For me, the interesting point there is the difference between awareness and mindfulness. Awareness, for me, is receiving, being open, but receiving. and mindfulness is directed outward from myself. And in our usual speaking we use awareness rarely, rarely, but also mindfulness, but in English this is much clearer, clearer, the difference between awareness and mindfulness. To come back to this question of attention,

[01:08]

Mindfulness is like a focus directed on something. Being aware is more than receiving. Being aware of... It has not much to do with making something. It's having become open to whatever is to be received. For me, I found a practice and a ritual. And when other people ask me what can I do if I lose myself in conflicts with other people, I have a rule.

[02:22]

First is... I feel physically where you sit or stand. Sit with your bottom on your cushion or feel the contact on the floor. I freely recognize where my physical presence is. If this is totally clear to me, then I notice by breathing I notice my breathing without losing my sense of physical posture. At first it goes back and forth. Sometimes I'm in the breath and sometimes I'm in the posture. Then it comes together and both is present. When this happened, only when this happened, I'm able to focus with sense organs.

[03:31]

So these three things happen at the same time. And answer to the question how this is possible, to be there at the same time, not lose yourself, and in spite of that notice the other person, perceive the other person. But this practice really needs to be practiced. Because of that, I really understand this as a practice. Although I don't really feel it present in that moment, I just do it as a practice. For example, There is the feeling like you can lose yourself in doing things, like I'm working in a hospital, and it has to be done fast.

[04:53]

I'm not allowed to be slow. Awareness comes in when I notice what happens. I'm running. I almost don't feel myself. It happens so fast. It's like losing yourself. And awareness is noticing What am I doing? And the practice comes in that we have to just put some instruments somewhere. And what I try, consciously, I don't care about everything else, I just take that, and look at it and it's not so easy because thinking is already with the next thing to do in the beginning this was extremely difficult and I thought in my job it's really impossible to practice awareness or mindfulness in my job but now I think it's possible it's like taking the moment out of the context

[06:14]

only what I'm just present with is one thing and do like this and that's my practice and my feeling is the process is starting from this point even if it's incomplete I have trust in doing this now yeah So that's what came up to me, first feeling me and then acting. I wouldn't be able to do that. I understand what you do, what you mean. I want to add, practice is only a word. It means to do something. Doing is also being there. It's not only the practice I found out for myself.

[07:24]

It works only like this. I didn't add before that only in this way an encounter is possible. And I count them in the sense of real presence. I don't expect for myself to have this all day long. There are many hours where I don't do this. I'm curious to ask both of you, Is there intention present when this occurs or is it something that happens outside of your will or your intention or focus?

[08:27]

For me, the intention is there. When I see this practice, I enter it with an intention from the experience that I myself see how I get lost if I change with my attention to the other person. And I had to find out how could this function, how could this really work. But it also happens without intention.

[09:54]

experience and event happen I think it's this is because I really for some time I did this with intention when I listened to both of you it brings me back to Roshi's subject for us because many extraordinary things can happen in our life. But our ability to participate with them, not necessarily to control or make something happen, but have a relationship with our experience that we can grow and learn from and share with other people. is for me in some sense craft, Roshi was talking about.

[11:26]

The kitchen is calling. For many years in my practice it was extremely boring. I was lucky because at the beginning of my practice I had some experiences. And it allowed me to have confidence. And I didn't worry so much that nothing happened after that for such a long time. I once had an experience And I was very excited about the experience.

[12:39]

I was a new student at Tassajara, and I went and caught Suzuki Roshi in his garden. And I just about grabbed him. And I told him what happened. And he was very happy. He said, that's very good. And we had a period of zazen before lunch. I think I told this at Johanneshof when I told, yes. I think I told you this story before. So excuse me, because I'll share it with other people. So I had this, I had a big, you know, that's what Zen's about, this big experience. And during this period of zazen, Suzuki Roshi often he'd walk through the zendo and he'd correct your back or rest your shoulders.

[13:54]

And he came. He came next to me. And he started to tell me what zazen instruction was. When we sit zazen, we cross our legs. And we put our hands together like this. Just like I walked in off the street. no big experience one hour before and I started to laugh and he started to laugh So for me it's not about the big experience. It's about the craft in spite of the disappointment or the big experience. So that's kind of what I meant about beginning again.

