First, if somebody teaches me some German words, at first it's just a list. It's not a vocabulary until I see how it works in a sentence to produce some kind of meaning. So I think when we're starting out here, although you all know most of this stuff, We have to shift into this way of thinking, which we don't do most of the time probably. Just talk about a number of things to create an inventory of items. And in the process, the next few days, maybe it turns into a vocabulary and we can see how it works together. So in turning this inventory into a vocabulary, it helps me if you have some comments or anything you want to say so I can see, because what's important is how it works together, not just the items.

[01:23]

Yeah. In the sense that the perception should be free of conceptualization. Is it doctor woman? Is it crazy? These villagers, they created a concept by either saying this is a cult or somebody's going crazy here. And already this creates fear. a degree that grants fear.

[02:28]

what about just noticing the movements and the power and maybe the form it takes of a kidney and naming it isn't that already also a conceptualization of some sort what do you think about it or maybe the author or the person who said this Well, I would say that what Dignaga wanted us to do is to notice without naming. Now we have to look at what do we mean by conceptualization. Of course, if you think and notice, it's a kind of concept. But he means, he doesn't mean don't think.

[04:00]

He means don't think in a way that we're calling conceptualization. Does that make sense? Yeah. Partly you have a gradient here or a range. There's more naming and less naming. And you're trying to move toward less naming. Yes. Yeah. Concepts and meanings are also a way of how we mean, how our society sticks together and if you try to loosen yourself from this concept

[05:19]

society will try to keep you. There are different ways how society can stick together than concepts and name. Because if you're leaving this space, somehow leaving society, you would be punished for that. If you let them know. They stand up. In German. OK.

[06:21]

Yeah. But we're not talking about not ever naming or conceptualizing. We're talking about a process of knowing. Where knowing without conceptualizing is a way of knowing that you develop. Conceptualizing is also a way of knowing. Yeah, I mean, if there's a fire here, I don't say, let's stand here and appreciate this red object.

[07:26]

I say, that's a fire extinguisher. Grab it and do such and such. Somebody was just at Johanneshof and said, criticized our fire extinguisher placement. They said, for example, they should be low down because somebody will grab it and it's heavy and they drop it on their foot. And there should be two. Because the first one you do wrong and it squirts all over the place and you need a second one. So this is useful conceptualization. But if I'm looking at you for example and I notice that whenever I'm with a person, any person I have an experience of self and other.

[08:55]

And I tend to abide, stay, in the distinction between self and other. That would be a form of perceiving through conceptualization. Okay, so if I, when I'm talking to somebody, If I can begin to notice that I constantly have a habit of creating a distinction of self and other, perhaps I can pull my energy out of that distinction of self and other at least a little bit. And if I do that, I think you may experience, if you try this, That the simple fact of sentience lights up.

[10:13]

I think that's one of the aspects of being in love is the distinction of self and other is lessened and you find yourself in a somewhat different world. And maybe Buddhism is a voluntary decision to fall in love continuously. A voluntary decision to fall in love continuously. By constantly not, by removing the self-other distinction as part of knowing. And letting the self-other distinction come back as well. So that would be part of what Dinaga means by perception without conceptualization.

[11:23]

So I think our society and culture function better if people had that kind of knowing as well. But this by no means means that you walk around spaced out in non-dualism. But I don't think... Yeah, go ahead. That was not what I meant. What I mean is that if you have certain concepts or certain conceptualizations, you participate in a certain discourse with the right, and you... and you have to participate in this discourse. For instance, we are living in a world where we are developing this and these directions and therefore we have to do this and that in order to participate in this world, we have to develop these and these skills and not these skills.

[12:36]

And if you stop to participate in this discourse, you will become an outsider somehow, or somehow you will become an outsider. Well, that was not what we meant, but we meant that certain discourses arise from certain conceptualizations, and discourses can be, for example, the world is so and so, and you have to develop the direction, and therefore it is necessary to develop the abilities, and if you do not participate in the discourse, then you become an outsider. Yes, that's what I meant. I understand your concern. I think I understand your concern. But I think you can do both at once. I mean, I can listen to you conceptually and make sense of what you're saying, but I can also refrain from that being the primary way I listen to you. And I think the more I do that, the more I'll hear you fully.

