Well, the discussion took a long time. Does that mean it was a good discussion or you never got started? So please tell me something. Oh, thank you. In the beginning of the discussion we spoke about as many people mentioned that they make a decision from a bodily feeling. And I noticed that everyone speaks of a physical feeling, but when asking, it was then rather very difficult for the individuals to articulate what it is.

[01:10]

And I noticed that everybody seems to speak about this bodily feeling but when I questioned what that actually means then it seemed rather difficult for people to express or articulate what this bodily feeling would be. From myself I know the process of choosing and this is how it usually works. But I do think or ponder about things, but in the end I leave it up to my feeling to decide what I'm actually going to do. And of course that is accompanied by physical or bodily feelings. But at the same time, for myself, I would not just call this a bodily feeling.

[02:15]

Calling it just that would not really encompass the whole thing for me. And then Otmar introduced the concept of a field from which the decision can be made into the discussion. And I can imagine it could be like that. It would be much closer to my feeling of what's happening. Okay. Yes? I think that this is because we don't have a differentiated terminology for what we feel.

[03:25]

I think that the physical is used so often, also in addition to thinking rationally. But the difference between feeling and feeling, for example, and experiencing emotionally are three different things. And I think we just don't have the exact term for what we experience. I think we just don't have that. And that's why we turn to the physical, even though it's not physically or biologically physical. I think we lack a differentiated terminology for what we're experiencing. And we use the term bodily feeling or experiencing in lack of something more precise or more fine term. And so we have the sensing, we have the feeling, we have the emotional experiencing.

[04:33]

It's just a few simple examples, but I think the bodily is still to cause, I mean, it doesn't cover the finesse of our experiences. That's one example. lack, how shall I say, so this is what we have to develop. What would cover the finesse of our experiences? It can be experienced, but it's really hard to express. I think it can be expressed, examples one has had in his life, and they think this can be transmitted to others somehow, somewhat, but the terminology is still lacking. Yeah. Of course it's possible there's no terminology possible. I mean, I think what you say is true. But there's a line in these koans, the messenger's a mute, he can point out, but he can't explain.

[05:34]

Can you say the last part again? The messenger is a mute and he can point out but he can't explain. Yes. So it happens to me once or twice a month that I call my daughter, Marie, who lives 800 kilometers away from me, and my body goes to the phone, doesn't pick up the number, but only picks it up, and she's on it. At the same moment she It happens to me once or twice a month that I want to call my daughter Marie, who's living 800 kilometers away.

[06:46]

And what then happens is that my body walks towards the telephone and picks up the receiver and then doesn't dial the number, but she's on the phone already because she just called at the very exact same moment. And it's like winning the lottery. It's like that. I can't make it happen and tell myself I'm going to call Marie now and it's going to work again. It just has to happen by itself. Okay, in the next lottery you better have Marie pick the ticket. Thank you. That does happen, doesn't it? I mean, science will deny it, but many of us experience it. Yes, Suzanne.

[08:12]

In this discussion we also spoke about responsibility for decisions. And on the one hand, I notice all the time what kind of assumptions are at the base of my worldview and that I also can vary these assumptions. But at the same time I also noticed that I still move within a reality that I created. For example, when we moved to Russia, I said to myself, I'm not going to go there and then act not in accordance with or against my sense of what can be done in a judicial, legal way.

[09:53]

Yeah. And Eddie just said, then you cannot go. And, yeah, I would not have a visa if I had stuck to that assumption. I see. You have to pay someone to get the visa or something. I work as an officer now as something else than I am, so it started with other people That's not how I really thought deep into it. No, I'm not doing that. And now my official job is something else from what I'm actually doing. So it started out already by asking me to do things that I initially thought I wouldn't want to do. And I read the newspaper there every day and I'm always scared about what's possible within the human world.

[10:57]

And I read the newspaper daily and I keep being astonished and struck, shocked by what's possible within our human... What people do. What people do. I know. So for me, it's a question, what are these basic assumptions, some kind of fundamental laws that I will always stick to? No matter what. Okay, yeah. That's good, thanks. A report from the front lines. Yeah. Yes? My experience is that I often can't make a decision very well.

[12:08]

And then out of not necessity, but out of almost agony or something, I listen within myself. And I try to listen to what feels right and what feels wrong. And sometimes something feels dark or something may feel bright. And if I follow that feeling, then oftentimes the situation confirms the feeling. And now I have this feeling that there are right moments and wrong moments for things. And right decisions and wrong decisions.

