What I'd really like is to continue the discussion, but maybe I can tell you an anecdote first. Yesterday I enjoyed the discussion so much and learned a lot when we talked about how Meditation and Zen practice, aspects of Zen practice, meditation, work well in the client-therapist relationship. But I wonder if we can talk about now, does practice, even some ideas from practice, Or some experience of meditation affect you yourself as a development, as a therapist?

[01:24]

Or just your own development? Oder einfach nur eure eigene Entwicklung. But my anecdote is, last night I decided, I've never been to a Japanese restaurant in Frankfurt. Maybe I should see if there's any, if there is one. You mean just Frankfurt? Frankfurt, I mean, no, there is one in Frankfurt, there used to be, in Kassel, that's where I am. I knew I was so close. Okay, also, ich habe noch gar nicht gewusst, ob es hier in Kassel ein japanisches Restaurant gibt. So I looked up on the Internet Japanese restaurants in Kassel.

[02:29]

And there were three or four. Only one of them sounded like it might be good. So I called up, I think it's called Shinyu... A sushi palace or something like that. I would now call it the frozen sushi factory. And it says it needs a reservation, so I... It said, reservations required, so I called them up. And I spoke to them in Japanese. No reaction. No, no, no. I switched to English.

[03:42]

Does anybody there speak English? And then suddenly went, ha, ha, ha, and they hung up. So I thought, I'm not going to give up. And then I thought, happy night. probably get a taxi. I figured out on the map how to walk, but it's a fairly long walk. I'm down here overlooking the train station. So I was wondering how to get a taxi and I looked out and there were 50 waiting. There must have been an ECA on the way or something. So I went down and took one of the taxis. And then I went to Monza and took one of the taxis.

[04:51]

And then I got there and it was fairly full. I don't exactly know why I'm telling you this, but I'm going to continue. Oh, anyway, I went in and I think when I spoke English, they realized, this is the guy we are talking about. So there were no tables available and reserve signs on the couple who were open, but they put me down on a table for six. And no one came for a while. When they did come, I squeezed over and let them sit. So they had pictures of everything. Yeah. Now, Japanese food is, I don't know any other cuisine that's quite like it.

[06:07]

And because the conception of the meal is you mix, primarily you mix the ingredients yourself. They're not cooked like French cooking and Chinese cooking. And then it's brought out all cooked together. So a regular meal usually consists of four or five separate dishes. And a kaiseki meal, there are several different kinds of kaiseki meals. That could be 8, 10, 20, 30 different dishes. And a Japanese meal is something you do.

[07:22]

It's a meal you do, not just eat. And you do it alone with others. Eat alone with others. Now, if I want to go out with some friends and have a conversation, a real conversation with somebody, I do not go to a Japanese restaurant. If I want to go out with friends and have a conversation with them, I don't go to a Japanese restaurant. Many of you are familiar with Oryoki eating in the Zen tradition.

[08:30]

You've got all these bowls in front of you and they're in your hands and your chopsticks are in your hands. And it doesn't lend itself to talking to your friend next to you. You can drop everything if you want. And in Zen, if you're behind your bowls, you're trapped. I mean, if you have to go to the toilet suddenly, you're trapped. You're in all these bowls and stuff and you can't get up. And a Japanese restaurant is something like that. It's sort of in that direction. But Italian and French restaurants, it's more like the food brought to you and you can talk to people. And Chinese restaurants are, you know, a kind of a family type affair with a lazy Susan and a big round table and you can't even see the person across the way.

[09:44]

So the first thing I... They have pictures of everything. So I told them what I wanted. So I got a miso soup. Now, miso, you never eat miso soup with a spoon. It's just not done. You drink the miso soup. Well, they gave me a bowl, which was so full, I couldn't even pick it up. They gave me a bowl, which was so full, I couldn't even pick it up. And I don't mind hot things, but it was so hot, and there's no way to get it. I couldn't even pick it up because it was so hot. So I used a spoon to get at least lower enough to pick it up.

[11:03]

Now normally the objects in it, tofu and other things, are big enough to pick up with chopsticks. But these are little tiny tofu, you know. From a tofu factory somewhere in Iceland. I don't know. You could drink the whole thing. Once it was cool enough to drink. So it tasted, the taste was okay. But, you know, there were four Asian folks in there.