[13:39]

And in a way this has something to do with living in physical space rather than mental space. I think it has something to do with living in a kind of physical space and not in a mental one. My practice was the difference between the breath count and the breath follow. With the breath count you have a concept, you say one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten. Then you say you know it. In the moment when you stop counting and breath follow, then you notice that every breath move is practically a completely unknown area. And the more you succeed in that, that's exactly the difference between conceptual perception and more physical central perception.

[14:45]

And you have to train that, you have to stabilize that, you have to realize that the habit of energy is that you are conceptualized. First of all, it is not possible to be the way you are, just as such, longer than without a verbal function. But if you stabilize that, then you see the training field so much easier. in this shift, not just without naming. Gerd talked about what an important step it was in his practice relating to what Eric said between naming and concepts and naming on a lesser degree of concepts, the shift between naming, counting your breath and following your breath. What an important shift it was in practice. Yes, I understand. It's quite difficult. Naming can also be a freeing. Yeah, you just named something. Oh, that's anger.

[15:45]

So naming can function to free you from. This is a long breath. This is a short breath. That's also part of it. This is exactly what I wanted to address, that I sometimes find it very difficult to find out for myself, but also of course for the clients, what the concepts really are, because they are usually not aware of it, and that it is about stuttering the words first, and I also wanted to ask again, whether to be identified with a concept or not to be identified, or rather not to know that one is identified. Yes, exactly. So whether this terminology fits, that one is also identified or practically identified, but without really knowing it consciously. And what I find there, it's really exciting to find out. Yeah, that's often a question I have for myself, but also in the work with my clients, like what is the concept and actually what is the concept somebody's identified with, to like a detective to work with the people to help them to identify with their concept.

[17:21]

And it's not easy to distinguish between somebody who doesn't even know what kind of concept he or she is identified with, or sort of being free of a concept. And in this kind of muddy area, I try to work and find a way in myself and in the work with clients. Because concepts that somebody is not identified with are very tricky. And I think it's not possible to get loose of something that I don't know. Yeah, yeah. It's very difficult to be free of something that you don't know that you are identified with. There are concepts which are like closed rooms. And there are concepts which are like a lot of open doors. And how I would understand what you said is that first you need to discover in yourself, or if you're working with someone else, how they identify themselves, or how they have hidden concepts of themselves.

[18:43]

And then you try to make the hidden concepts more conscious, And then you try to change those concepts from closed ones to open ones. And then you can start thinking about being free of concepts or practicing. But some concepts you can't put down. They're like suitcases that are glued to your hands. And you keep putting the bags down, but you can't let go of them. Supposedly those monkeys who you can catch by opening a small hole in the coconut. You know that story, right? The monkeys will put their hands in it to get some food.

[19:45]

And they can let go of it and take their hand out but they won't let go of it so you can come and catch them because they simply won't let go of the food that's inside the clothes container. So you have to get people to have suitcases which at least they can put down, you know. And so we have to make sure that people just get suitcases that they can at least put away. That was something that was helpful to me, simply changing concepts, and this change of concepts, that is, putting away the suitcase and then taking it back in another one, this space in between is then such a moment when conceptlessness occurs, and that is then such an aha experience. But I have the feeling that it is necessary to be in motion and these are short moments. Yeah, that has helped me a lot, you know, to just put one suitcase down and then maybe pick up another one.

[20:59]

And these moments in between the suitcases, that I think in my experience is some kind of area without concepts. And it's brief moments, it's intense moments, and it helps me to really be in movement to experience those moments. Yeah, a brief moment or a taste is all you need. Because it becomes knowledge. And then it can really change how you function. So ideally you want to create situations which give people brief moments of knowledge. If I think again, I'm trying to imagine with you a psychology which can use the practices and wisdom of Buddhism. And Buddhism not as a religion but as an inner science.

