Gar kein schlechter Anfang. Wir haben uns gedacht, vielleicht sollten wir mit einem Augenblick der Stille beginnen, indem wir uns sammeln, so eine Minute oder so. And then we'll take a break of two minutes. For each of us, one. Und in dieser Zeit könnt ihr euch auch schon auf das Thema vorbereiten, das wir vorschlagen. Das ist nur ein Vorschlag, wir können es auch ändern. Wir haben uns das überlegt, dass es vielleicht gut wäre. We have already talked about so many other things, that we now at least begin to focus on the great challenges and opportunities that our time gives us. So the great challenges, the great possibilities of our time, especially this time.

[01:06]

and then ask the questions. It starts with you, with your questions. And we will then try to answer this from our very different perspectives. This shows the differences and the similarities of the perspectives in different ways. And at the same time it is about the great concerns of our time. Okay? Good. Then we can already be in silence and focus a little bit on it. And then afterwards, start with your questions. That's what we do.

[04:03]

Wir sind gebeten worden, die Fragen immer zu wiederholen oder zusammenzufassen. Die Frage, wenn ich sie richtig verstanden habe, ist die, im 13. Kapitel des Korintherbriefes ist das sogenannte »Hohe Lied der Liebe«, ein ganzes Kapitel über die Liebe. Wie übersetzt man das in ganz konkrete Taten in unserer Zeit? Ungefähr richtig? Oder fehlt noch etwas? Gut. Und da müssen wir jetzt beide, also von unseren verschiedenen Gesichtspunkten aus, darauf zu antworten versuchen. I thought you told me. But I don't know what the 15th letter of Philippians is.

[05:48]

Aha. But you should know. Well, you'll remember it. And we only need to talk about love. Yeah, Roshi doesn't know what the 13th Korinther letter is. In that case, he can't answer the question. You have to speak in English, too. I have to speak in English? No, I'm just trying. Yeah. Ich komme zuerst dran. Die Schwierigkeit, diesen Text, den vielleicht viele von Ihnen kennen, ist nicht so wichtig, oder irgendeinen Text, besonders einen biblischen Text, über Liebe zu zu übersetzen in unsere konkrete Situation heute.

[06:51]

Die Schwierigkeit hängt daran, dass wir das Wort Liebe nicht übersetzen können. Es heißt so vielerlei und es ist andererseits so vage. So glaube ich, dass es uns schon sehr helfen wird, wenn wir uns darüber einig werden können, was wir eigentlich mit Liebe meinen. Das ist keine Definition der Liebe, das kann es nicht geben, aber was meinen wir damit? Und ich würde vorschlagen, das kann man dann auch noch im Gespräch verfeinern, ich würde vorschlagen, dass Etwas, was alle Formen der Liebe, alles das, was wir Liebe nennen, gemeinsam haben, also das Herz und das Wesentliche der Liebe, darin besteht, dass wir zum Zusammengehören Ja sagen.

[07:52]

Liebe könnte man verstehen als das Ja zur Gemeinsamkeit. Das Ja zur Gemeinsamkeit. und ein Ja, das nicht nur mit den Lippen gesprochen wird, sondern ein Ja, das mit dem ganzen Leben verwirklicht wird. Und wenn wir diese work definition, work definition, then we have already come a step further, because today we only have enough of that community that includes everything. A community that is not all-inclusive can no longer meet the great tasks of our time. Natürlich gibt es immer wieder kleine Gemeinschaften, Freundschaften, Familien, Gruppen und so weiter, aber die müssen immer gesehen werden, wenn ich das richtig verstehe, im Rahmen der ganzen globalen Einheit.

[08:58]

Die Gemeinsamkeit, zu der wir heute Ja sagen, das heißt Liebe, muss immer die weltweite sein. Und zwar nicht nur menschlich gesehen, sondern der ganze Kosmos, unsere ganze Umwelt, Mitwelt, die Umwelt, die Mitwelt ist, alle Tiere, Pflanzen, das ganze Weltall muss eingeschlossen sein. Und zudem müssen wir Ja sagen und Ja nicht nur sagen, sondern mit unserem ganzen Leben dafür eintreten. And that could lead to a translation of the passages that speak about love, especially the chapter that was indicated here. So I see it at least from my perspective and it will now be particularly interesting to see it from a Zen or Buddhist perspective, because only if we look with two eyes do we really get a deep look. Is there anyone here who only speaks English, other than me?