[12:12]

Not Japanese. Now, Korean, I'm used to, the Koreans do not know how to cook Japanese food. But they get the form of the meal sort of down. But they don't know what to cook toward. You can have a recipe, but if you know what taste you're cooking toward, you can't make it taste any good. And what they don't have is, they don't know what they have to cook for, taste-wise. You can have a recipe, but if you don't have a feeling for what you're cooking for, then you just can't, then the food just doesn't turn out well. So anyway, I'm often in, well, fairly often, I've been in restaurants in Europe, and I say, why do you happen to be Korean? Is that why there's so much kimchi in the menu?

[13:16]

And they say, yes, they're Korean. Well, these four persons were Vietnamese. And completely well-meaning, nice folks. But no idea of what constitutes a Japanese meal. Yeah. Yeah. I learned a lot though. I'm telling you the story. Yeah, so normally you have rice with a Japanese meal. You eat along with the things and the rice gets flavored in the process.

[14:27]

I saw no photographs of rice on the menu, so I missed it, but I finally asked them could I have some rice, and near the end they brought me some rice. But it was in a small bowl and then piled high, so high that if you put your chopstick near it, it all fell. And there's an extra benefit for some reason. They made shaken sesame seeds all over the top of the rice. And then to... I'll try to take the shot. It doesn't work to make it simple. That's how this thing's coming. Yeah, so I ordered two... Then I have deshi tempura.

[15:46]

Ebi tempura. That's shrimp. Okay. Yeah, and it clearly arrived from somewhere frozen and they thawed it and It was, you know, I won't go into that. So I thought I'd try some potstickers, you know. Potstickers? They're called potstickers. They're called also gyoza. Which is a cabbage thing with pork usually in a little wrapper. So they must come in packages of 10 because I got 10 still all stuck together. Rather a lot to serve to a single person eating by themselves.

[17:07]

And then there are special tempura sauces and there are special gyoza sauces. So they're supposed to be. But all there was was this sort of stuff you buy in bottles from the Chinese or Thai, kind of hot, sour, sweet sauce and poured all over it. But the only thing that was there were these Chinese bottles with sweet and sour and so on. That was there anyway and it was poured over the whole thing. I rather like the sauce, but you know, I like it normally, but that was now everywhere. And so then I thought I'd try some sashimi. And it had only recently been thawed.

[18:13]

It was rather empty. It was rather thick. I mean, the idea in Japanese food is it's cut thin so they're serving the taste, not a quantity. So it was rather thick and mushy. But anyway, what did you say? Mushy? Anyway, so I ate and paid and got a taxi and went home. And the place was packed with people.

[19:22]

All young people, no Asians. And I do not know what they thought they were eating. I think they thought it was a Japanese restaurant. No, they didn't. No, no, no. The girls are for drinking, I know. Oh, yeah. Well, I didn't see anybody drinking. They were all eating, but they might have been drinking too. Young people. So why I found it so interesting. Because they really didn't understand the context of Japanese food. Of course, often Vietnamese people eat with their fingers and leaves and things, and they couldn't have certainly done that, but that would have been better.

[20:22]

If they'd run a Vietnamese restaurant, it would probably have been good. So again, I'd never been so struck by how... I was surprised they just didn't go to a few Japanese restaurants and eat and get the idea of what it's supposed to be like. It's like they've never been in a Japanese restaurant. So all of this again made me think about what is a context? And all of this made me think again about what is a context?

[21:39]

How do you form a context that allows conversation or not conversation and so forth? And how do you form a context that promotes conversation or does not allow conversation and so on? And so I was thinking about how do you create a context in your life which includes, in my case, Zen practice and all kinds of other things. I find, you know, I'm staying in this hotel down the way, When I go downstairs or up, I do, and I don't know why I'm mentioning this exactly, but anyway, I do what I call something like each moment yoga.