[14:57]

In spite of what we want or don't want to attract to repelled from. So thank you both for your... It's time. And what time is the performance tonight? At what time? At 8.30. Good. Let's sit for just a couple of minutes.

[16:04]

Good morning. Good morning. I'm appreciating very much the feeling in the room this morning. I think about feeling around the room rather than using my thinking around the room. So this kind of thinking, thinking with our feeling, happens out of a kind of trust.

[22:22]

Trust in what we're experiencing. And willingness to have the experience be ours. When I first began practice, trusting my experience was very foreign to me. The situation I grew up in as a child, And maybe many of you have to a degree a similar experience. The situation was very much what I was expected to do and who I was expected to be and how I was expected to develop myself. Die war sehr geprägt davon, was von mir erwartet wurde, was erwartet wurde, wie ich sein sollte und was erwartet wurde von mir, wie ich mich entwickeln sollte.

[23:39]

So nobody ever checked in with me about what I felt, what I thought, what I experienced. And I remember once as a four-year-old child in my little corduroy overalls being very confused because of the difference between what I was experiencing and what I was being told. So when I began to sit zazen, and in particular with Suzuki Roshi, there was a regard for and an interest in exploring what my actual experience was.

[24:56]

So for me attitudes have been very important in opening my practice. And I'd like to continue what Baker Roshi has develop these past couple of days with us? By beginning to explore attitudes that can get conceivably in the way of an experience of bodyful awareness or awareness of emotion or feeling So for me, practice is understanding my life in terms of what I can practice with.

[26:03]

When I step through that doorway and come in this room, I'm not expected to believe certain specific things that sign up and I do the Buddhist Boy Scout oath, I believe this and this and this. But what I am encouraged to do and I encourage you also to consider this, is to begin to work with your experience, not in terms of ideas or, as Baker Rishi said, theories, but a dynamic we can explore and develop.

[27:35]

Thinking is a very powerful tool. Without it, I couldn't have gotten to Rostenberg. I never would have gotten through. There was a big person who came up to me at customs. I never would have gotten through customs if I couldn't think. I actually didn't know if it was a joke. Eric sent this. He didn't have a uniform. He was dressed all in black. And had a shaven head.

[28:42]

And looked like a weightlifter. And said to me, where is your passport? And I looked at him and I said, who are you? So he took out some identification papers. Anyway, I'm glad I can think. But I also hope to have wider margins on my life than just my thinking. I have a image of thinking, how I draw a picture of thinking in my bigger mind.

[29:47]

And it's a sphere or amoeba-like shape that moves. amoeba, which because of its volume and its constancy, I tend to identify with it. So, from the perspective of getting through customs, my experience of mind is thinking. of mind is just thinking. When I'm sitting here before Michael rings the bell, this shape

[30:51]

is a very small part of something much larger. So there's a problem. Because in talking this way, our thinking mind collapses around this image of a larger mind. So this is what I mean by trying to feel around, not just think around. to begin to have a sense of that wider experience of ourselves.

[32:14]

So the mindfulness that Roshi has been talking with us about is rooted in particulars. And we experience these particulars very often, particularly for me. through these structures or identities, like the ones I mentioned from when I was a child. And I don't mean to imply that they're not They're either good or bad.

[33:20]

But that there are possible ways to expand beyond the limitation they set for us. And so beginning to work with these attitudes I remember one in particular. Baker Roshi said to me, that's a teaching. And as with him I explored, What he really meant, I saw by looking at these attitudes. I had a different access to the kinds of teachings that he presents to us. So maybe some of you never heard of the four foundations of mindfulness before two days ago.

[34:42]

And maybe now for you there's some aliveness to what may have seemingly been a teaching, a pedagogical list. So for me, I discovered through working with these different attitudes, Something which seemed inapproachable to me. Some what are called perfections in Buddhism, perfections of which Bekaroshi mentioned. Perfection of openness.

[35:50]

Receptivity. Patience. And energy. Kashanti. Kashanti. and virya, so awakeness. And there are two others which he didn't discuss, which are concentration and wisdom. So these are traditionally in Buddhism called the perfections. And they're ascribed to some supernal beings, bodhisattvas, some enlightenment beings. And I don't feel much like a supernal being. And I don't feel like a supernumerary, a cosmic being.

