But this kind of effort, I think, hmm, [...] should be based on a fairly developed meditation and mindfulness practice. meditationspraxis und erachtsamkeitspraxis. Okay, I think that's enough for me to say for now. And so, is there something you'd like to discuss? Ich glaube, das ist für mich jetzt genug, was ich hiermit gesagt habe. Gibt es etwas, was ihr diskutieren wollt? Thank you for translating that. Very welcome. There's someone over there.

[01:08]

Several people over there. I know. Yes? Something of what you said was, while you're thinking, your mind is watching your mind thinking. Right? Did I understand you right? I feel a strong aversion against this since many years. And probably this is also one reason why I went away from practicing because it doesn't feel like a goal I would like to reach. It feels as if I would end up being two, one living and the other one watching. And I think I have a problem anyway with being spontaneous, so this doesn't really seem like being a good practice for me. Mm-hmm.

[02:10]

Deutsch. Bitte. There was a step before, where it was said that the mind is watching how the mind is being thought. I have aversion towards that, because I fear that So in the end I would be two, one who lives and one who thinks. And since I have no problem with being spontaneous, it doesn't feel like something I would like to achieve at all. I understand and I think it's a good objection. And I don't know quite how to answer.

[04:09]

I actually don't think it's a problem. If I look at my watch, I'm seeing the watch. But I'm seeing the watch. Am I observing my mind? I look at you and say I don't like blue shirts. I only like black shirts. So if I look at you and the feeling arises that I don't like blue shirts.

[05:21]

I notice that my not liking blue shirts is interfering with my looking at you. Am I observing my mind? I guess I am observing my mind. But at least for me it's no problem. Because I'm observing lots of things. I don't find that I'm observing one thing, and if I observe that, it's replacing or interfering.

[06:24]

When you talk to somebody on the phone, and you hear some kind of nervousness in their voice, they're upset, right? you say, are you in a good mood or are you something? That's natural to do, isn't it? But you're observing that you're listening to their voice but you're also hearing something else at the same time. I don't think practice is any different from that. So for you, how is it different than that? Is this a question?

[07:28]

Yes. So far I guess I thought that I could do only one thing at a time in a very strict sense. And now I begin to understand that there is a difference. Like yesterday you said something about the field of awareness, and that was something new to me too.

[08:28]

This seems to be similar. Yes, it's similar, yes. Yes, so so far I thought that in a very strict sense it was only about doing one thing at a time and I notice that, so I start to understand that several things are possible at the same time, similar to this field of attention that was discussed yesterday and what has now been explained seems to be similar. Thank you. I've had many, many objections to practice like yours. But I guess I've at the same time trusted practice. And I've just been willing to try it out.

[09:32]

So I've found... I found solutions to my reservations. Then when people come to Crestone, I often feel... Boy, what we do is quite artificial. And if you see it as artificial, why should you bother to do it? But if you see it as rather arbitrary interruptions of our habits, Then it begins to make sense. You see that it's not exactly arbitrary either. For example, when we do kin-hin, you know.

[10:33]

We... Stand straight. And there's quite a few different ways to do kin hin. But this is the way I've settled on, Sukershi and I have settled on. You step forward with your exhale. Half a step. And your ankles are this distance apart.

[11:36]

And I've gotten, I think you've noticed, if you've ever seen me standing somewhere, almost any time I stand, my ankles are that far apart. Is that artificial? I don't know. Maybe it is. What isn't artificial? Is my hairstyle natural? If I let it grow, never combed it, is that natural? I would have the matted hair of a... Hindu Satu. Whatever. Whatever you do is a style. This is my hair-dote. Your hair-dote instead of a hairdo. Sorry. So we put our hands like this.

[12:56]

So I'm going to explain the reasons for these things. I don't know why I'm doing this. So you step forward half a step with your exhale. And you lift your heel on your inhale. And you step forward on the exhale. And if you want to be more developed in it, you bring your energy up the back of your leg. You tighten the back of your leg and bring your energy up the back of your leg, across your neck and here. And then with the exhale, you step forward and put your energy down into your foot. And with the exhalation, bring the energy down and step through the foot and then forward.