[10:14]

There's at least three people I know. Four or five. Shall we translate into English? Or is it easier to do it just in German? Aha. Is here jemand, der nicht Englisch versteht? If it's such a small group, we had that also in a previous session, that somebody who can translate quickly from German into English, if there is somebody, oh, you sit right there, then you can translate for a long time. And there's some in the back. If somebody wants to come in the front, sit next to someone who can translate for you. Okay.

[11:17]

Well, I'll try to respond even though I haven't really heard it in English, but I'll try to respond as best I can. The word people always ask of Buddhism and of Zen, where is the Christian love? And usually I think people mean some fairly familiar idea of love to them. And I'm not sure it's what the Bible means by love. But Christian... The non-biblical... And Christianity is not my practice, so I don't know it from the inside.

[12:38]

So I can only speak about my sense of the use of the word love in a kind of ordinary way. And the thing that immediately happens in that is, what about hate and all the things that aren't love? Because in Buddhist practice you can't meditate if a bad thought is bad. Because one of the qualities of meditation is that you are free from your script, your personal script. And I believe in one of Dostoevsky's novels, he says something like, the thought of killing the father is the same as killing the father.

[13:59]

If that were the case, you couldn't meditate. Because all the possibilities of Hate, love, killing, what human beings do appears in your meditation. And what, there's a big difference in Buddhism to thinking something and acting on it. And one of the beauties of thought actually is it can entertain all the possibilities of the world. So you can know the possibilities including the bad possibilities. Okay, how can you be free from that script? I mean, how can you be free from contamination by those thoughts? Real specifically, The practice of sitting still, you really find out with your body that you don't need to act on your thoughts.

[15:21]

So you can sit still through anything. That means all your personalities past, present and future that float out there in the sticky stuff of time. That float parallel to you outside your script. And including all the things people do to each other. can appear, you can own them and decide not to do them. So you can own what it means to be a human being, which includes not just love and being good. So the sense in Buddhism is not an emphasis on love so much.

[16:41]

But an emphasis on connectedness. To realize your connectedness with each person. And we wouldn't call that connectedness love or hate or anything. It's just we're connected. And you more and more feel that person is also you. And then as you develop that, the word for that in Buddhism is compassion. So Buddhism emphasizes through the word compassion and putting yourself in the place of others, this connectedness more than an idea of love. Now it also emphasizes in the light that Brother David brought up an affirming state of mind.

[17:45]

An affirming state of mind is considered to be a different kind of mind than a critical mind. It doesn't mean that an affirming state of mind excludes being critical. It means that an affirming state of mind first of all accepts and says yes. I see this, I hear this. And then you may shift into a critical state of mind, but a different kind of energy starts to happen then. So you practice with an affirming state of mind. And then within that, we practice unlimited friendliness. Which I carry to an extreme sometimes.

[19:09]

My friends say to me, would you stop smiling at everybody? We can't get down the street, you start talking to people. But you know, I sort of overdo things. And you practice empathetic joy. Which means even though there's suffering in the world, what the person who's suffering wants is joy. So you find that joy in yourself, even though the other person is suffering. And you empathize with that joy that's also in the other person who's suffering. As well as seeing and accepting the suffering. Anyway, there's various practices like that, which I won't go into all of them, but that are meant to find a way to establish this sense of connectedness.

[20:23]

Which is finally a larger identity. Dass du dazu geneigt bist, in diesen Dingen über Bord zu gehen, das kann ich selber aus Erfahrung beweisen. Wir sind einmal gemeinsam quer über den ganzen amerikanischen Kontinent gefahren. and there were these hitchhiking people and first we passed one of them He said to me, anybody who doesn't pick up, he hinted, anyone who doesn't pick up a hitchhiker can't really be a friend of mine. So I said, we're going back to get that hitchhiker.