[22:08]

So I think one level is just to see the practices and to see what practices you can give people that they can imagine doing. Now, I think if you take, I don't know, Eric knows Michael's, Michael's parents. But I think they had no interest in Qigong and karate and judo and all that stuff. They did? I got the impression that they got the feeling of it from Eric, from Mikael. I don't know. Oh, really? Okay. And they are interested in a lot of, since a long time, in a lot of new things.

[23:12]

Weird things. I mean, from the point of view of the witcher. Okay, so let's talk about something else. It's another example. Sometimes I've seen a person who, because their son practices, at some point in life they start to practice, and it's the son practicing that would make it possible. So I'm just saying that we have to find some sort of territory that gives a person permission to try a practice. But there may be some practices as it's easier and easier to introduce meditative practices to people these days. So it seems to me the first step is what meditative practices can you introduce to people that don't seem too weird?

[24:18]

And then you as psychotherapists, those of you who are, it's I think necessary for you to understand those practices much more thoroughly than they do. Because how you apply a practice, like the distinction between conceptualization, naming, and thinking, if you don't have a real sense of that, then if the person gets stuck in the practice, you have no way to help them. So what I'm trying to talk about is how these practices, the topography of these practices, should we say. Eureka, you started to say something before?

[25:45]

Yes. I want to say that the lesser naming is a very good part, I guess so, in this noticing that in the distinction of self and other. So if I'm naming it exactly, then I just identify myself and reach to another, shift something. So I think naming is an important part. I think at this point, because we have talked so much about naming, I think that naming at the point where I notice something is somehow a very important and important point, because this distinction of I am myself and someone else has to be met and taken from somewhere else, that this shift happens here.

[26:58]

Can you also translate what she said so I can... Yes, she said it in English. I know, but I'd like you to translate so I understand it. I'm sorry, I spaced out. Okay, because I didn't quite understand what you meant. Benennen ist ja auch eine buddhistische Übung. Benenning is a Buddhist practice. Wo ist das weniger Benennen? Wo ist das Benennen, dass es eine Praxis ist? Yeah, if we look at the gradient, the range, I think Ulrike's question is where does the practice of naming really is located in this range, or where is it more like a concept? And I remember, I think, wasn't it with you guys that Roshi once explained about naming the permanent and naming more the impermanent? Wasn't that here? Roshi once talked a lot about how to name the seemingly impermanent and how the practice then always develops towards the impermanent.

[28:13]

Okay. It's 6.30, so we should stop in a moment. But this is a good example of looking at something carefully. There's a difference between naming a tree and naming a breath. If you name a breath, you're clearly naming something that's disappearing. So if you practice in Zen and mindfulness naming activities, Mindfulness practice is primarily to notice and name activities, not objects. That's a big change. And also, the naming is taken out of syntax. So you're not naming as part of language where the word gets swept up into a sentence which goes off in some direction.

[29:34]

Yeah, you're pulling the name out of syntax. You're pulling the word and just changing it into a name. And you're also embodying the word. You're naming an activity which you are engaged in. Which is a process of embodiment. So that say that a person, a particular person, has a selfish idea of themselves. And it would be better for them to have an unselfish idea of themselves. But there's no basis for the unselfish idea themselves in their personal history.

[30:43]

We could substitute anything here. I'm just using this as an example, a selfish idea versus an unselfish idea. Okay, so there's no basis. You can't get them to accept this unselfish idea. Because it doesn't make any sense in their history, in their anxiety. So then you give them a practice of embodying the unselfish idea. And that's basically a mantric-like practice. You get them to tie it to, say, the 100,000 bows in Tibetan Buddhism. So with each bow, you repeat this unselfish idea. And what's discovered in Buddhism is that even if it has no relevance to you, you're embodying it and it'll come up when you need it.