[37:05]

But through beginning to develop and explore these qualities, I can practice with something that before seemed like either an old dry list or something completely unattainable that had no relationship to my life. So this is a dusty, dry background for beginning to talk to you about these attitudes. So I'd like to tell you a story that has been very important to me in my practice. There was a monk named Hakuin who became a very famous Rinzai teacher. in living in the sea coast of Japan in the 17th century.

[38:38]

And it was a time when he was, we don't know if this is a true story, but it's a good story, so we'll treat it as true. He was living on the outskirts of a small fishing village. And he was greatly respected by all the villagers. And as was the custom, they would come and bring him food. And help take care of his physical needs. And in this village there was a very attractive young woman who her parents discovered was with child. Pregnant.

[39:45]

And when they confronted her and said, who... And she said, it was Hakuin. And the parents were completely outraged. And they stormed out to his... And confronted him with this. And he said to them, is that so? Well, the girl carried the child to turn and bore the child. And by this time, no one in the village would have anything to do with Hakuin. And the family took the child to Hakuin and said, this is your baby, you take care of it.

[40:47]

And since the village had stopped taking care of his needs, he had wisely developed a small garden, And he would take some of the vegetables to market to sell to buy milk for the baby. Well, it's said after about six months, the girl was very remorseful. And told her parents that actually it was a young handsome man in the fish market. And the family was mortified.

[41:54]

And the family was mortified. And the whole village felt that same way. And they went en masse to his hut. And they said, we'd like to take the child back and please forgive us. We're so sorry for what we did. And Hakuin looked at them and he said, oh, is that so? And Hakuin looked at them and he said, oh, is that so? So maybe a little bit of that feeling in one of your sitting periods these past few days. When you're not so burdened with what we think we are, who we think we're supposed to be.

[43:10]

And somebody would come to you and they'd shake you in your zazen. Maybe you could imagine saying, oh, is that so? So this is a kind of openness, attitude of openness. That's been very helpful to me. But one of the slippery qualities to these attitudes And for me they're a kind of internal posture. A physical posture that I can experience in an interiority, an internalized experience.

[44:18]

And I can explore and develop that posture. Like this physical posture. genauso wie die körperliche Haltung. Die Schwierigkeit und was sie so unfassbar macht, dass wir die Identifikationen und Vorstellungen durch diese Einstellungen ersetzen. And why I believe the six perfections start with openness is to help us with this slippery quality. Because we also need to be open to not being open. This feeling of openness I also feel is the basis of zazen practice.

[45:30]

Taking your seat and sitting in an upright and yet easeful posture, being open to our breathing, our body sensation, the thoughts that sweep through our mind, Not trying to accumulate or push away. But being trustful of what comes up. Being trustful of our practices here.

[46:33]

So this story also has qualities that relate to the second so-called perfection. Of receptivity. And I'm inferring about Hakuen. I'm believing what he may have thought without inferring imply. Because I wasn't there and don't know. So I can say these things about him. And he can be a good example for this morning's talk. But I think in being able to look at the feelings, as Roshi talked about, and emotions... There's a stable place that recognizes the distinction of the pleasure or the not pleasurable.

[48:04]

But it's not caught by it. So Giorgio's feeling of letting it go, not pushing it away, not grabbing a hold of it. But finding our stability, our uprightness in the middle. is again this internal posture, this internal attitude. And for me it's a way I take care of myself. If I look at these perfections and I look at my life, there's a big difference. However, if I'm not caught by the attitude of who I am,

[49:29]

And willing to locate myself in the posture of the attitude. I can recognize my likes and dislikes. But I'm not necessarily overburdened by them. So for me in this posture, is finding that upright place. One of my friends at Tassajara drove Suzuki Roshi from San Francisco to the monastery.

[51:00]

And he was a very strict vegetarian. He was a macrobiotic. For a long time, maybe eight years. And he told Suzuki Roshi with some pride how good he'd been in following that diet. And not long after, Suzuki Roshi said, you know, I'm hungry. I want to stop and get some lunch. And they pulled over to a roadside stand. Like an old-fashioned McDonald's. Which basically had hamburgers and french fries and shakes and Coca-Cola.