[22:42]

Each step I take, I present. I like the kind of electric shock that goes up the back of the legs when you bring your heel down to some impact, but not too hard on the floor. So once or twice a day I walk downstairs for some reason. And I get this little one-step yoga one after another, and it's kind of fun. Then I come back and go to the room. And then sit down in the chair and discover a posture in the chair. And all these little things go together to create a context even in a hotel of practice and study and so forth.

[23:59]

And this Vietnamese-run restaurant And this Vietnamese-like restaurant. Got all the little, I would say, all the little aspects off which make a Japanese meal work. And they did bring me chopsticks, but they served the rice with a little metal western spoon. Now I'm not trying to discourage any of you from eating in that restaurant as often as you like. I'm not being a restaurant critic, I'm just... So how... I think context is in such details.

[25:15]

And for me it's like how I walk down the hall. Or open a door. Or do each thing with a feeling of, as I often say, completeness and with a feeling of being nourished by doing it. So that is a larger aspect of practice. But maybe that larger aspect of practice of how you make a context, a mindful, a context, an attentional stream or a context of mindfulness. Perhaps an attentional stream, you can fold in your therapeutic practice, your meditation practice and your familial life and so forth.

[26:22]

This is definitely not something I've ever talked about before. But since I had the first teaching at the Xinyu restaurant last night, I thought I'd bring you the second teaching today. Now, maybe, would you be willing to have a discussion about how to practice and being a therapist work together? Are you ready? Would you like to have a discussion about being a therapist and how this works together with Zen practice? If you're willing, please.

[27:35]

If you're not willing, just keep staring at me. Thank you. Now I'm sitting here. I'm waiting to hear the teachings in my ear. Oh, yeah. Thank you very much. I know a lot of people who do that.

[29:03]

Sake or beer? In the Friedrich-Ebert-Straße. But there is one that's much worse than this. And there is one that's better. I was just astonished and also surprised, but also happy to hear something about going. The possibility to sit down. Outside there is a lot of talk about Odice means that life has to be danced. It is not called the dance of the life, that is an article by Hamdass, but this means that Odice was a

[30:09]

It's an activity. Of course, you can also just say passively in this dance. But dance by dance, by the way, is very important to me. Nietzsche, by the way, said, I'm sorry I can't read the poem, but he said, I think with, I have to move. I think through the mirror. It's always a good idea to change the line. Thank you. I've never changed the line. Can I have a word with him? We have someone, supposedly the stones from the post office floor.

[31:18]

He used to, and Rilke used to... In our Hatzenhaus there are a few of the stones that come from the post office where Nietzsche and Rilke had their post offices. I'll talk to him later. Robert already mentioned Nietzsche. We have a poster up there with the words, the middle is everywhere. That's also from Nietzsche. The middle was apparently. And that is also a question I have for Roshi. There is always this reference point, this reference point.

[32:20]

And in Hannover he was talking about something like that. Is there a change in the tradition? [...] Didn't Roger say something? I don't remember exactly what the saying was in the middle of the Unmittelbarkeit. Roger said something, a saying. I should locate yourself fully in the midst of immediacy and consider the entire universe.

[33:31]

That's one thing. That's one thing. Oh, sure. I mean, of course, there's, I mean, this is 13th century Japanese culture. It's certainly going to be influenced by what we do. But there's also a core which remains rather culture-free. because it is from the 13th century and is influenced by what we do, but there is also a core that is quite stable. Then come here. For me, the separation

[34:53]

Interacting here has been interesting. How I go in, whether I go into the feeling of separation, whether I separate from the normal, whether I separate from the different, I have different interactions. Have you learned a little bit? That when I separate from my feelings, or I don't separate, I can create different levels of contact. but that the spine doesn't work as well for a client as it does for a psychotherapist. I think that the separation is even more important for non-psychotherapists. I think there are both, there are so and so.

[36:15]

There are patients who do not separate, where I have to do that with the therapist, and they are unaccompanied. I think it is coming back and forth again and again, and it depends on what the patients come with, and it is coming back and forth from hour to hour. Yes, but I think that they just need a long training period to stay in the spine. Or that they can also celebrate this. What you always say. Yes, but I think so too. To really develop that. But the patient also has the spine. Yes, yes. And he has an attention and I can make a suggestion to him. From my point of view, what he might be thinking or feeling at the moment, maybe he gets a taste of it. and that is not difficult, it is not really complicated, it is simple and I can go with someone, it does not hold or carry him or it is not his information that runs through him through everything, but at that moment he can tell me very simply how it feels and then taste it, is that something for me, do I want to pursue it further or not?