[32:09]

So these kind of preparatory practices in Zen are Sashin-type practices. And attempting to get the person to be in physical space rather than mental space. So then the naming is not only a naming of activity, but it's a naming which embodies you, connects you physically with the phrase. On a bodily way, then often it will have more power in the way you function than unembodied phrases or ideas that only have a mental base in your history. So I think again this is a good example of looking more carefully at concepts, naming, what you're naming, and so forth.

[33:20]

Okay, well, we seem to be mixed up in all this. So let's sit for a minute or two. Thank you for the discussion.

[36:12]

And I guess those who want to sit, we will sit at 7.15. Anything you'd like to bring up this morning to start out with? Yes. I would really like to know a few words about what Suzuki Roshi meant with perfecting the personality, if you could tie that up a little bit for us. I want to untie it, not tie it up. I think that I'll talk about that the last day or two. I was afraid you would.

[37:26]

But, you know, that keeps you all here. Well, those of you with imperfect personalities may want to leave. I'm sorry, but you walked into that. I'm sorry, but you walked into that. and where it came out that there are simply opportunities that are very important to name.

[38:33]

And that's where the keyword conflict came to me. And I think, if you want to overcome the personality, then there is a lot to deal with conflicts. And how I escalate, deescalate. And that also has a lot to do with naming. That I show myself and that the other shows himself. And that is something that occupies me very much. Well, I'm still in the middle of dealing with what we talked about yesterday, naming and not naming. What I'm particularly referring to is when conflicts emerge and in the middle of a conflict I think it's very important to name things in order to either escalate or de-escalate the situation and I feel that's a very important strategy.

[40:03]

And I'm interested how Buddhism deals with conflict management, also in relationship to naming and not naming. I probably can't answer that. But I'm answering that way in order to create a conflict. Just because Buddhism doesn't go about it the way you're speaking about it. These are practice techniques in Buddhism. While they have a philosophical dimension and cast or look,

[41:04]

They're not meant to spread over everything. So we're talking about naming as a practice in a particular way. It doesn't affect all ways names are used. I think sometimes, and I'm not saying you're doing this, but we philosophize it too much that if I say to be free from thinking, we think we should be free from thinking always. That's not the point. You added something. Did I? Well, I didn't make anybody laugh. You did. It was a good translation.

[42:43]

Now I feel helpless. I'm outnumbered. Yes? A congenial translation. So my sense is to speak to you as prose. And I'm not trying to speak, to relate to you individually or together as so much in terms of your practice. So I'm not taking responsibility for your practice. I mean, for example, in the Sashin I'm taking responsibility for people's, individual's practice.

[43:46]

Because we create, we try to create in Sashin a sufficient experiential base so the teachings can be heard as practice. And here we're not saying that much, and also I'm not trying to create an experiential basis. I'm just putting some teachings out there, presenting it as much as, more than showing it. And I suppose at this meeting this year, I'm thinking of you as not psychotherapists, but dharma therapists.

[44:48]

And I'm imagining there's something that we could create or we could do called dharma therapy. So from that point of view, I would speak perhaps this time especially on the craft of practice. The craft or details of this wisdom teaching. And since you're pros, I would leave it to you to put it together. So, something else? Yes. from yesterday, what you said about this swing of being in a mental existence, more of the physical, so physical existence, and I experience this in my work and also in my everyday life, and as helpful or as a saviour, yes, that it is possible.

[46:25]

I'm still dealing with the shift you talked about yesterday from the mental base to a more physical base. And that's what I'm dealing with in my work. And I often experience that this is actually what is redeeming or saving something. Yes. My thinking has to do with the forming of concepts, of the continuity which is based on thinking, and on groups and on societies which are referring on the concepts and on thinking to include a member. And on the other hand, continuity on the body, or the breath, and so on.