[21:54]

And we drove right over the center strip. Und dann haben wir den nicht nur mitgenommen, sondern zum Mittagessen hat er ihn eingeladen. Und dann hat er noch über Nacht ein Hotelzimmer bezahlt. Aber um auf die Werkdefinition von Liebe zurückzukommen, What Bekaroshi said here, in parallel to what I said from my perspective, this already expands to a very important point, which I can also make my own, namely that this yes to belonging,

[23:04]

auch ein Ja zur Zugehörigkeit zu alledem ist, was man so abschreiben möchte. Das Schlechte, der Zorn, der Hass, die Verbrechen, das sind nicht die anderen. Das sind auch wir. Zu dem gehören wir auch. Und wir sagen ja zu unserer Zugehörigkeit. Wir sagen nicht ja zum Verbrechen, aber wir sagen ja zu der Zugehörigkeit. Und das ist schon eine wichtige Erweiterung und Vertiefung dessen, was ich versucht habe zu sagen. Ist das klar? If you repeat. SPEAKER 1

[24:28]

Ich muss das jetzt versuchen zusammenzufassen. Zu der Alleinschließlichkeit gehört auch natürlich die Einschließlichkeit der Sexualität. Und unser Freund sagt hier, dass er gerne unsere Stellungnahme dazu hören würde, denn er hat den Eindruck, dass wir zwei Traditionen angehören, die die Sexualität ausschließen oder auszuschließen versuchen. Er hat das sehr schmerzlich in seiner eigenen christlichen Vergangenheit erfahren, dass das Sexuelle schlecht gemacht wird und eigentlich als der falsche Weg oder ein Weg, der nicht zum Ziel führt, dargestellt wird. Und so fragt er, ob wir uns hier auch wohlfühlen würden mit Gerda Beusen, die ich nicht kenne. Aber ich habe mich noch nie mit jemandem sehr unwohl gefühlt. This is one far-out monk.

[26:04]

So now you have to say something about Buddhism being exclusive of sexuality. It's accused of being exclusive of sexuality, probably because of its monastic tradition. It ain't. So I have to say, now you have to say something about Buddhism, because Buddhism is being accused here. die Sexualität auszuschließen, wahrscheinlich wegen der monastischen Tradition innerhalb des Buddhismus. Und er sagt, schließt sie nicht aus. Should I say something about this? Yeah. Näher hineinsprechen. What did he say? Closer to the microphone. Okay. Closer. Closer.

[27:40]

Okay. The early tradition of Buddhist monasticism in India and Southeast Asia emphasized celibacy. And on the whole, Chinese Buddhism changed. The emphasis wasn't the same, but probably the monastic tradition, for the most part, still emphasized celibacy. But the general feeling is that the decision to be celibate or not to be celibate is not a moral decision, but a decision of how you want to use your energy. And for several few centuries in Japan, Zen priests have been quite often, usually married.

[29:08]

But even before that, they often had a woman they lived with, but the stipulation was more against marriage than against sexuality. Because it was thought that all the social, cultural... Family responsibilities that go with marriage hinder the opportunity to practice. But again, in Asian and Buddhist cultures, you're living in a world more determined by what works than what's right or wrong in a moral sense. Now, an extreme case is a Korean monk called Crazy... I don't know what he's called. Korean monk. No, you don't know him. Who claims to have had sexual relations with... 600 men, women, and animals.

[30:43]

And he's not considered bad, he's just considered eccentric. Um... But when you practice meditation, and I think that Brother David might say that Catholic monastics know something about this territory, One of your energies that's most accessible is sexual energy. Like your breathing is one of your bodily functions that's accessible to you. It connects your inside and outside of your body. So it's hard, pretty difficult to relate to the consciousness of your liver, say, but it's easier to relate to the consciousness that you find through your breath.

[31:55]

And you can locate energy at the level of sexuality easier than you can locate energy that's more subtle. So many of the more developed or subtle inner practices or inner posture And are involved with using sexual energy to start certain kinds of experiences. And the point of all this is to get at the source of your energy where energy is first arising. And where thoughts are first arising, feelings are first arising. We could say seed mind, S-E-E-D.

[33:05]

Okay, so if you get to seed mind, that's before energy becomes sexual. If you get to the source of your feelings, At that level, it's not quite yet a feeling or a thought or an association. So you can't get there unless you have a fishing line to get there. So in a sense, when you have a feeling, good, bad or indifferent, it's a fishing line that draws you to wholeness. And if you have such a feeling, such a feeling, good, bad or neutral, then this is a fishing rod with which you can now make a connection with this wholeness and along which you can draw to this wholeness.