[13:23]

And actually that makes it more difficult because I don't want to act wrongly. So what I would like to ask is, is there something like a right or a wrong decision? Going through a red light. Okay. And hitting somebody on a bicycle. But I think your point about, what Dogen points out as well as you, that time ripens. And ideally you develop a feeling for time ripens, and time ripens through circumstances.

[14:28]

So in a way you make the decision, but also you let the ripening time tell you when to make the decision. Now, then we can add the question, can we study the ripening of time? Exactly. That is what I wanted to talk about. Yeah, Marie told me.

[15:29]

Marie, Marie. Her Marie. I picked up the phone and you were there. I want to start with the term responsibility. I would like to start with the theme of responsibility. Because this term always triggers to be overwhelmed for me. And that was particularly the case when I started working in my profession.

[16:38]

And now in the meantime this term doesn't really exist for me anymore. Although it does exist in the society. um... or my feeling somehow is that through practice the pace of expectations and of thoughts somehow interweaves with the slower pace of the body And through this process and also through this mutual process of speaking about these things and trying to find a language for these things, particularly also in the winter branches here,

[17:46]

such a feeling of trust and also of exchange, of being confirmed without the need for an identification with the word responsibility. A sense of trust grows and a feeling of exchange keeps happening without me needing a particular term responsibility for that. Oh, yes, that's right. Excuse me. I don't need to identify myself with responsibility and with the role and all these demands. And this process is quite a process of patience. and I can feel it through the breath. Observing the breath I feel, now I'm excited and I want this and I feel this is my... I feel this is speeding me up.

[19:08]

and with the breath I can watch it and come back to the body rhythm and so decisions are more within peace somehow Which language are you speaking? This process of not being able to identify with the responsibility takes time and is for me a process of patience. And I can observe it a little bit with my breath.

[20:18]

And when these thoughts of aspiration or pressure or yes, come back in this direction, they are quite fast, then I notice this irritation or acceleration in my breath or in the breathlessness and then I notice that this is such a red light and then you can come back into the body and then those are the decisions that then They come from, as I said before, from this connection to the inside. You have to translate that again. With the decisions. The decisions that arise from that state, that unity of breath and thinking and body, I called them before in the discussion, that is the connection to that space inside or outside, and then it is fluid, more fluid.

[21:50]

Now, do you feel you could come to this on your own or do you feel you've come to it primarily through practice, through Zen practice? I think maybe as a child there were situations where... I was happy. I hope. Yeah, I was happy in this kind of thing. There was no question to go to the river or to catch a frog or to climb a tree or to do things like that, also decisions. Oh, now I'm speaking English again. I have to stay German. So, as a child, I think, everything worked out quite well.

[22:53]

I felt good when I made decisions to catch a frog or climb a tree. And meanwhile, I think, I've been alienated from it and returned to it through practice. Yeah, but in the meantime now I feel that I alienated from that somehow. You became alienated. I became alienated from that and now through practice I found my way back. Okay. Yeah, I mean I think one thing I want to speak about, if we can in this seminar, It's practice as a process of education. We could even say there's Zazen 1 and Zazen 2. Or Zen 1 and Zen 2.

[23:56]

And Zen 2 is practice as an educational process. And that educational process is often confirmed as valid for us. When we feel, oh, I remember it was like this as a child or something like that. Or I've had tastes of this before. But we don't want to limit the the process of yogic education to what has happened before, neither conceptually nor factually.

[25:02]

Now, what I mean by that is neither conceptually nor factually. You don't want to get in a rut You don't want to get what? In a rut. Oh, yeah, in a track, right? Like in a... You don't want to get into such a track. What I noticed in the 60s and 70s, our David Chadwick would probably maybe have noticed it too, and Paul. What I noticed in the 60s and 70s, and maybe David Chadwick and Paul have noticed it too, In those days, as you may have heard, a lot of people in San Francisco and elsewhere took something called LSD. Lucy in the sky with diamonds. You don't have to translate that.

[26:02]

It speaks for itself. And what happened is many of those persons practiced Zen. And their Zen practice tended to extend into the kind of rooms and ruts that the psychedelic experience had made for them. And some of them, and many persons who'd had LSD experiences or other such experiences, and psilocybin, you know, psilocybin, was that they advanced, in a sense advanced, moved more quickly into practice,

[27:17]

but their practice also often at some point stopped and didn't advance beyond their psychedelic experiences. And it seems that psychedelic experience can be And it seems that such a psychedelic experience can be so definitive, you can't get outside the definitions. And I know, actually, personally, many of the most well known of the psychedelic pioneers.

