I don't remember wanting to say something. Okay. Yes, Gaurav. In our group yesterday we spoke about many of the things that we have discussed here in this big group as well. But we also talked a lot about the moments when our self dissolves or disappears so that it's not there anymore, like for example in singing. When those many selves turn into a kind of sound self that has no own existence anymore, that has nothing individual anymore.

[01:05]

My experience in Japan when going begging with the monks, when my self shrunk within minutes to a normal size. Oh, before that it had been an abnormal size? But you're so tall and thin, how can you have a self that's a normal size? And the third thing I would like to mention is this idea of completing a situation. We agreed in our group that seems to have an effect on the self that approaches a sense of dissolving.

[02:23]

Everything is done. And for a moment there is nothing else to do. And that also has an effect on my actions of the past. So in other words, doing things in the present that are complete seems to have an effect on dissolving actions of the past. It's absolutely true. And that has a great effect on the self, the idea of self, and the experience of self, and the sense that it becomes extremely permeable and not really own existence anymore.

[03:45]

Yeah, that's good. The more you complete each thing in the present, And you have that feeling of completing each thing one at a time in the present. Tsukiroshi used to say, do one thing at a time. But he also sometimes said, I don't think you really understand what I mean by that. Aber er hat hin und wieder auch gesagt, ich glaube nicht, dass ihr wirklich versteht, was ich damit meine. And one of the things he meant was not to do one thing before you do the next thing. It's not a question of successional time.

[04:59]

It's not happening in successional time. It's the one thing is time. And there's no other time. And so you completely do that one thing before the next thing even appears. Maybe I'll come back to that. Okay, Christian. Is that what your shirt says, same, same? They're trying to complicate things. The word identity literally means same, same. I mean, it's the same time after time is identity. So the etymology of identity is the same thing.

[06:00]

Excuse me for interrupting. But your shirt interrupted me. I had the idea of self as an illusion and now you have said that the sharing of self does not cause any problem or that you can keep it or deny it. And then I asked myself if that means that I keep a part of the illusion that does not cause any problem. I had this idea of a self as an illusion. And now you said that there are aspects of self that are not a problem.

[07:01]

So I'm wondering if that means that I'm keeping parts of the illusion that are not a problem. Well, thinking that self is a fabrication, if not an illusion, A construct. I use the word fabrication because fabrication in English can be a synonym for an illusion. Just a fabrication. But it also means a construction. So if you think of self, understand self as an illusion or a construction, you lessen the deleterious negative effects of self.

[08:03]

But what I'm trying to sort out today is that we call or think of a lot of things as self which aren't. And I would say it's simply, and most simply, it's because we function through the idea of self and not through the experience of self. Okay, Ulrike? I, uh, I, uh, I'm wondering if the word self, and of course this is German now, but if the word actually describes our experience of the self. In other words, you pointed to that when you said before, does the word cover the territory of the experience?

[09:37]

I'm noticing throughout the seminar that that's actually a bit difficult for me, that the word, I find it slightly disturbing and it's a little agitating for me. Is it possible to say that it is something like the instance that directs attention, shares, And I'm wondering if maybe we could speak about a kind of attentional agency or something that administrates and distributes, chooses where attention goes. That's good, yeah. Yeah, that would be good. Yeah, we, in English at least, use self, the word self, to describe a lot of experiences which aren't in the Buddhist term what they mean by self as a problem.

[10:55]

In English it is also the case that we use the word itself for many experiences that in the Buddhist sense do not really have to do with the self as a problem. Okay. Somebody else? Yes, Dagmar. Jürgen and I talked about this question this morning, whether these two different types of self, the continuous self and the non-continuous self, whether this non-continuous self exists at all, whether it exists at all. So we came to this form of being and being is form. Yerke and I discussed this morning, since we talked about the continuous self and then also about discontinuity, whether the discontinuous self, whether that's actually something that exists.

[11:59]

Yeah. Well, there's nothing that exists. Everything is in a process of existence, but nothing exists. So you can't say the discontinuous self exists, but you can say the discontinuous self is a process of selfing. As there's no entities called trees, there's only treeing. So there's boiming and there's selfing. And there's non-selfing. Yes. Yes. I saw a young girl yesterday at the traffic lights and she was waiting for the light to turn green.