[34:16]

So we live in a world that's both the divided world and an undivided world. And in the divided world, each division leads to the undivided world. So whether it's sexuality or... both lead to the undivided world. You realize the undivided world through the divided. And then you begin to express the divided world through arising from the undivided world. I'm giving you this picture so that if you start to practice, you can actually have a sort of picture of what might happen, what's possible. So there's the practice of sexuality that leads to the undivided world. And there's a practice of the undivided world which leads into sexuality, which is one of the ways we express ourselves in the world.

[35:35]

And whether you want to have that sexuality with a partner, or you want that sexuality to become part of the way your bliss body arises, That's up to you. The one reason we understand in Buddhism that bliss and orgasm, orgasm is blissful, is it's very close to disappearing or the undivided world. You lose yourself. So emptiness is a way of losing yourself. So the physical experience of emptiness as it arises is bliss.

[36:44]

Okay. Thank you. In the monastic Christian monasticism, the celibate is not an expression of a rejection or a badmouthing of sexuality, but a form to destroy sexuality. to lighten, nicht wahr? Eine Form die Sexualität zu, die Energie, die sexuelle Energie zu leiten. Quite similar to what Bekir Hoshi has expressed, but you have to add that in certain Eastern forms, and I had a very valuable conversation about this with Master Mantak Chia, who probably many of you have heard of, and whose books we also have in the monastery and benefit from it.

[38:06]

Im Osten gibt es da eine Tradition und eine Methode mit dieser sexuellen Energie umzugehen, die bei uns in der westlichen Tradition im Kloster eigentlich nicht ist. Das ist nur so alles hit and miss, wie wir eben sagen. Wir machen halt das Beste draus. Aber... dazu muss man und wahrscheinlich hat das auch damit etwas zu tun dass in der christlichen tradition eine sehr unchristliche From a real Christian point of view, sexuality is good.

[39:13]

And to evaluate it as a whole, as positive, and in every respect as positive. The only thing that... dabei zu denken gibt, ist, dass es eben eine sehr starke Energie ist, eine Energie, die uns sehr leicht mitreißt und wegschwemmt und uns daher blind macht für Ausbeutung anderer, Unterdrückung anderer, Betrug anderer, Selbstbetrug, Das wissen wir. Darüber lässt sich gar nicht streiten. Das muss jeder zugeben. Und dort liegen die Gefahren. Das sind aber nicht ausdrücklich sexuelle Gefahren. Das sind nur Gefahren für unser Menschsein, die mit dem Sexuellen oft in Verbindung auftreten, weil eben dieser sexuelle Trieb so stark ist und uns so leicht wegschwemmt. Das muss man unterscheiden. Und das ist nicht häufig richtig unterschieden worden. And that also seems to be a reason why we have not taken this force into more explicit attack, more explicitly with our work.

[40:24]

But the work has been given to all of us, and so it is also given to each individual in our Christian monastery. It's just not so organized, it's not taken into attack so methodically. But anyway, one thing is very important. In the real Christian tradition, there is no rejection, there is no rejection, there is no exclusion of the sexual. We have, for example, in the Bible, the... Hohelied von Salomon, dass ja die Beziehung Gottes zu Menschen in rein sexueller Sprache feiert. Ein ganzes Buch, der Bibel. Wir haben den wesentlichen Begriff im Hebräischen des Erkennens, das auch immer wieder auf die Gotterkenntnis angewandt wird. Der Begriff ist dasselbe Wort für den Geschlechtsverkehr.

[41:27]

Die Gotteserkenntnis und der Geschlechtsverkehr haben nur ein einziges Wort in der Bibel. Man kann es nicht anders ausdrücken, weil eben, wie Becker-Roschi richtig sagt, diese Erfahrung und dieses Erlebnis des sexuellen Höhepunktes, uns zu verlassen, uns zu verlieren in dem großen Geheimnis, dem am besten entspricht. Es handelt sich hier um tiefe menschliche Einsichten, Erfahrungen und Wahrheiten, die sich nicht leugnen lassen und die also in jeder Tradition irgendwo aufscheinen müssen. Also auch in der christlichen Tradition da sind und aufscheinen. Aber ich gebe schon zu, die Kritik des Fragestellers war schon eine berechtigte Kritik, dass das normalerweise dem Christen nicht klar gemacht wird heute und nicht durchkommt. Und dass viele sogar an ihrem Christsein daran scheitern, dass ihnen

[42:33]

über das sexuelle Dinge gesagt werden, die einfach nicht stimmen und die einfach nicht tragbar sind. Und das muss sich ändern. Und ist im Begriff sich zu ändern. Applaus Applaus Applaus What? Sagen Sie einmal den Park, sagt sie. Peeps, die haben nur eine sehr beschränkte Regierungszeit. Applaus Applaus I think that why this question keeps coming up about sexuality and love, for me, people ask me about it, particularly in a Christian context. Is that there's an intuitive understanding in people that the future of the world and of our life is gonna be determined in the lay world. And the adept traditions are going to have a different role in the world of the future than they've had in the past.