[28:34]

And thirty years, is it thirty years later, forty years later, they're still giving the same lecture. Brilliant, but the same lecture. It was brilliant once. Okay, so that's what I mean by factually. And by conceptually, I mean if you think, if you have the idea that somehow Buddha nature is inherent in us, which is a common idea, a common when unexamined idea within Buddhism.

[29:38]

But when you think that What your experience is, is something that has to have been already there. This concept limits your experience. And limits your education, your yogic education. Dogen is very clear about this. Okay. There was somebody who had their hand up over here earlier. Yes. I didn't know if it was you or the pillar. You're both equally thin.

[30:41]

You can just hold up the ceiling. I found the discussion before very interesting. And she raised the question for me. There are people who always fascinate me. What fascinates me about them? And when I look more closely, I always notice that they have a vision. And if I look more closely, what I always find is that these are people who have a vision. And this vision, they live in intentions. And they may make mistakes within these intentions, but the basic direction doesn't let them do very fundamental mistakes.

[32:08]

And it was very early in my youth that people fascinated me so much. And this vision, this fascination, I had in Buddhism when I first came into contact with it, when I found Buddhism again, and in teachers who, so to speak, presented it. And this fascination, I already encountered that early on in my youth. And I found this vision and this fascination again in Buddhism, and I found it in teachers who presented this kind of vision and fascination. So to make this more personal, I have been asking myself for a while, what is my vision and what is my vision for our lives together? And when I made this decision and Bekaroshi then was a fascinating person to practice with, I can imagine that Sukhiroshi had a similar radiance.

[33:24]

Is the direction clear to me at least? And in that direction I certainly make a lot of mistakes, but they are not, I would say, really difficult mistakes. So mistakes that I could not forgive myself. And ever since then, at least the direction is really clear to me. I'm sure I still make a lot of mistakes within that direction, but I would say these mistakes are not really big mistakes or mistakes that I couldn't forgive myself. Yes, it is this direction for which I decided at some point. And in the end I decided in Japan, in the monastery there. It was a very difficult time, which brought me very close to my madness. And at the end of this period of practice there, it was clear to me that this is the direction I want to take and that I have been preparing for since then.

[34:53]

But what was important for me was to choose this direction that I was going to proceed on. And I did make this decision then in Japan when I was in this practice period and it was a really difficult time for me. But at the end of this practice period I felt that this is the direction that I want to proceed in. Thank you for proceeding in this direction. If you hadn't we wouldn't be here in this building. What are you doing over there? A wise man. The discussion this afternoon for all of us led into the direction of saying that decisions come from the body, from phenomena, and come from a space where in the end you don't actually know where they come from.

[36:13]

And I wonder if you add a portion of trust to that. then I wonder if the only thing that exists really are these constantly changing circumstances. or if one does not end up with something like a kind of unity, whether it is a living Buddha nature or, I have now read in the Tibetan, he wrote, a crown of being, that one is there, what is simply not there, what does not change, like a crown of being. Or whether in the end maybe you arrive at some kind of ground of being or some kind of unity and be it a kind of inherent unity.

[37:38]

Ground of being is a term that I read that some Tibetan teacher wrote. And I also have the feeling that this would make trust easier. And I have the feeling that if something like that existed, it would be much easier to trust. And it would also be a kind of arriving. Is this also a God idea? That's close. Well, an angel . Yeah. Angel forgot our water. I mean, . Thank you. I think these are the smaller things.

[38:52]

When I ask myself what moves me or what doesn't, when I sit down or do this or that, these are things that I already have in my mind. For example, how it feels to act this way or that way. These are two different things. It feels different to sit upright or not to sit upright. Or when I drive a car, it feels different when I say to the people in front of me, they take away my space and I can't drive fast enough. Or when I say, we all do the same thing here. That makes a difference. It's a decision. I can immediately overcome it by the feeling that I'm getting into it. I feel relief and well-being and humor and good things. I think these are much smaller things. We have feedback. This is the right way. This is what you want. This is simply because it feels right. My body is so built that it likes to change. When I sit like this, it's at least better than when I sit like this.