[47:30]

And groups which are referring on body to make a member, to make a person to the member of the group. And just that shift in some way going from thinking to body makes some fear because I'm losing the membership of the group, or at least I feel And it's just thinking there, and it knows there are societies which are referring on thinking, and there are societies which are referring on body, and sometimes there's those which are referring on body. They are more simple, more natural, and so on. But it has got to be like that. Just . OK. . and that on the other hand there are societies and groups of forms that the continuity on the body, breathing and so on is based on the fact that they are simply two different forms of society and that this transition from thinking to the body, that it was also in this way that I was afraid, because I was also running the risk of being too attached to the specific type.

[49:11]

Okay, I heard you. So let me write something up here, because I think if we take certain phrases, or whatever, and can hold them in place, mind, during our days, it will be helpful. Yes, I would like to write something down here, because I think if we simply carry certain sentences or statements during these days in us, that this can then be helpful. It's okay. Thomas, that's it. This is the first, as I said, is the first statement or beginning of the Pali Abhidharma.

[51:54]

Now, Dharma we've spoken about. Maybe I should translate this? Yes, translate it, please. When a healthy, conscious attitude, which belongs to a world of sensual connection, is accompanied and overwhelmed by joy and connected with a knowledge that has emerged, dot dot dot. Okay. So it becomes interesting. What is a healthy, conscious attitude? And what is when? And what is arisen? Now, I think that anybody who's a psychotherapist or interested in healing, this is, you know, right up your alley. This is the center of what therapy is about.

[53:04]

But then we have, of course, here, now we're talking about Buddhism here, so we're talking about belonging to a world of sensuous relatedness. And accompanied by, permeated by serenity. And linked to knowledge. Now I'll be done. Abhi is taken to mean something like special teaching or to face ultimate reality or something like that.

[54:21]

And abhidharma is the teaching of facing momentariness. Okay. Now, the Abhidharma was developed between three centuries before Christ and three centuries after Christ. And it was formulated pretty much finally in the fourth century as the basis of all of Buddhism. And in the Heart Sutra where they say no No eyes, no ears, no nose, etc.

[55:44]

That's all Abhidharma teaching. Okay. Now, why is momentariness emphasized? Because it's emphasized because of philosophical reasons, Reality. It's emphasized for therapeutic reasons. Healing. And it's emphasized for sociological. Soteriological or enlightenment.

[56:47]

Soteriological. Soteriological. Soteriology is usually teaching of Jesus or Christian teaching of salvation. But it literally means to save or to make safe, etc. So every teaching in Buddhism has these three elements. It's presented, it's... It's necessary that it's philosophical because it has to be coincident with reality. But we don't talk about all aspects of reality.

[57:47]

We talk about those aspects of reality in a way that's therapeutic. And in addition, we talk about those aspects of reality which also lead to enlightenment. Okay. Now today, since I know you're beyond concern with enlightenment, Oh, you're already enlightened. Yeah. In any case, I'm really speaking about it in terms of its philosophical and therapeutic aspects. Why are you laughing so much this morning? And then there's the humorological aspects. Okay. Permeated.

[59:05]

Permeated, permeated. I think if we speak about these teachings in terms of how they reflect reality and how they can be therapeutic,

[60:08]

it makes it easier to think of these things and talk about them in ways that can be used in psychotherapy. If we speak about them more in a sociological sense, then we have to talk more, then we should really only talk about these in the context of a lot of sitting and so forth. And in fact we should withhold perhaps this aspect until it's revealed through this aspect. Does that make sense? So I'm not speaking to you as practicing Zen Buddhists, but as Dharma therapists.

[61:15]

If you want to sprinkle in the possibility of enlightenment, that's up to you. Okay. Okay, now, Dogen's most famous fascicle of his teaching or section of his teaching is called the Genjo koan. And genjo means to complete arising. Or to complete what appears.

[62:16]

And koan means universal, particular. Okay. Now in the Chinese tradition, way of entitling things, usually the title is meant to be the complete teaching of what follows the title. So this extraordinary fascicle is summed up in this kenjo koan.