[43:43]

Ivan Illich, who's a pretty well-known Catholic, said to me once, said that up until now, the Catholic Church has worked if the monastic tradition has worked. If the monastic tradition falls apart, the Catholic Church will fall apart. That's what he said to me once. Now, in Buddhism, the sense has been, oh yes, the whole society can practice meditation or Buddhism as they wish.

[44:46]

But the adept teachings need another kind of time than lay people have. And they're carried in lineages and communities that teach these adept traditions. Almost like there was a hose running through the centuries. And that hose was necessary, but it had sprinklers in each century. But now I think as it's happening that these adept traditions, and I think this conference is an example of it, are beginning to be lay traditions too.

[45:48]

A large percentage of the population now has the time and sophistication to practice the adept traditions. Now since the teachings have been developed to practice within Monastic, usually monastic communities, it's not so easy to figure out how to teach them even if you want to teach them. That's the challenge that I face and I think Brother David faces. And then lay people who are serious say to us, Can these traditions exist in our late life where we're married, we have sexual relationships and so forth?

[46:55]

And how do practices of love work in our society? And although I've thought about it and Brother David's thought about it, really, we all have to think about it. And if you commit yourself to these questions, there's some possibility we'll come up with a solution. worldwide lay community, that talks to each other, that makes possible a future that we couldn't have imagined. At least that's our hope. Thank you very much. Dazu gibt es dann auch noch eine ganz klare... That's the sound of two monks clapping.

[48:12]

Das ist der Klang von zwei klatschenden Mönchen. Dazu gibt es dann auch eine ganz spezifische christliche Parallele, die vielen von Ihnen bekannt sein wird, dass zum Beispiel das Buch Die Nachfolge Christi, das nach der Bibel bis vor kurzem das meist aufgelegte Buch in der Welt war, von Thomas Akempis, und das Leben von Millionen von Menschen geprägt hat, die sich um ein christliches Leben bemüht haben, ausdrücklich aus der monastischen Perspektive geschrieben ist und einfach ganz parallel sagt, ja, wenn man als Mönch leben könnte, das wäre das Beste, aber wenn man schon ein Laie sein muss, dann halt so... ...as much as possible. That's over today. But the lay people are now challenged to do this. It's a very big challenge in our time.

[49:16]

The Christian lay people now have a spirituality... Thank you. Thank you. Nur muss das dann auch wirklich so den Ausdruck finden, dass wir das auch leben und andere lehren. Und ich glaube auch mit Beke Roshi, dass ein solcher Kongress dazu beitragen kann, wo man darüber sprechen kann und wo man, ohne seine Tradition zu verlassen, aber von anderen Traditionen lernen kann und sehen, dass andere Traditionen ganz ähnliche Probleme haben. gemeinsam über die Versuche, diese Probleme zu überwinden, zu sprechen und so.

[50:20]

Das ist sehr wichtig für uns. Und wir tun es jetzt, hier. Es ereignet sich. Mit eurer Hilfe. . Die Frage ist, wo sehen wir beide die Ähnlichkeiten und die Verschiedenheiten von Buddhismus und von der buddhistischen oder christlichen Tradition und wo sehen wir vielleicht auch die Begegnungsmöglichkeiten?

[51:21]

Wir haben eben am Anfang gesagt, dass darüber schon sehr viel gesprochen wird und auch wir beide immer wieder darüber sprechen. So wollen wir das... We want to take this topic into action today, namely by showing it in practice. We want to face very specific challenges in our time, and that already shows where the similarities are. If someone has now paid attention, then they have certainly done so. Do you already see certain similarities that result from it and also certain differences in the approach? This is a good question. And I think everyone asks it in various ways, of course. But it's also a question that if you really want the answer, you have to do most of the work. You can't expect us to do the work.