[40:00]

If I'm supposed to translate, then you have to pause now. Very good. I actually think that it's much smaller things that make a difference and give me feedback on how to make a decision. For example, when I sit down, I immediately get a feedback of whether I sit straight or whether I sit crooked. One thing just feels better than the other. And it's like that all the time. If I have to make a decision, I can do this or I can do this, one thing feels differently than the other does. Or for example, also in terms of attitudes, when I drive a car and I can choose whether I'm going to get angry at the person in front of me who cuts my way or whether I develop a kind of feeling of, oh, we're all doing the same thing. So that's a decision and my body immediately gives me a feedback on what feels better than the other.

[41:02]

And I very often work with a phrase that you, Roshi, gave us, which is that we have to decide what world to live in, and we can do that at each moment. I can immediately, as I perceive everything, it immediately changes when I assume, let's say, this is a world where I have to fight, where I have to survive, where there is a shortage, where there is a lack, etc. Or when I say, I don't know all that yet, and this is a world full of miracles and magic and... Things like that. That would change everything. I would change the world at that moment. the whole way I perceive the world immediately changes depending on whether I say, oh, this is a world in which I have to struggle and I have to survive and I have to fight and there's suspicion everywhere, or whether I say, oh, this is a world and I actually don't know what it is.

[42:16]

It's a world filled with magic. Then immediately my whole perception shifts. Yeah, good. Yes? I would like to come back to the point that Dogen made in connection with decision and time. That my time to mature is needed. Because that was what I wanted to say in the plenum for my experience when I decide. When I decide, There are two reasons, left and right, and the left one is that I am much too fast. I do that very often, because I am afraid of doing something wrong, and when I am afraid of doing something wrong, I am especially fast, with the will to hold on to it. And then it is quite wrong, because I moved way too early. So I would like to get back to this phrase that you spoke about by Dogen with ripening time.

[43:22]

And I already said that in the big group before, that when I have to make a decision, I feel like I'm moving along two abysses. Two cliffs. And the left abyss may be something like that I act too quickly, which I tend to do because I'm worried that I do something wrong. So in order to not do something wrong, I have a tendency to wanting to nail it down or to make it concrete so that I act very quickly. You want to be quickly wrong. And the right side of the cliff is that because I don't want to act too quickly, I actually go into some kind of hesitation.

[44:29]

So I don't want to act too quickly, but I also don't really think that I can actually be in the situation, so I start to hesitate. Was that okay? Good. And in between, for me, there is this path that, even if it doesn't work physically, doesn't lead to the physical. And that is because before I start to decide something in my head, I simply perceive how I feel in the environment. And secondly, then also that is the trust that Ottmar maybe meant with his reason, also trust in having that it can fit. And the way in between somehow, for me, it works through the body. And I don't try to think in my head what to do, but I try to sense into my body.

[45:48]

That's one aspect. And the other aspect is also this trust and maybe to trust. And maybe that's also what Ottmar meant by ground of being. But not some kind of abstract ground of being, but an actual ground on which to stand, a ground that's related to the situation. Okay, thanks. And Koko, you started to respond to Otmar, so Schweizerdeutsch, bitte. Koko, du hast ja angefangen, Otmar zu antworten. Ja, ich habe gefragt, ob das dann nicht eine göttliche, eine Gottesidee ist, die er dann mit dieser Form dann aufbaut. wondered if that is not an idea of God that is being established through introducing the idea of the ground of being.

[46:56]

Well, we have to be careful of ground of being, Buddha nature, oneness, etc. And strictly speaking within Buddhism, If there is such a thing, heretical positions. But we may come to a way of acting where it feels something like a grounded being. But it still is itself, whatever you call it, changing and unpredictable. So we want to be careful that we, and even perhaps discipline ourselves to notice that. So we don't use language which we know isn't quite right but then actually kind of deludes us.

[48:04]

Okay, yes. I find it particularly beautiful in such group conversations how I can participate on the one hand in what you all tell and at the same time remember memories or an investigation takes place. What I really enjoy about these group discussions is how on the one hand I can engage with all these different things that people say, but on the other hand how it also triggers memories within me and I can begin to explore what my own experiences are around, for example, the topic of decision-making.

[49:15]

And important topics to me seem to be intention and trust. And then there were really situations in my life where the hesitations, and she said three different words that Starball was said for hesitation. I can't do that, but... How that really... It sounded like poetry, so... Yeah, it was. It was beautiful. Reluctance can do its own work. Reluctance, yeah. Reluctance, too. I actually have forgotten. Yeah, and this hesitating and babbling and saying, that totally blocked me.