[52:12]

And Suzuki Roshi said, let's get two hamburgers. And my friend thought, well, if I'm going to have to eat a hamburger, at least Suzuki Roshi is going to eat a hamburger with me. And so when they came, Suzuki Roshi looked at the hamburger and said, this is too much food for me. So he opened the bun and took the patty and put it on my friend's patty and had a bun and lettuce for lunch. It wasn't funny for my friend. And he got a little bit sick actually. And we can think many things about what this meant.

[53:43]

But for me, it's that same sense of Hakuin not holding who he is in a way that's independent of the particulars. independent of the particular situation. So understanding practice in terms of what we can practice within our life. There's another agenda aside from understanding or having good practice, being a good vegetarian. And this is actually the third paramita, the third perfection, which is patience.

[54:47]

Or what Suzuki Roshi would call no gaining idea. It's very hard to sit for a long time and not expect something. having a deep confidence in our life, and not knowing what will happen. Not such an easy thing. But if we step back for a minute, and we hang out with our thinking mind that helps us through customs, What our thinking mind would want us to attain is much smaller than what's possible. I have another story An old Chinese story from 12th, 13th century.

[56:26]

A man lived in a remote village in the mountains. And there was a stream which went through it, which was the main source of their food. And so it was the practice of the men in the village to fish. And one day this man decided, rather than using a curved hook, he'd fish with a straight hook. And people looked at him and said, what could you ever expect to catch with a straight hook? And he said, I know with a curved hook. I could catch an ordinary fish, but maybe I can catch an extraordinary fish with a straight hook.

[57:51]

And for 30 years, he continued to fish with a straight hook. And the word of this person, fishing with the straight hook, traveled throughout China. Even to the court of the emperor. And the emperor was very intrigued about this person, 30 years fishing with this straight hook. So he summoned an entourage, a group of, a caravan, Also hat er eine Karawane zusammengestellt, eine Volksschaft, die ihn zu diesem Dorf begleiten sollte, um dort festzustellen, ob das wirklich wahr ist.

[59:06]

And as the story goes, sure enough, when he arrives, the man is fishing with a straight hook. Und wie die Geschichte geht, ist es natürlich genauso, dass als er ankommt, dieser Mann dort mit seinem geraden Haken Fische fangen möchte. And the emperor came up to him and said, What could you ever hope to catch with a straight hook? And by now this old wizened man looked up and said, I hope to catch you, dear emperor. So the no-gaining idea for me in Zazen is a little bit like coming and putting my straight hook into this pond with all of you. Das ist irgendwie so, wie hierher zu kommen und meinen geraden Haken in den Teich hineinzugeben, wo auch ihr alle drinnen seid.

[60:21]

Also vielleicht werde ich etwas Langeweile fischen. Vielleicht eine besondere Erfahrung. Vielleicht fange ich mich selbst. Ich weiß es nicht. So in this practice there's the feeling of continuing to show up. Beginning again. Falling down seven times and getting up eight times. Patiently. So this is some way I can begin to explore and discover what the third parameter is. And the fourth parameter, which is the tenor G, energy, it's a very subtle thing. It's a subtle thing.

[61:21]

Often we identify energy with some big movement, some certain kind of strength. There was so much energy in the music last night. And there's so much energy in a leaf. And there's so much strength in the place where the wing of the butterfly comes to be attached to its body. So it's not having a certain kind of filter for the energy we like or what we want. But it's finding the energy in that posture in our life. And watching it as it changes.

[62:58]

And again, each of these I can experience in my sitting. I can explore what is the energy in my body now. What is the feeling of jet lag three days later? Am I pushing that feeling away? Am I saying, oh, is that so? And is that changing? There was a British economist named E.F.

[64:04]

Schumacher. Da gibt es einen britischen Ökonomen namens E.F. Schumacher. Schumacher. Schumacher. And he wrote a book called Small is Beautiful. I don't know if you know this. Ein Buch geschrieben, kein, ist schön. Ich weiß nicht, ob ihr das Buch kennt. So he was very, in the 1970s, very important in America. Österreicher. Österreicher. He's Austrian. Thank you very much. Also das ist ein Österreicher. And he did a lot of work in... He did a lot of work in third world countries. And he actually was a friend of Baker Roshi's. And Baker Roshi brought him to Zen Center many times. So I got to meet him and something he told us stayed with me.