[52:34]

You know, it is really unique in this century and in the recent decades that Christians and Buddhists and different kinds of Buddhists and Sufis sit down together in any context and try to find out what's going on. You may take it for granted that it happens. You see it in conferences and so forth. But in the world it's pretty nearly absolutely unique. And we don't know what's going on. But we like each other. So if you have a feeling for what we're doing, you can look carefully at us.

[53:47]

Probably his tradition, his energy and his body is organized a little different than mine. If you listen to our conversation and our voices, probably you can begin to see similarities and differences. Then if you're really interested, you have to try both of our practices. This is your work. Yeah, well this woman down here had her hand up. Chairman is fine. Why don't you stand up so they can hear in the back? Please. I wanted to say, when the first question came about sexuality, he said that Christianity is actually not anti-sexual.

[55:00]

But the problem I see is not whether it is right or wrong, or genuinely Christian, whether it is true or not, but that most of the Anglicans grow up in a contradiction. where a christianity that manifests itself as anti-sexual is being shown and a sexuality directed against it or as suspicious. I think most people, when they grow up, are already affected by this contradiction. And what I would wish for them, and this also applies to me, because I also know such contradictions in very practical ways in some communities, I have to repeat that now. Well, we'll both start trying to teach Christianity and Buddhism better.

[56:21]

To get back to the question of sexuality, especially in Christianity, the question is not so much what is really real Christian and what is not real Christian. The question is, how can so many people who... Do you have a question? I think, as I said, we'll both try to start teaching Christianity and Buddhism better. And there are techniques within Buddhism and Christianity for working with the problems once they're there in our adult life.

[57:33]

But let's also have some questions I would like not about sexuality because it absorbs so much energy. Only with one sentence would I feel responsible to answer that. And that would be that we others, we, that is, as you said, those who are already a bit ahead of us, And then a attitude towards sexuality, pre-life, not talking about it, that's not so important, but pre-life that is convincing. Because that is always much more convincing than talking about it. We should be ready to testify for it, we should think about it well enough that we can also talk about it. But above all, a very uncompromising attitude towards sexuality itself.

[58:36]

haben und das ist dann schon vielleicht ansteckend. Nein? Genügt nicht. Die Frage ist jetzt, wie kann man eine unverkrampfte Haltung zum Christentum haben, wenn man eine unverkrampfte Haltung zur Sexualität hat? Ja, ich hab's. Perhaps you can stand up and speak loudly. Many of us had a conflict during the Gulf War to continue our meditation practices or peace practices or to take concrete steps or to become active in global politics or in other concrete problems.

[59:38]

And there are two attitudes. One is an attitude that I am more aware of, and the other is a development that I am more aware of. And through that, I also learned a lot about Buddhism. And I believe that the problem of the future is that the two poles are completely different. I should briefly summarize. During the Gulf War, and why exactly at that time? Between one and the other. Während des Golfkrieges, weil da ganz starke Energien zum Ausbruch kamen, fanden viele Menschen es schwer, sich zu entscheiden zwischen der Meditation, die ganz nach innen geht, und dem Aktivismus, dem Protest, der ganz nach außen geht.

[60:46]

Und wir sollten Stellung nehmen zu dem Verhältnis dieser beiden. Applaus I can just say that I felt that in this recent Iraq war, that the real problem was that the language of the world includes war. So when the institutions, corporations, governments of the world speak with each other, they speak within the language of war. And the war is over, but they're still speaking in that language even louder in many ways. And I thought the peace movement was too late in this war.

[62:00]

They should have been seeing what was going on before the war started. The peace movement against the Vietnam War became quite sophisticated and spoke the language better than the government did. The unformed, you know, kind of grassroots peace movement in this war just didn't have time enough, of course it was so short, to really develop a language that really effectively objected to the war, I thought. There is no difference between your inner language and the language of the world. And you can't really sit with stability until you, the outer language of the world and the inner language of the world work together. So we need a language where peace, let's just say simply, where peace is the language, not war.

[63:16]

And you need that language inside yourself. And you study yourself. When you have your private thoughts, are you at war with other people? If each of us develops a language which includes others, is implicated with others in a peaceful way, many of us together can begin to create a language which changes the world. And it will become absolutely necessary for the world to start speaking that language. And I watched that happen with nuclear weapons. First governments were willing to consider nuclear war. But suddenly there was a shift and they said, it's not possible to have a nuclear war.