[50:19]

Oh, that completely inhibited or blocked me. And this blocking could feel very hard, or also in a way, like tormented. And in other phases of my life And in other phases of my life, everything felt as though it was completely in flux. And it's like that more and more. And the astonishing thing about this is that in the end I don't feel as though I decided anything. Surprising changes happen more and more and in the end I don't feel like there was anything that I decided.

[51:38]

So this must have to do something with this feeling of being in a stream or being in flux or something. I mean, Sunday a new kind of flux is going to come into your life, right? Because Peter and Evelyn are getting married on Sunday afternoon. And we'll pretend it's a decision. That you have to keep renewing, of course. Did you meet in the all-as-one group this time? That worked okay? Boom, boom. Boom, boom. Boom, boom. Okay.

[52:38]

Somebody else? Yes. I want to come back to trust. What I experience here again and again is I would like to come back to this topic of trust. And I'm oftentimes deeply moved by things that you, Roshi, or also Rosenblum, Roshi, say. Paul Roshi, I thought. Yeah. Yes. And this movement and also the excitement that I then feel, it is as if it were an answer to something that I always suspected in some way but never knew.

[53:45]

And this feeling of being moved and also excited in some sense, it's always a feeling of being reminded on something that I always in some sense intimated but never quite knew. to the Roshis who gave it to me, and on the other hand, that there was an answer in me, so this allowed me to trust on the one hand into these roshis who gave me these impulses but on the other hand also to knowing that within me there is a kind of response that somehow feels in resonant with that

[54:57]

And that also allowed me to make the decision that I'm here, that here I am on the right way, and I actually don't know if This is the right way, but I decided that it is. Good. Yeah, you have to kind of both feel it's the right way and also make a leap. And of course I'm always speaking. I've tried to speak to what you already know. Yeah, because if I speak to what you already know, you tend to believe me.

[56:01]

And then I try to sneak in something new. Because when I talk about what you already know, you tend to believe me. Then I try to put something new into it. Okay, yes. Yes. So also in relation to what Susanna just said, to being always touched by what you say and then also to make a decision. I just remembered that one very important decision that I made and actually it was a decision that I didn't really consciously register as a decision in relationship to what you're saying

[57:17]

And now this was even before I began to practice. And looking back, I have to say that I was equipped with very little self-confidence. And I also didn't have very much confidence in the world. and it was a practical instruction from you that I And there was a practice instruction that you gave us that... Oh, no, we can't talk about that.

[58:40]

Go ahead. That I was very disappointed with. Something I said that you were disappointed with? Now you tell me. I had no idea what this was meant to be. It was very simple and I immediately began to enact it. So that was a decision that in some sense wasn't a decision. But I know exactly that, I know very well that this was what in some sense initiated the most basic turning point for me.

[59:57]

Yeah. You know the word trivial, what it means, I've mentioned it before. She actually used the word banal. You used the word trivial, yeah. But trivial means three roads. So even in small things, there's the road you're on and there's a choice. Yes, okay. Someone else? Yes, Simon. Yes. Although I'm not completely sure that this has any connection with the beginning of this discussion.

[61:13]

Because I completely lost myself within all these different facets and rooms that opened up here. And I have no idea whatsoever what to think about this. But there is one very important aspect within all this that again has to do with trust. Although maybe not with a ground of being. although this may not be connected to a ground of being. But if something began to dissolve until there's nothing left that could be dissolved,

[62:14]

When this room becomes sensible through taste in some inexplicable way, and then a kind of return emerges or return begins to happen, in which things may appear, maybe even a ground of being, I don't know. There can't be... There can't be... There can't be anything that could hurt anyone. But at least something like there's nothing that can be done that might hurt another person or another being or something.

[63:47]

Because this is where it's born from. This is where also I come from. Also, I'm very confused. How come that still there are so many pains and damages done in the world? Well, my opinion is that it's not human nature. But uneducated human nature. And we're very young, young and new at learning to live together. It's been two or three hundred million years of us more or less as we are with the same cranial capacity.

[65:15]

And most of that time we lived in groups of 15 to 30, 35 or something. It's only been a tiny little couple thousand years or three or four that we've started to live in large groups. And we just don't know how to do it very well yet. That's my optimistic opinion. We may be destroying the planet faster than we're learning. But it's hard for even families to learn to live together.