[37:40]

One of the most frequent interventions of Neuropaths was later in the universe. From whom? From Neuropaths, the founder of Dexterity. I think it is quite different, because it is possible to say that the Old German Museum is still in practice. I think it helps. Of course, you can't hold it as a child, but I think it helps for a moment. It's not just an infection with the head, but you experience the whole thing in that moment. It's always more than the moment you already feel. That's what you feel. For example, if you accompany people in the sound field, depending on where you sit, if you see them from the side, it is very exciting that there are moments when they immediately go out and that it is rare that they come out again very difficultly and sometimes they get distance again and then the spine is immediately there again.

[38:56]

So you always see how they go in and how they go out. So it fits. So, to go back to the original question, does the praxis influence you as a therapist? So, it's always different, but in the last two years, I've mostly been influenced by the idea that if I take the world into myself, I can explain it to myself, so to speak. And if I do that, then I can explain to the patient, then it makes it much easier for the difficult patient to accept it, if I don't have to write down my idea of the opioid, but I can take it in and have to find out that

[39:59]

You are actually only that, exactly that which is in this moment, in me and in the first moment. That is exactly what you are. When you say you hate them, what does that mean? It is more an attitude of openness and not knowing that there is no boundary between me and the world. And in addition, for example, I imagine our work as psychosynthesis, that other people are half-personalities of myself. And these other people are just aspects of myself and myself. I don't have to limit myself and understand everything at all. In addition, I think that the receptive part of the psychotherapy must interact with the sensitive part of the psychotherapy until it is practiced in the best way possible.

[41:20]

I experience a helpful part of the reference to the spine as a possibility for me as a therapist, as well as for my clients as a possibility to come out of the story and from the drama, which is often there, for a moment. And I think this is something very precious, because there is a moment when there is a new quality of experience. For the client who comes out of an emergency, this is something completely new that he doesn't know at all. And to offer him this as a possibility, I think, is a great It means for me that I also create it in myself at that moment, otherwise he cannot experience it at all.

[43:13]

He needs, so to speak, the space that is open to me, that's how I experience it anyway. If I can't do it, then I'll have to deal with something else, well, he won't get it either. I remember what Roshi said about the leaves and the tree. I knew about the leaves. I never paid attention to the tree. Yesterday evening, through a conversation we had, I went to Seelenberg Park and looked for a tree. The trunk was always moving. At the next moment you didn't see the trunk, but I found one. And what I found was a very strange moment that I didn't know otherwise, so consciously, that I saw the leaves, how they move, I perceived the trunk and suddenly something like I am the trunk came and then my head says such nonsense.

[44:24]

but I was able to let it go a little bit, so I suddenly noticed that there is something outside of the thinking, and that's what I thought when listening to your example, so when you talk about the client, on the one hand he is there with all his things, and when you perceive that and also perceive the calmness in him, so to speak, then you may also bring this room a little further where he finds himself in this contradiction. So, try to describe it that way. Yes, yes, I already understand what you mean. What I meant was also to make it clear that I offer him the trunk, so to speak, without that he cannot have any experience of the trunk. Exactly, that's what I meant.

[45:26]

I think that's a quality of a spiritual teacher for me, who offers a larger space than the one I have experienced so far. An expanded experience. And only by embodying this experience It gives me an example of embodiment that I gradually experience in myself. In the last year, I had hinted that I wanted to have a philosophical conversation in my life. And I have done that now. And I have conducted my first conversations. I have made an exciting observation.