[64:42]

That was a language shift. And once it happened, the wall was going to come down. And I watched the ecology movement start in the 60s and participated in it. The word ecology didn't even exist in any general sense. But now everyone knows what's happening to the planet. The language has changed. Now the question is, what are we going to do about it? But it's amazing. One individual or a few people can change the world's language. If you become clearer and clearer in what you're speaking and how you speak to your friend, Your friend has friends.

[65:47]

And if the language is more complete, more whole, more convincing, it will change. And I think that's the job of every meditator. Every spiritual person. Because the language of meditation is the language of realizing wholeness. And if you can realize that you can bring it into your daily life and daily context. And if you fail, it's okay. Just keep trying. And if you haven't succeeded, that's okay too. Just keep going. Ich habe selber sehr unter dieser Ohnmacht gelitten während des Golfkriegs und weiß genau, wovon wir hier sprechen und habe dem also nichts hinzuzufügen.

[67:06]

Es ist ganz mir aus dem Herzen gesprochen. Ich würde nur sagen... Damit müssen wir jetzt anfangen, wir dürfen nicht auf den nächsten Krieg warten. Heute, jetzt müssen wir anfangen, Sprache des Friedens zu entwickeln. Die Mächte, die an Krieg interessiert sind und die gibt es, das müssen wir ganz fest ins Auge fassen, die haben auch gelernt. Unsere Regierung in den Vereinigten Staaten hat seit dem Vietnamkrieg sehr viel gelernt und von dem Protest sehr viel gelernt. Ich weiß nicht, ob man das hier verfolgen konnte durch die Medien, aber es ist so ungeheuer raffiniert vorgegangen während dieser Zeit, dass man einfach total entwaffnet war. Man konnte es nicht glauben. Es war kein Ansatzpunkt. Das Ganze war so glatt, es war so vorbereitet, dass...

[68:10]

Wir uns jetzt schon vorbereiten müssen auf das nächste Mal, wenn so etwas geschieht. Und ich messe das ganz neu von der Sprache, ich habe das noch nie vorher gehört. Aber das scheint mir schon ein ganz wichtiger Ansatzpunkt. Und ich würde nur hinzufügen, jetzt, heute müssen wir damit beginnen. The title of this conference is The Power of Vision. And I would say that the power of vision is the language of vision. And just having a vision isn't enough. You have to find a language for it, which isn't easy. And you have to share that vision through the language. And if we do that, we have a chance. We will see how much time we still have.

[69:18]

This trick was practically, as you said, funny. There is one vision of the future against... I have to repeat that. The Gulf War was already planned for a very long time, as we all know now. We have it dramatically. karma [...]

[70:31]

Es ist nicht die und wir, wir gehören alle zusammen. Beide Visionen sind in uns selbst. Wir müssen die eine durch die andere in uns selbst besiegen, wie du gesagt hast. Aber es ist schon richtig und wichtig zu betonen, dass es hier nicht nur die eine Vision gibt, die sich halt nur langsam durchsetzt, sondern es gibt eine Gegenvision, die ungeheure Kraft hat for which we stand up. Difficult. Wolfi? Yes.

[71:32]

Die Erwägungen über den Golfkrieg führen uns jetzt wieder zurück zur Sexualität, denn es geht darum, wie wir die Energien dieser Welt und unsere eigenen Energien verwenden, in einer friedlichen Weise oder eben in einer aggressiven Weise. Und wenn ich das richtig verstanden habe, ist eben unser Umgehen mit der Sexualität ein Feld, in dem wir lernen können und müssen, dringend müssen, friedlich mit dieser Energie umzugehen und sie auf friedliche Wege, ihr friedliche Wege zu bahnen. Das ist eine wichtige Einsicht. Ich wiederhole es ja nur für den Teeb. Ihr habt selber gehört. Yes?

[73:27]

I'm sorry? Thank you. The question is, it is about the relationship between the monastery and the lay culture within the religious traditions. And the question is whether there is also the danger of losing the mystery, the secret, by making it too public. Wir brauchen immer diesen Raum der Stille. Ich glaube, dass... Ich habe zuerst gesagt, und dahinter stehe ich schon, dass die Laien in der Kirche endlich einsehen müssen, wir sind die Kirche, und so handeln.