[14:05]

And then bring the energy through the other leg to the head and then forward again. You don't have to be conscious of doing that every time, but you might do it two or three times, the first two or three steps. That's not so different than learning to play the piano. How you sit on the bench, how your arm should be if you're going to have... Your hands move freely. And your hands, we usually put together like this, and like this, and then this hand on top. And we make our arms parallel to the ground. And then you lift, turn your hands slightly. Now, some Zen folks do it this way.

[15:09]

But I find that too rigid myself. But this is too relaxed. So, if you turn your hands slightly, you can feel there's more alertness in it. There's quite a kind of your energy is like that. And there's a difference between what we call rising mind and sinking mind. Sinking mind is, oh shit, I fell down and everything. I fell down and everything. Wrong today. That's sinking mind. Rising mind is you fall down. Jesus, this is hilarious. I fell down again. So, if you do small things like this, it actually makes more of a rising mind.

[16:11]

This, your energy kind of droops. It's a little bit like sometimes you want to take a nap, but you exercise instead and you have more energy than if you're taking a nap. Sometimes it's better to take a nap. So it's turning and we walk. Now we have an idea of natural in our culture as somehow being the default position of no effort or something. But in yogic culture, natural is what happens through discipline.

[17:12]

Like in... Somebody like Michael Jordan is extremely spontaneous, the basketball player. Is extremely creative and... unpredictable in what he's going to do next, and spontaneous, but definitely rises out of discipline. So for me, for instance, my learning to keep my feet that far apart has been part of being aware of my feet. I hardly knew what was going on down there until I started practicing.

[18:45]

So I figured, if I can at least know where my feet are, what does awareness mean? So I learned to be aware of my feet by learning to keep my ankles that far apart. So now that my feet and legs are more aware, they're actually freer and more spontaneous, I think. So I don't know the answer to your question. If I'm going somewhere, I carry a suitcase.

[19:56]

I'm aware I'm carrying a suitcase. And I kind of like to carry suitcases. It's true. Especially for heavy ones. Yeah. And I don't know what it is. I usually have two suitcases at least, and both are always very close to the weight limit of 70 pounds. And I don't know what it is. I usually have two or more suitcases, and they are always at the limit of 32 kilos. And then everybody wants to help me with the heavy suitcases. Because they think I'm an old man. But I think, if I can't carry my own luggage, I shouldn't pack so much. So I actually like carrying them.

[20:57]

I pack these things, I carry them. But sometimes I put them down. And it feels much better. It feels much better. So for me, observing my mind is like observing there's lots of suitcases in my mind. And I notice I'm carrying this suitcase of the distinction between self and others. And I'm carrying this other suitcase that I think, you know, something in the future is better. Now is not enough. I have to go somewhere. So I've got all these suitcases.

[21:58]

And I keep noticing, I've got all these suitcases. And I'm glad I've noticed I have all these suitcases. Because by noticing them I sometimes put them down. And then my mind feels quite free and empty. Uh-huh. And spontaneous. It's quite a lot easier to do things when I don't have all my mental hands for suitcases. So let's put our suitcases down together. All of us. Okay, what else? Yes. It has to do with the form.

[23:03]

Is the form something of discipline, or is the form something of what you told about in him? And what do you mean by form as objects of mind? What does the form mean with this example? Is it something that has to do with discipline? Is it something that has to do with the form of the human being? It simply means that there's the form of the world. But the form of the world that we know is only what we can perceive of it. through our senses and mind and conceptions and so forth. So whatever you see, you're seeing the limitations of your own perceptions and conceptions.

[24:09]

So for us human beings, Phenomena is forms of the mind. But mind isn't limited to that. Mind goes beyond perceptions and conceptions. And the best way to discover that is to see perceptions and conceptions as mind. And that's the practice of mindfulness of the mind. Your mindfulness of the forms of mind and through that you become mindful of mind itself. Does that sort of answer your question?