[46:33]

I have the advantage as a philosopher, I am not a fool, not a boy or anything else. I am free in my choice. And the only excuse I follow in the conversation, I want the guest who agrees to it, shake, almost put it on the head so that it lets the mind think. And the interesting thing that I noticed is that it is unimaginable that no matter where you touch it, there is always some kind of thought. And I ... I can't say exactly what I'm doing there, because it just arises, and I'm constantly moving towards it. And then recently in a reflection someone who did this to me said to me,

[47:36]

Ellen, I saw you in your eyes and I didn't see any delay. And because I didn't see any delay, I went with her. That means she actually just tried to drop this thinking. And finally she sat there He hit himself in the head and said, so easy. And where did we end up? At the body. He went out and laughed for a quarter of an hour. That was the most obvious conversation. But all the others actually end up like that. The body is somehow as if it doesn't even exist. I find it very exciting what you just said, because I thought, is it even possible to prevent thinking through thinking?

[48:48]

Then it means, yes, I am in the system and want to change the system. But a system change is only possible if I do not put it outside the system. And that means I have to introduce something further, from there I, so to speak, re-enter. The perception of the system. Then the body is almost necessary. But the interesting thing is that the people who let themselves in on the conversation do not come to it. There comes soul, there comes perception, there comes perception, and I get hot, I get cold, and what do I know? Yes, stop, stop, stop. We are still not at the right... I pinched them, and that's when it got clear. But when I go to a philosopher, I expect that thought. The philosopher is the friend of wisdom. Wisdom is a being. And wisdom, where is it?

[49:50]

For example. When I started to practice, I was very curious and I wanted to discover myself very quickly and I wanted to learn a lot. And the longer I am with you now, the more I notice, the less I think, the further I get. Thank you. I'm a beginner in philosophy studies and I can't say yet whether I want to agree with the philosopher or not, whether the knowledge is so possible or just small answers.

[51:08]

I'm still on my way. But what I have noticed in the course of the last day is that I always get this own pillar and the own trunk, not only in the groups, but in every person, and that these leaves What did you all think about the socialization in the circles, with the leprosy, or with your cousins, all the branches that suddenly come to you, that you suddenly don't want to deal with them anymore? and somehow get away with it. But I think that maybe when everyone has their own branch, when they are aware of it, they can also be aware that the branches don't always have to fit together. So, for example, my mother told me that if I was angry at someone, I should never say, I hate them. I hate them, I hate them. Unless it was always the expression, I'm not on a wave with him.

[52:09]

And I should always say that, and I still say that today. And I think this is a sentence that reminds you again that you don't have to see other people the same way as yourself. You are self-conscious. but I can still see the others, maybe recognize the pillar, or maybe only the leaves, but still create a feeling for how you can act together, without having to go into the depths of it, now in social contact. I haven't experienced therapy so much now, but maybe we can apply it. And my father has here, those who know me already, once told me that the word Scheit was also understood in such a way that it derives from the word Scheit, a wooden Scheit. This is a piece of the tree trunk and with every, we might call it making a mistake or failing, but with every Scheit that you remove,

[53:14]

you make the piece of wood that you have usable for yourself, which has nothing to do with failure. It's just a separation from one thing, but consciously with the thing that you keep, to be able to deal with it more consciously. And I found the idea for my own philosophy It is very helpful to be in contact with others. When I realize that it is just me, that she has now maybe a little bit rejected and says, I have said goodbye to it or I don't want that anymore, it is still a trunk that I see there and that can be processed, can be processed in itself. And I came through that I can also end with this shit or with that shit. Shaitan, go shaitan. I would like to come back to your question about the impact of the practice on my therapeutic activity.

[55:06]

There is one aspect that, at the end of a working day, more and more, there is a gratitude that people let me participate in their lives. And how do you feel about that? I don't find it at all natural that people share their lives with me. and not only in parts, but in deep parts that are often very unique. Sometimes they talk to me about things that they don't talk to anyone else about. And I experience that it is less and less natural that this happens. And at the end of the day, great, so grateful that they let me in, I could accompany them for a while, and then they went on again on their own.

[56:19]

And I just find that very ... I don't know how to describe it, but it is so. And another aspect is that at the moment I have a client She defends herself with her hands and feet when I come up with any suggestions or ideas. It's just wonderful. As soon as I have an opinion, she says, it's her opinion. It's not her concept, it's her concept. She just needs a space where she can, so to speak, can develop by reflecting on what is happening in her life, and she only needs a listener. Someone who creates a space, who is simply there and sometimes asks and sometimes makes small remarks, but nothing that interferes or interferes in her process, in the sense of ideas or techniques or so.