[65:06]

It was about a man who was fired in India from a construction company that he worked for. And he was given two weeks' notice before he had to leave his job. And so the first night as he was leaving the construction site, he had a wheelbarrow filled with straw. and the security guard at the gate was very curious about why he was taking this wheelbarrow full of straw.

[66:09]

And he searched the straw very carefully to see if the man was trying to steal something. He couldn't find anything. The next day, same man, a wheelbarrow, piled very high with straw. The security guard, very curious now. trying to see what's in the straw. But he couldn't find anything, so he let him go. Third day he had a dog to sniff to see if there was some substance in the straw. Couldn't find anything. Let him go. So for two weeks this happened. Shortly thereafter, they met in a tea shop.

[67:25]

And the security guard said to him, We're not working. You're not working there anymore. Tell me, what were you stealing in the straw? He said, I wasn't stealing anything in the straw. I was stealing wheelbarrows. So the problem with all this, it sounds like there's something you should do. And so my talking, so long, gives the sense that there's, you should practice this, or you should try this, or there's some attitude, or what I call internal posture that can be helpful.

[68:29]

But that's looking at the straw. That's our thinking mind. So often you may hear Baker Roshi in the middle of his lecture contradict himself. And it's because of what I said at the beginning of this talk, actually. That all this is created for you to trust and explore your own experience. And maybe we can have some fun together in the process. Thank you very much.

[69:49]

Maybe if we could sit for a couple of minutes. And maybe at the beginning of the discussion we could get reports from the small group.

[72:50]

Maybe we can have some discussion about the schedule for the rest of the day. And could you... Ja, also einfach, dass wir erfahren, was eure Wünsche und Bedürfnisse sind, wann ihr wegfahren müsst oder möchtet, so dass wir dann einfach den Zeitplan danach ausrichten. Was sind die Optionen? Die Optionen sind, ja, also es gibt jetzt diese Vormittagssitzung, wir können am Nachmittag noch weitermachen, jetzt im Sinne einer Belehrung oder eines Austauschs. Und üblicherweise ist es so, dass das Seminar um vier aufhört.

[74:00]

Es geht einfach darum, was die Leute wollen. Or alternatively, you can also have lunch in the back and do more on the day before and nothing more on the day after. That's interesting, that's the main thing. Yes, that's right. Yes, that's what I was going to say. Go away for lunch. Go away for lunch. So the need is, some people have to leave at lunchtime, so the need is to postpone lunch a little bit and then end the seminar. Can we stop at two? If we stop at two, can the others keep up with the hunger? Yes. So, what does that mean?

[75:09]

Until 2 o'clock. A wish? What is your wish, Margit? Oh, back there was a wish. One. No, I think half past two is good, right? And I mean, we will certainly be there a little longer and maybe who can stay there and wants to, we can just sit together a little bit. So we end at half past one. And we just be around here. And if people want to stay on, we can spend some time together still.

[76:13]

Good. I have a wish. We have a list of participants, which is partly incomplete. There are people from whom we only have the name. And I would like to let that pass and that everyone also checks whether his address is correct. For people who are really interested in taking part in, for example, sitting days in Vienna or something like that, it would be interesting if they had an e-mail address. The telephone is also possible, but... Yes, exactly. You don't need to write much. Most people are already up there. And... I don't know if that's pleasant to the participants. If that's... Okay, then I'll just send it on the trip. So let's begin with some reports from the small groups.

[77:54]

Vielleicht fange ich an. Ich spreche sehr viel und deswegen ist für mich auch das Sprechen was Interessantes im Verhältnis zur Praxis. Und das war ein Punkt, der in unserer Gruppe auch gekommen ist. And what does mindfulness mean in relation to speaking? And what is important for me and what I would also like to include here is this feeling, which Paul said this morning, feeling what is in the room. or feeling what is in yourself, what is simply there, and then the speaking that then somehow comes out of this feeling and what this feeling somehow disguises or what you then try to speak from this feeling.