[25:19]

Okay. Yes? I have a question about intention and idea. In my experience of Zen practice, I have experienced that the intention becomes easily an idea, and I become quite arrogant. And I judge more and so on. So I take the practice as a form of judgment. And... Maybe I'd like you to clarify intention and ideal a little bit. Can you give me an example how intention becomes an ideal? As an example, the intention to do it like this. And then I see somebody else doing it differently. What a weak head, or I don't know. What a weak head. Or just kind of the form becomes a kind of obstacle because it becomes a judgment towards others.

[26:20]

So in my doing it and kind of doing it correct, it kind of feels like a spiritual idealism had built up. Deutsch bitte. Could you say it in German? In my experience with sand practice, the form has become an obstacle for me. I judge others. It becomes an obstacle, the form, because I judge others. Reminds me of Bobby Fischer.

[27:25]

You know who that is? The chess player? He was the most famous chess player in the world 20 years ago or so. Quite eccentric and good chess player. He lived secretly in Germany in a farmhouse once. Did any of you know that? He tried to hide who he was. I guess the farmer kept peering in through the crack in the shutters and saw this guy playing chess. And in local games they'd play, he was awfully good. So this guy guessed and said, anyway, Bobby Fischer. Somebody was interviewing Bobby Fischer.

[28:25]

And he was putting down, criticizing all other chess players, one after another. And finally the interviewer said to him, you know, criticized every other chess, put down every other chess player. What do you think of people who don't play chess? He said, oh, those wikis. I realized I was a weakie at that moment. So what do you think of those people who don't do their zen, those weak heads? Because it's another interesting question. It's another interesting question.

[29:41]

I don't know. These practices are just to help people. And if people don't do them, this is their choice. Can I say something? Sure, please. For me it brings up the question, why am I doing it? Am I doing it for me or am I doing it to show someone something? It's the question, why am I doing it for me, with me, every day? It is about me and sharing it with others. It's not the feeling of being better or showing something.

[31:12]

It's just, that's what I'm doing. Yeah. Yeah, well, you know, I, in the morning in Crestone, do what's called Jundo. Do you do it when? In the mornings at Christ's home. And it's a kind of morning greeting. Yes, so I walk around. And as I walk around, or whoever's leading the zazen, and I go through the room, and whoever guides me there, walks around, Everyone else puts up their hand as you go by. Now the Rinzai style is more like this.

[32:18]

Soto style is more like this. And again, your distance is like this. And the tip of your fingers is at the tip of your nose. These are all yoga postures, basically. And underneath your arm is about the size of an egg. Scramble. Scramble. And your thumbs are against like that. They're not like this. And our sense of this is you put your hands together. More or less at this chakra.

[33:24]

Bring them up into the heart chakra. And then bring it up into shared space here. So I walk around and there are some people like this. In various ways. Some people forget. Not that early. Yeah, that early someday. I don't care, you know. So then I notice some people are doing it because they don't see it. They just don't look around, so they don't know it's different. Or they don't have much precision in how they do things.

[34:27]

And some people, I notice, resist it. They have to do it a little differently so they feel individual. So I walk around and I say, oh, he's being individual. And then there's people like this and I say, he misses his mother. But for some reason I don't care. It's I'm sorry he misses his mother. Sometimes, if somebody's like this, I wait. And maybe after a month or two, I'll reach around and push the thumb up.

[35:33]

And if I intuitively do it at the right moment, the debate with me I remember it clearly in Santa Fe. What did it feel like? It felt like it was exactly the right moment and I always kept my thumbs close to the fingers since then. Yeah, it's sometimes an experience for the person. But usually I think, well, I'm not a very good teacher. These people don't do it right. But I don't... It's hard for me to think, oh, I'm better than I am because I... Thumbs together.

[36:37]

I keep my thumbs together. I don't have these feelings actually. It's actually quite interesting to me what people do. Each one of us is quite magical and I'm in awe of it. Some other, shall we stop? Ten to one. Nine to one. For me every seminar is an adventure.

[37:39]

I don't know what's going to happen. And usually I learn something. So why don't we sit for a few minutes and then have lunch?

[38:07]

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