[57:28]

Models are not only men. and then she always leaves and thanks and says thank you and then she leaves. So these are also things that I take with me from my Zen practice, simply to follow my process and simply to follow the process, also the knowledge and to intervene with little. How to cook your life?

[58:38]

Norbert asked earlier how much Dogen's view of the past is still as meaningful today or how does it change, because everything changes. And then I thought about taste issues and how we feel about our lives is also a taste issue, I would say. And I always ask myself, cooking alone, but of course also when a patient is sitting in front of me or I am in a conversation with others, what is good about it, what do I want to preserve, so to speak, what taste is it, so to speak, that I would like to restore? And what do I want to further develop creatively at the moment? Well, how many questions does the woman in front of you actually expect? At least you can ask something new. Or is it already your question? And then you also intervene too much. That we are constantly balancing between what we want to preserve and what we want to recreate and develop. And therapy is from my point of view, even if I look back at a person, at a life, it's actually, how does the next step go on?

[60:04]

So, at most, you try to clear the way, which disturbs the future or the further development. But that has to be found out first, what it is exactly. To find this balance or to establish it over and over again. Thank you. Since we're going to end in a while, and I think we can have a break. We've been sitting for something like sitting for an hour and a half, I think. So we can have a break and then we can have another half hour or so together. And one thing I'd like to know is if I do the Kassel seminar again next year.

[61:14]

You'd like this, you're adding more of a discussion together and not so much asking me questions. Or speaking to me and not so easy to speak to everyone. As it's been in the past. In the past it would... Because of the formation of the room, configuration of the room, people spoke to me rather than to each other more. Yeah, so I'm trying to change that. So the question is, shall we continue with that if... I'll do a seminar next year. And also, when we come back afterwards, is there something you would like me to speak about?

[62:18]

Or should we just have 15 minutes of zazen? Anyway, Yeah, I'm trained. Yeah, or you can ask me now or ask me later and I'll see if I have something to say. Thank you very much. How do you pay for it?

[63:19]

We missed the TV. Yes. He's gone to the Xinyu. I'm sure you have the experience, if you're a therapist, of trusting what comes up.

[65:03]

The experience of trusting what comes up in the context of the therapeutic I thought maybe I could speak to that from the perspective of meditation practice. You said you had a question you wanted to ask? Yeah, but why don't you speak? It's not so important. Really? Yeah. I see you. I was touched when Dorothea came to the seminar in Hanover. And she brought up something I haven't spoken about in years.

[66:10]

Which is the practice of following a thought to its source. And it just made me think I should maybe speak about that again sometime soon. So here's the soon. Now in Zen we're very little interested in previous lives and things like that. No practice in Zen depends on any idea of a previous life. A previous life is a continuity of your present consciousness. But it is helpful to notice, and it's easiest to do this as part of Zazen practice occasionally, that some thought appears.

[67:35]

And it just appears. And you wonder where it came from. So you, as best you can, notice the thought and see if you can notice what the previous thought was. And you go backwards in your mind, seeing if you can follow the causal chain backwards. Now, this requires the Doesn't sound like much, but again, a rather important yogic skill of distinguishing attention from thoughts. So you're in following a thought back to its, as much as you can, back to its source.

[68:43]

You are also developing the distinction between a mental formation called a thought and the dynamic of attention. Now, it takes, I would say, some months of doing this, you know, many of the periods of zazen, but not every one necessarily. And you develop more and more skill at following the causal chain backwards. So dass du immer eine immer bessere Fähigkeit entwickelst, dieser Kausalkette rückwärts zu folgen.