[74:37]

Aber das heißt nicht, dass wir nicht Klöster... brauchen werden und vielleicht mehr und dringender als in der Vergangenheit. Und da kristallisiert sich zumindest in den Vereinigten Staaten, aber ich weiß, dass es auch in Deutschland existiert und sicher in anderen Teilen der Welt, etwas sehr Gutes heraus, nämlich, dass mehr und mehr Laien eine Zeit in diesem größtentlichen in this monastery ambiance, in this monastery silence, that when the monasteries are no longer so closed and so closed for the lay people as they were often, not always, but often, but that now the monasteries are far and wide open and that every lay person who really strives for it, eine Zeit im Kloster, denn das Mönchische, das in uns allen ist, auch verwirklichen kann.

[75:38]

Yes, the people also opened themselves to it. And once you open yourself to it, even as a layperson, you don't necessarily need the monastery anymore. It can be very helpful, but you can find the monastery within yourself and you can create this monastery atmosphere for yourself somewhere, either at home or in a park or somewhere else, in a museum or somewhere else where you can go. I would say that what you point, as I understand what you said, what you point out is exactly right. Or at least there's a danger in trying to find out how these adept and monastic traditions can also exist for lay people. And our job as teachers is to develop the skills of this while not losing our initiate tradition. And I think it's possible because I love lay people as much as monks.

[77:00]

And also, silence isn't just in silence. There's a lot of sounds here. There are always sounds. The leaves even. But even in those sounds, can you also hear the silence? Listen with your third ear. Silence is right here. Ich glaube, wir haben vielleicht noch Zeit für eine Frage.

[78:01]

Was sollen wir jetzt da machen? Silence. [...] Yes. Good. That is justified. That is a follow-up question that we really still have to answer in this context. The question is, how do you do that? How do you develop a new language? Isn't that right? We still have to ask that somehow. Please? Yes, yes, yes. Thank you.

[79:06]

Thank you. I've been there. Thank you. I don't understand, please.

[80:24]

Mike B. Yeah. Let's just, can I suggest? Pekaroshi suggested, oh, Dutch. Pekaroshi suggested, let's listen to a few more questions and then we'll answer them in silence. Thank you. Und ich möchte noch hinweisen, weil die meisten von Ihnen das sicher nicht sehen können, da sitzt ein kleiner Hund hier in der ersten Reihe.

[81:30]

Und der verwirklicht alles, worum wir uns bemühen. Natürlich müssen wir uns als Menschen... Es ist anders aufgegeben. Aber wenn wir als Menschen so das Menschsein verwirklichen könnten, wie dieser kleine Hund das Hundsein verwirklicht, wäre alles erlebt. Applaus Okay, let's have the silence. Five people can still ask questions. One after the other, and then we have silence. Not too long. Okay. Is it possible to have the mic then so that we don't have to repeat?

[82:44]

Just let them ask. If those who want to ask questions come right to the mic, then we don't have to repeat it. Everyone who wants to ask a question, one question after the other, please come to the microphone. What I'm still interested in with you is how you work on the subject of projection. So, it's the case that actually every person has a language. And actually, if people weren't afraid of each other or wouldn't shy away from each other, then immediately an incredibly great and exciting language would develop. And my question would be, how do you work on the subject of projection in your religions? It is created in every system, that you bind to each other.

[83:46]

And that is a question that I have. If I were to ask someone, what is spiritual, then I would be in disbelief. And I would like to ask you to tell me that. What is spiritual? Angesichts der Fragen zum Golfkrieg kam mir der Gedanke, wie wollen wir Frieden schaffen, wenn wir ein Volk, was ganz stark an diesem Golfkrieg beteiligt ist, nämlich die Juden, hier in unserem Festival überhaupt nicht dabei vertreten haben, haben die keine Kraft der Visionen? So now we'll have silence for a few moments.

[84:49]

And this silence is also a feeling. It's not just the absence of sound. It's a feeling you can carry with you in your Schatzkiste. And it is the kind of small change that might help you in a phone booth. And it's been really wonderful and beautiful to be here with you. And to be here with my wonderful friend, Brother David. Wir sollten vielleicht noch ganz herzlich auch unserer Übersetzerin und den Technikern allen danken.

[88:01]

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