[13:35]

And she was counting. She counted one, two, and when she counted three, green appeared. And I think that the self wants to have control over what appears and be able to predict. And that for me is the self that believes it can be active. And then there's that which just participates in what happens. But actually it is so that we have feelings.

[14:39]

These are complex. Jung, for example, said that it is not so that we have complexes or the complexes have others. And we tend to think that I feel this and this, but actually it's more like we have a feeling. What I mean by that is like Jung talking about a complex, a psychological complex. It's not that I have a complex, but the complex has me. Yeah, okay. Whenever I come to these automatic doors, I always come out and I test my power. I tried that too, but I ended up wounded. Can I tell you one other funny story?

[15:47]

There was a guy who always talked Italian to his hat. He used to walk up and down Page Street. I've seen people talking to their hat a little bit and a lot. In various cities you see these people walking. And this guy was always a talking Italian. He had his hand like this on the brim of his hat. So one time I pulled up to the garage, and those were the early days of remotes. They were new. So he saw me push this button and the garage door opened. How did you do that? And I said, well, you see, it's... He did speak English.

[16:59]

I said, you see, you take this and you push this and try it. So he took it, pushed it, and it closed. And then he pushed it again and opened it. He said, you mean you can open any door? Anita, you were going to say something. Before Reinhardt. So this connects with what Gerald said about completing a situation. Well, I know you're younger than I am, so I don't think it can be insulting. And I know you're beyond being insulted. I just feel this connection.

[18:07]

It has something to do with growing older, because I often look for something at home and somehow get confused that I can't arrange it. But this does have to do with aging, but more and more I'm looking for things at home, and I can't find them, and it's slightly irritating, and I know it should be here and there, but it's not. Or the bike that I can't find, but I know it's there. I've never lost a bicycle yet. I've never lost a bicycle yet. And this is an important training.

[19:40]

And I notice that it has a little success. Then I think to myself, I will not be demented yet. Maybe it is still a possibility to become demented. Maybe. I also have the feeling, is that maybe the moment, the now? It feels good somehow. So I'm trying to solve that problem, to encounter that problem by training myself to do one thing at a time and to really complete something before I start the next. And I am seeing somewhat of a success. So I'm also wondering if maybe that kind of training myself of completion, if maybe that's also a way to prevent dementia. And maybe the doctor can say something about that too. Probably.

[20:44]

Probably. I mean, it certainly makes, it helps to make that kind of effort. Even if you're 25. Oh, yeah. And then there's also this, it's like, there's this moment of completion, which is, it's a moment, and I wonder if that's the moment of calling, the moment to be called here and now. Yeah, fine, good. What concept? We're to it. Well, why not? Let's call it that. Okay, so we're going to have to have lunch at some point, and usually we end Sunday afternoon a little earlier, don't we?

[21:57]

Not necessarily? Usually. Yeah, but I mean, people plan to leave earlier because they have to go somewhere early. What time do you have to leave? We come by car, so we open. Okay, so we can go till midnight or so. But he says no, because this is his place. And we also, I want to decide with you whether we perform a Hanover seminar next year, here or somewhere. And so Heinrich might not be here because he doesn't have to be here next year. We might not... We force him. What? I force him. No, we've been in so much trouble forcing people to come. It's not... So anyway, that's what I would like to think about too.

[23:09]

So maybe we have a shorter lunch break or we skip lunch or we... So let me start a little bit on what I'm trying to sort out with you. And I use the word performance intentionally. Intentionally? No, perform, which, yeah, for what did you use it? I said, to perform this seminar next year. Oh, okay, thank you. And you can see that also, as Jörg pointed out the other day, that I'm always trying to find language or experiences that aren't languaged in the experience.

[24:23]

Yes, I would like to understand the analogy. I understand the analogy. I understand all the language in an experience session. because I want to share a lot of I want to share a lot of I want to share a lot of Um, and I'm also doing it because I find it is all to the third. it's [...]

[25:34]

So exactly so much as to describe an experience which you can imitate that experience. Sarah, he said, but to create a rational experience. Mind. Mind. Mind. Makes it more likely to have the body you want to experience. Yeah. So now I asked Nicole last night why The ceremony we just did also stepped back and stepped forward as Abbot.