[79:11]

sich auch immer irgendwie diese Differenz da gewahr ist, die besteht zwischen dem Fühlen und den Worten, die man dann findet. Das ist auch ein Weg, wie man irgendwie die Achtsamkeit, wie die Achtsamkeit einfach da ist, weil man ja so viel spricht. Und da gibt es ja viele Wege, wie man das bemerken kann, was da passiert beim Sprechen, dass man das Gefühl verliert und einfach nur mehr redet. Das ist dann Oder dass man, ja, also jeder kann dann seine eigenen Ideen haben, wie das geht, aber das ist für mich einfach auch eine wichtige Erfahrung, was Achtsamkeit betrifft. So I talked about what we also had in our group was talking about mindfulness and talking so that there is somehow for me there is a feeling also like you talked in the morning the feel out the room or the feeling which just is there and then you talk and how do you talk?

[80:23]

And talking is like putting clothing around this feeling. You try out which words you can use to let this feeling talk somehow. So this is also an entrance for mindfulness practice for me, to have this feeling and somehow find words, and to notice the gap between feeling and what kind of words come up. And sometimes you notice you just talk and feeling is lost. So there's also this craft of noticing mindfulness in that for me. There is also something like a craft for me in it, that you just observe what happens in the speaking, whether you are really in that feeling or whether the words come from somewhere at all, whether you get lost in the speech.

[81:27]

Also what came up in our group when we talked about speaking, it was... Some thought that this feeling is something much bigger, vaster and not defined. At that moment where it is turned into words, and then it is somehow enclosed or caged, it turns into something firm. And in this place, before it comes up, and then when it's spoken, it really can turn and change into something firm.

[82:33]

And the other way around also, like Margit said, it's possible the feeling comes up in your body so strongly. It really can be something, a liberating experience. If the emotion comes very unmediated in your world, this can be really a liberating experience. So there are different possibilities or levels of this. That's what we found out in our discussions. I want to add the important force that the word really comes out of the physicality of the body.

[83:47]

For me it was this coming, really being upright. Empörung. And? And the word which came up was? No. Empörung, kann mir da jemand helfen? This is a... It's a word which comes up when you're somehow angry. Outrage, outraging. She felt this coming up and making her upright, and the word which came was outrageous. It's not really... It is. Okay. Outrage, yeah. In German it's somehow closer, this lifting yourself up, upright and up, something coming up which is a little bit angry or quite angry.

[84:57]

This is another group. In context of that, for me, it was clear to see that there is a difference talking out of my emotionality or about my emotions. And for both ways of talking, I want to have the feeling that there is space for that. Because in the sense of this outrageous, being outrageous, something happens there. So there's a difference between somehow being in a net of this emotion.

[87:15]

And the other thing is being not engaged by this. I'm caught by this, not surprising it, but like Roshi said, that on a certain level it's really important to notice what it is. Is there a physical way that you notice, like I felt?

[88:16]

Yes, this question comes to me. I would think yes. For me it clearly is yes, because when she described it, it came out of the body. It comes without being reflected. And also possibly the word comes up in which this being outrageous can be washed so that I'm not identified with it. I don't identify with it.

[89:18]

I just notice it, perceive it. But I want to perceive that both ways are possible. I don't want to ban or value one of them. Because again and again I experience with myself and without myself that In any case, if there is a movement out of the body and an emotion is nothing else than a movement, this release, if you suppress it, it's not very good.

[90:22]

Something bad comes out of that. If I suppress out of some kind of teaching that I have to be friendlier. Which does not mean that you just have to come out with your emotions all the time. So I just want to see everything can be just observed. For me in my life, this really is a problem. How do we know when an emotion, which I feel very strongly, when I suppress it, if I only observe it,

[91:33]

At this point, sometimes I don't know where suppressing starts. You don't know where the suppressing starts? I'm not sure I understand. If I go along with the center, I observe the emotion just there. How far do you go? And when do you start to suppress it? It's not easy to see the difference. I'm insecure about that. I'm not sure that I completely understand.

[92:49]

But the feeling that I'm getting is to separate the experiencing of it and being at the effect of it. So are you saying when the suppressing is suppressing the experience? Or the effect? The effect.

[93:23]

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