[70:07]

And it begins to give you a perspective. It's a way to actually develop experience in how the mind works. Und es ist eine Art und Weise tatsächlich Erfahrung darin zu sammeln, wie der Geist funktioniert. Now usually when it goes back, the source usually goes back to a sensorial event. Normalerweise lässt sich die Quelle auf ein Sinnesereignis hin zurückführen. And, you know, you heard a sound or something. Du hast einen Klang gehört oder irgendwie sowas. Or a thought occurred accompanied by anxiety or something like that. Oder ein Gedanke ist aufgetaucht und wurde von einer Form von Angst begleitet. And then you can also try to notice, was there a sensorial event that led to the anxious thought? Or are anxious thoughts just kind of... under the surface waiting for an excuse to bug you.

[71:13]

For some reason we fear perfection. Well, we don't really have to worry about it. We're not going to get perfect. But still, there's fear of some relative perfection. And it's also often linked to a kind of bodily trauma. Or an unsureness that you don't really deserve to exist or something. So all of these things are waiting, and if you start feeling good, they say, ha, [...] ha.

[72:25]

Yeah. He thinks that Buddha is better than ego. No, I'll show him how powerful ego is. So ego doesn't give up easily. And if you really... Start to practice in a way that challenges ego in any serious way. Ego will threaten you with everything. Suicide, craziness, etc. Being disliked. When you really start... to practice it in such a way that you put the ego in serious danger, then the ego will start to attack you with all sorts of things, with suicidal thoughts, or to be crazy, or to be loved.

[73:33]

Alright, so just this simple process of following a thought to its source, you really learn a lot about how the mind functions. And you begin to be able to negotiate within that space. And you're beginning to create a mental space within which attention can notice and make discriminations. No. After you've been relatively successful at coming back to, yes, that's really where this train of thought, trains of thought, endless tracks. But usually there's, for that particular train of thought, there's usually a kind of beginning.

[74:42]

Okay, so we could call that source mind. And then, all mental phenomena have a physical component and all sentient phenomena have a mental component. And again, phantom phenomena have an experiment and correlate to a physical phenomenon or a spirit. So, in a small meditation practice, you can use the physical component of what I'm calling a whole mind. And because of the relaxation practice, you can use the whole mind. And you can start And, um... Um...

[76:02]

and you can notice the little and mental form that leads to certainly a trauma that arises from some kind of past or physical emotional trauma. You trigger some kind of traumatic physical because children's story about the stool train that could say Do you know the story about the little train? The little train. [...] And sometimes there's, uh, uh, uh, trauma.

[77:38]

Uh, uh. And they say, uh, uh, uh, [...] uh. in a switch and the track goes off that in a swing. We're not gonna keep me awake tonight. So you can play around like that. And if you find certain benefits, you're more likely to go to sleep. So that's an outer and inner practice that evolves from their source. And this is a kind of external and external practice that develops by sending thoughts back to their source.

[78:44]

I'm calling that a source. Part of the kind. A source. Not just a source. A source. A kind of source. Things first arise. Back to a source. A source. Where things rise up. Sound. Okay. Waiting. Now, speaking about, trying to speak about context. And I don't think I've found a way to clear what I mean by . [...] Establish this. Frage. Eins. Column. Wenn du diese... Wenn du gerade Atem... You're establishing a context.

[79:49]

Then you establish, you set the context. And as I think from many of you have said, from can feel that being your, affecting your overall in your life. And what many of us feel is that your overall influence somehow was the context. walking. I'm in an abject context. You operate in an abject context. Okay, so this practice which I'm speaking about now is establishing a context. Because what I'm trying to move towards is establishing trust. Okay, so use breath. Context is also the room you're sitting in or you're going to meet a client.

[80:53]

And I think it's useful to Look and step. Visually look at and proprioceptively the space of the room. A space. A bodily sense of the room. Proportion. Okay, then. Feeling that... Sorry, this exercise may seem kind of cookie, but this is what I do. You pull that into the room and investigate it. Invest.

[81:57]

We investigate. To invest. Fold it back out. And then the client is going to... And then the client is going to... And then the client is going to... Connectivity. So cool. So cool. Type. Type connectivity. Your mic. Your mic. Okay. Oh. When you're imagining, for me it's Doxan, but for you it's a client relationship.

