 83 in the Blue Cliff Records. Jungmann said, in the hall, Buddha and pillar merge. What kind of activity is this? And then he answered for everyone. On South Mountain, clouds gather. On North Mountain, rain falls. Maybe you understand already. Anyway, this is a koan which speaks to what we've been discussing.

[88:28]

It also says, you know, in the commentary it says, in the eastern house someone dies. In the Western house, someone mourns. This single compounded activity cannot be grasped. And then the commentary says, oh, no rain fell at all. Or half a drop fell north of the river and half a drop fell south of the river. This is poetry, but it's actually more philosophy, a kind of philosophy than poetry. It's more a kind of philosophy than poetry. You know, I like it.

[89:40]

Buddha and pillar merge. And Sukhiroshi said, when we bow to Buddha, we don't ask, what kind of Buddha is it? As if you're going to decide whether you bow or not. Is it nirmanakaya Buddha or avalokiteshvara? No, just bow like a child. Now this isn't just schmalzy kind of behavior. This is something, you know, some kind of mind. Yeah, there's a Bodhisattva in the Lotus Sutra who's trying to manifest this mind. His practice was just to bow to everyone he met.

[90:46]

How do you bring this mind into your activity? to discover everything in a single suchness. This is also in this koan. Okay. Now, it's natural for us to try to understand this in our own terms. But that's almost always a mistake. It's better to try to get a feeling for it in some way that's accessible to you, but not to try to understand it.

[92:05]

The word intuition, for example, is a problem. If you use the word intuition, Yeah, okay, but be careful. Because there's some kind of implication there that these experiences, Buddhist experiences, These Buddhist realms of experience are also in our Western culture, German or American culture. And if that were true, there would be no reason for me to be here teaching. The fact is, different cultures are different. If you look at the plumbing diagram of a house, it's different than the electrical diagram of a house.

[93:17]

It's the same house, but it's quite different. Which diagram you look at. You know, they both flow through pipes and wires. But, you know, don't put the wire in the water pipe. So there's some danger trying to make things too similar. Or some of you, I mean all of you sleep sometimes. I'm quite sure. But I'm sure some of you have trouble sleeping. You know what sleep is, but it's quite difficult to go to sleep.

[94:25]

And if you're a person who has trouble going to sleep sometimes, even though you know what sleep is, it's very difficult to go to sleep. You might lie there in bed for, you know, one hour or two hours saying, Please, I'd like to go to sleep. One solution is to get up and do Zaza and you must always fall asleep.

[94:56]

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