[66:32]

And what we're doing here, we're engaged in an experiment of the Sangha, which is an experiment of mutually coming to a common vision. And all this stuff in the koans as I mentioned this morning, Emperors and Rajas and so forth. It's really about can we even with, you know, can we come to a common vision? And a while ago I said, I don't know, a few seminars ago, I said the most basic attitude of a Buddhist at that moment of appearance of each of the world

[67:47]

is acceptance. What is it? And no harm. So part of the discipline of practice Is really to recognize that that makes sense. And apply it. Apply it. Train yourself to apply it to each initial moment. The first is acceptance. Whatever it is, you have no choice. You better accept it. You can't get rid of it. And you're simultaneous or perhaps next attitude is, what is it? What is it? Not in the immediate categories of concepts and things.

[69:02]

And the third is to do no harm. And however you accept and question, your simultaneous attitude is not to harm. Wie auch immer du akzeptierst und dir diese Frage stellst, gleichzeitig ist deine Haltung dazu keinen Schaden zuzufügen. Die fortgeschrittene Praxis besteht darin, eine ununterbrochene, And I said, I didn't say mindfulness, I said mindful attention. And then you can sort of plug into that uninterrupted mindful attention.

[70:20]

You can plug into that mindful attention, acceptance, what is it? No harm. Or by recognizing how basic this is in facing and meeting the world. your intention to make that your initial response, that intention to make this your initial response, It itself generates uninterrupted mindful attention.

[72:02]

But to do that, you have to have a feeling of the world around you. in its momentary appearance. So part of the education of Zen number two is Locating yourself in appearance. Now, if I start describing the educational process, which is assumed in this koan,

[73:08]

and these are things I've gone over over and over again over the years in various ways and most of what I might say you're familiar with but now I would like to speak about it again In a way in which you see it as that you're educating yourself. So I feel okay to repeat myself. Because this education takes time. It takes intention and repetition. And repetition which is not repetition because there's no repetition because nothing repeats.

[74:35]

It's repetition knowing that each moment is unique. Okay. And the educational process is difficult, because consciousness itself defeats the educational process, because the job of consciousness is to make the world predictable. No matter what your... no matter what your wisely arrived at world view is You live most of your life and validate your life through consciousness.

[75:59]

And a worldview rooted in consciousness Excuse me. A worldview rooted in impermanence is laughed at by consciousness. You're smarty. Scheiße. I was hoping you would notice. My translator said that. Okay. So you have to find really a sort of other mind or other medium of knowing than consciousness.

[77:07]

So if I just start now this educational process implied in this koan, We can go to one of my favorite phrases. To pause for the particular. and to make that pause the door of every moment, or the window of every moment. And if you can, again, bring uninterruptedly this sense of pausing for the moment, Into mindful attention.

[78:18]

And of course, our habits of anxiety and distraction and so forth. Keep going in all directions. But if they keep coming back through your deep intention to this mindful attention, as the waves of the ocean keep coming back to the stillness of the water, as I say, the very shape of the waves is determined by the stillness of the ocean. the wanting to return to stillness.

[79:31]

So if you can create a kind of intentional base in your life, it might be something like something like a grounded being then your distractions and anxieties tend to be um um partly constituted through this mindful attention mindful attention to the particular. which turns into something we could call perceptual immediacy, which turns into something we could call perceptual immediacy, you find yourself located in a perceptual immediacy, you find yourself located in a perceptual immediacy,

[80:59]

and this condition of perceptual immediacy is considered the basis in Buddhist philosophy of all valid knowledge. So Buddhist philosophy isn't about all the complexities of thinking and the questions you can ask and the permutations of the questions. Sorry again. So Buddhist philosophy is not about all the questions you can ask and the permutations of those questions. But Buddhist philosophy is all about the questions you can ask within and through and perceptual immediacy.

[82:18]

Because when these questions aren't asked when these questions are asked unrelated to perceptual immediacy, they're going to be like puffs in the air. I like the way you take something out of your, at least in Macintoshes, you take it out of the dock and it goes... Where the hell does it go? Yeah, and as David put in one of his books about Sukhiroshi, somebody asked Sukhiroshi, when a tree falls in the forest and no one's there, Is there a sound or not?

[83:25]

And Sukhirashi said, it doesn't matter. Okay. Now, what I would like to see us do What I would like to see that we do is that during these days we have together see if we can as much as possible come into an individual and shared perceptual immediacy. Adept practice assumes an uninterrupted perceptual immediacy.

[84:29]

And distractions and so forth keep returning to this perceptual immediacy. And in this flow, the insentient world teaches us. And in this flow, the practice of an adept begins. Okay. I think that's enough for this afternoon. Thank you very much for your discussion.

[85:21]

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