[83:00]

In general, it happens in Doxan, but for you in a psychotherapeutic client situation, the person comes in, sits down, the person comes in and sits down. or an extension to a juliet in the air and then stand with his hands looking at me. He looks like he's looking at me. And I once came in and he did a salto and he landed on his arm and looked at me like that. You couldn't do it. But, but, and he, [...] But this little guy was fairly crazy this afternoon. One of my students was so worried, he was standing outside the door like a body, rushing in and helping us.

[84:01]

So I watched him for a while with his head in my hand. I said, you know, you could sit normally. Oh, sweet. He was kind of fun. I saw him two or three times over a few days. But let's take a normal sitting. In the process, a mental or emotional event or image or something appears. Now, can you trust that image or that feeling? Or let's say it's an isolated thought that just... And you can feel around the thought a kind of density or intensity of space.

[85:28]

Now, can you trust, now this is my, I don't know how this works in therapy. And to what degree there's teachings about this stuff in the therapeutic tradition? Or if there's just your personal experience in learning what you can trust and what you can't. Now the meditation tradition would be is that the more you have separated attention from thinking and you have participated in establishing the context in which this intersubjective space has occurred

[86:41]

Space has occurred. Often you can trust that what appears has something to do with what's going on between the two of you. dann kann man oft vertrauen, dass das, was auftaucht, etwas mit euch beiden zu tun hat. Or if you're working on a koan or something like that. Oder wenn man an einem koan arbeitet. Or trying to solve Fermat's last equation. In other words, you're trying to reach into something that is unsolvable. something complex in your own life, or something that involves another person's well-being. And let's assume that none of us are smart enough to think our way to what is necessary.

[88:05]

We have to find our way, discover our way, and that discovery often appears or doesn't appear, but if it does appear as a mental or an image event, you have to know whether to trust it or not. And the more it appears in a kind of big space, big feeling inner space, and it's very particular to the context that you've established with this other person.

[89:16]

You can explore to what degree this has something to do or will have something to do with resolving the situation in the person and in your relationship. And Geralt's client would just say, that's your inner secret concept. And then Geralt would say, how did you know that? I didn't say a word. Anyway, so what I'm trying to speak about here is what kind of mental, bodily mind space allows a creativity which you can trust?

[90:32]

Okay. So maybe that's enough said about that. Now, what was your question? It's not the right context. Anybody got a right context? Here. time to quit anyway, but I'm happy to have the right context than I temporarily. I can say that you can, as I said, here I'm talking about meditation, but I'm also talking about meditation making use of the physical space you're in somewhat consciously. I'm speaking about not just an inner meditation experience, but making use of the external space you happen to be sitting in.

[91:50]

I'm glad you tell me when you don't quite understand or I haven't been clear. Because I've had so many translators in the past who just started telling stories. Yeah. making up what they think i might have said or mishearing i think i told you about in berlin once that when uh everybody looked very funny in the room You're speaking about calm, abiding mind. I'm not. I can't understand how you translate it. What are you saying?

[93:13]

Oh, just what you said, karma-biting mind. This is the base of Pac-Man. So, you can also, in the space of the room, what I would do, is establish this location of the breath spine column. And then I might settle the room into the second aspect with succession of breaths and feel experience in this succession of breaths.

[94:39]

And even settle my body instead of my body breathing I'm now settling my body into my breath. Now, if I do that, I generally create a context in which I can trust what appears. In meditation or in a field of... open field of... a field of mind open to a succession of stream moments. Now, as many of you know, you've been to Quellenweg, Johanneshof.

[95:42]

And Johanneshof, Quellenweg is obviously... a context for practice. But I would say it has arisen from such practices as settling the space of a room in one's own breath and spine and body. Settling it into what? And that becomes a kind of barometer or dharmometer to feel how to develop jnana self-quell and wake.

[96:56]

And I think, excuse me for saying so, I think one can bring such a feeling into one's own life to decide what proportion of my life is this and that and what kind of space I want to create the space I live in and walk in. And you create a communal space like this where everybody, even the neighborhood kids decide to come during a seminar and ask to go swimming. Okay, thank you very much. And may I ring the bell and we will have a few moments of bell and mine? Lock and geist. Sounds like a bad movie.

[98:29]

Walking Geist. How many spines do you have?

[99:44]

Which one is operating just now, functioning just now?

[99:51]

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