[63:42]

So here what I'm concentrating on is this first phrase of our theme, transforming the present. So kenjo koan means to transform the present. present by completing what arises. And to complete and to see what arises as simultaneously universal and particular. And here you have the idea of everything is interdependent, and also that everything is interpenetrating. So if I pick up this, I pick up everything. If you went to Mars, And you found a blade of grass or something.

[65:11]

You'd have to know that everything that is the earth was somehow happening there. Because a single blade of grass is not possible without everything that is our earth. So that everything that is our earth permeates this blade of grass. Now, maybe this is, you know, the kind of schmalzy way of looking at things. But maybe Buddhism is a return to schmaltz. In other words, these more poetic or romantic or whatever ideas about how we exist, we get cut off from usually.

[66:15]

I think it's partly because we also actually don't, they're ideas, but we don't experience them. So this is also to bring this back into our experience. And it's just about taking it back into our experience. Dogen also says stone maiden gives birth to a child.

[67:33]

In the middle of the night. He also said, the blue mountains are walking. And he also says, the blue mountains are moving. I'm thinking of how to say it without doubt.

[68:54]

Walking out of the blue mountains is the same as our walking. I'm trying to think of a way to give you a sense of the difference between mental space and embodied space. All right. In mental space, a stone maiden gives birth to a child in the middle of the night just doesn't make any sense. But in physical space, it's automatically two-thirds true.

[70:01]

Because there is such a thing as giving birth to a child. And there is such a thing as in the middle of the night. So when you practice with a phrase, when you take it out of here, we're back to naming. When we take a phrase, a word, let's say a word is a part of speech. It's an adjective, an adverb, or whatever. But a name isn't necessarily a part of grammar. For instance, I could have a nickname, Rich. But Rich as a word isn't what I am. Unfortunately. So Rich as a name isn't really necessarily part of the ordinary way of looking at words. So when you are in a physical space, you're in a sense pulling words, perhaps into names.

[71:23]

Or you're pulling words out of syntactical space into semantic space. It becomes a... What does this mean? Okay, I'm using syntax as the grammar of a sentence. I'm using semantic to mean a sign. Okay. Or in the metaphorical space. For instance, I might say the bathroom lamp. Yeah, that's okay. There's the bathroom lamp. It needs a bulb. I know Americans who travel in Europe, particularly Germany, I guess, and they carry bulbs with them because in the pension bathrooms the bulbs are so dim they can't see to shave.

[72:41]

We're used to bright light and the pensions are always saving electricity. Particularly as our eyes grow dimmer. Because you get up so early. That's probably the problem. Bleary. Okay. But if you just have the word lamp, this is something that has some power. It's not bathroom lamp. Or desk lamp. Be a lamp unto thyself. So that's the kind of difference I'm pointing out when it's in physical space where you embody it.

[74:07]

Lamp, lamp, lamp. And you say it like a mantra. So you don't understand koans as a practice unless you understand that you have to take these phrases out of syntactical space into mantric space or bodily space. So if you think about a stone maiden gives birth at night, you think, oh, this is some kind of riddle, I don't know what it means, etc., But if you just stay with the phrase, a stone maiden gives birth to a child at night, you begin to feel night. You begin to feel what happens in darkness. As the Sandokai says, myriad streams flow in darkness.

[75:31]

Which means right now, there's a great deal that's happening in this room outside of our sense perceptions. There's a great deal of connectedness happening which isn't, you can't say it's sound, it's sight or something. And in that flowing in the darkness, there's a kind of birth. And it's amazing that anything is born, anything appears. I mean, as is said, it's a miracle that anything exists at all. But it's hard for us when our sense of continuity is always in the channel of thought.

[76:42]

To experience this is only an idea. It's a miracle. Anything that exists, well, that's, you know, who cares? But in physical space it is a miracle that anything exists. I like the word miracle because the root of it means the same as smile. It's kind of like the basic reaction to something, to smile. So perhaps even stone or a maiden.

[77:44]

A maiden is not usually connected with birth. A stone maiden gives birth to a child in the middle of the night. And the blue mountains walking. If I'm standing here, I'm not walking. But in fact, I'm not standing. I'm coming to stand. I'm always coming in to stand it. And if you have to stand a long time in a queue, you know that you have to keep coming in to stand it. So standing is an activity. Even if I step forward, There's a kind of standing as an activity that's even in the middle of the step.

[78:46]

So that activity of walking and standing is really the same activity. And likewise, a mountain, it looks like it's just always mountaining, like we're always standing. The mountain is always coming into the activity of being a mountain. So this kind of phrase you don't get if you just think about it. You have to feel your way into it. And you know, it's funny, like in... In Asia, in Japanese thinking about, Dharmic thinking about these things, a square is made from five points.

[79:53]

If I draw a square, Certainly it's four points. But what's been forgotten there? I made the five four points. There's no such space without a fifth spot that makes it or that observes it. So in mental space, It's four points, but in physical space it's at least five points. And the fifth point is usually indicated as something that goes up and down, but also goes sideways. If you're a farmer in kind of an undeveloped area, the size of your field is determined by your sheep or your cattle.

[81:20]

The field moves this way. So the field always has a center from which the cows are going to walk or something. So the... So the sense of the five points is that there's always in anything, there's an upward connection and there's a sideways connection, this fifth point, the center, which makes it happen. So, dear Sheila, when you think of things physically, you think of them rather differently. That's why in Buddhism, or in this way of thinking, we say there's ten directions, not four directions.

[82:30]

Because, again, the ten directions are, of course, north, south, east, west, and also the southwest, etc., but also up. and down but it goes both directions and a big in the sense of the ten directions is not that it's over there in the north but the north is coming to you And the heaven is coming to you. So that's quite a different feeling when you feel north and south as a kind of something that you're moving within. So one of the reasons we do zazen is to interrupt

[83:31]

our usual channels of continuity. And Nestle again, the way all human beings are, we go along in our thinking like a kind of channel. And sometimes we stop and take a breather or something, but we have a tendency to have this channel. And now zazen is to stop and open the sluice gate. And zazen is to stop and open the sluice gate. you know, that translates, loose gate is translatable, okay, and then let the, from out of this sort of concrete channel, let the liquid of mind come down into the sand of the body, And permeate the body with serenity.

[84:44]

Now I'm using images here because images cut across mental boundaries. And images are more able to catch us, to stay in our mind. And as you know, and as I've said many times, that when we think of mind as a liquid, which again is an image, a metaphor, We can think of mind as different kinds of soup stock. So the mind, when you use images, you generate a different kind of liquid than when you use conceptual thought. So as soon as I use an image, it punctures a little hole in the channel of thought and the water comes out a little bit.

[86:00]

And dream mind is of course a mind in which images float and not conceptual. Maybe it's a good time to take a break. I'm mostly just throwing things out here.

[87:15]

We'll see if we can, not that I don't want them, but I'm, in English, throwing things out is like throwing them in the garbage or something. Ja, und nicht, dass ich sie jetzt nicht wollte, aber auf Englisch heißt es, die verschiedenen Sachen um sich zu werfen, also sie vielleicht auch auf den Müll werfen. Nicht, dass ich sie nicht will. Ja, vielleicht können wir alle gemeinsam sie zusammensetzen. On the physical. In embodied space. Or bodily space. I don't know what word to use. Physical space doesn't... Embodied space? We choose our misunderstandings. Pessimism is not necessarily a healthy conscious attitude.

[88:25]

I enjoy my misunderstandings for a while, actually. Well, that's good. That's a healthy conscious attitude. Thank you. So when we come back at 11.30 and we're going to eat, we decide at 1 and stop before 1.

[92:47]

When do we eat tonight? Did you decide on anything? We decided to come back at three, is that, or three-thirty? Three-thirty. Three-thirty, okay. Four-thirty, five-thirty, well, we need it six or six-thirty, maybe six-thirty. Six-thirty. Okay. Okay.

[93:17]

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