[27:19]

Yesterday I asked Nicole why this ceremony we just did in Malta was cancelled because there were people who had just stepped back. and i i we are partly because i we are uh uh I would like to spend some time with the director of Creston Mountain Zen Center. She used to be the director. Anyway, so what do you think made her saying or she said then to me that it was moving, successful or something?

[28:31]

And I said, oh, yeah. And you think it was so successful? Quite a good feeling. The first thing she said was, which surprised me, that it was in the operation context of the performance. Okay, and this is a difference in English between preform and perform. To preform, of course, means to form before, to perform in advance.

[29:44]

Also vorbereiten, etwas im Vorhinein vorzubereiten. And a common experience for new teachers and things is they prepare the ceremony in advance, which is basically a mistake. Because there's something that happens in performance that's different than pre-performance. And this is really what Carell brought up, is the word performance actually means to completely, to follow through on something completely. So it's become a word for like theater performance, or music performance, where you do the music completely in that unit.

[30:52]

One of the problems with watching movies on computers, you can watch it and then turn it off and watch it later and then turn it off and watch it, you know. So the movie doesn't perform you. Okay, so here we have a concept of time. Okay, so I think that the concept of a permanent self is not... It's a straw man for us. Straw man? We have the same metaphor. You have the same metaphor? Yeah. Because none of us think that there's a permanent self. Yeah. But... We think there's an always there world out there.

[32:25]

And we think there's an always there time out there. And to think now, you're going to have to have a little time, a little time, a little incubatory time, With a distinction I'm making between always there time and durative time. Okay. Okay. One of the things Heidegger brings up very clearly is that being and time are the same thing. Now, I don't know if he put it the same way I'm trying to put it here, but it's related for sure.

[33:30]

Okay, so let's do a little riff here. There's no 12 o'clock. There's a minute to 12. There's half a minute to 12, there's half a minute after 12, but there's no 12. It's a millionth of a second before 12, and then it's a millionth of a second after 12. Where does the 12 go? I was supposed to do something at 12. It's gone. Okay. That's why I'm always late. No, I'm not always late. I'm not late as much as I used to be. Okay. I am late.

[34:30]

Now, is that self is late? Am I bad because I'm... Jetzt, wenn ich zu spät bin, ist es dann so ein Gefühl von, ich bin schlecht, weil ich zu spät bin, ist da das Selbstpräsent. Don't tell me I'm late, I will be insulted. No, no. Sag mir nicht, dass ich zu spät gekommen bin, dann bin ich beleidigt. Okay, durative time. Also, just one sec. Do I have to say it? Ja, eben, ich bin nicht ganz zufrieden damit. Zeit, die eine Dauer hat. Sagen wir es mal so rum. Zeit, die eine Dauer hat. Okay. So, although everything right now is immediately past and immediately future, we experience time. We experience a presence. And that's partly because our senses... Our eyes, for example, as I usually use this example, are actually scanning and putting a picture together in the brain.

[35:44]

Und das ist deshalb, weil unsere Augen, und das benutze ich oft als Beispiel dafür, unsere Augen die Situation immer abscannen und ein Bild im Gehirn produzieren. And creating that picture in the brain takes successive moments. And they've actually studied the scanning process. And a French psychologist discovered it after thousands of years of human life by just putting a mirror up and watching his eyes look at something. So the perceptual process, the sensorial process, is a scanning process that takes time.

[36:46]

And creates the illusion of a present. In which we can successively act. I can pick up the glass, etc. Okay. Okay. Now, I'm calling that sensorial time durative time. Ich nenne diese sensorische Zeit die Zeit, die über eine Dauer gekennzeichnet ist, die eine Dauer hat. So let's say that durative time, I'm defining durative time as the sensorial time and the time of interdependence. So the sensorial process and interdependence combine to make what I'm calling durative time.

[38:04]

Now, Now, sensorial time is, and if I pick up this glass, etc., that's all the activity of interdependence. There's the, within sensorial time, there's the interdependence of phenomena. innerhalb dieser sensorischen Zeit gibt es die wechselseitige Abhängigkeit der Erscheinung.

[39:13]

So we could talk also about, we could say maybe, sensorial time and phenomenal time, the time of phenomena. Deshalb könnten wir auch über die sensorische Zeit oder die phänomenologische Zeit sprechen, die Zeit, die durch die Phänomene hervorgebracht wird. Okay, now that time is... That's the sense of a dharma. So dharma can mean the units of appearance. And maybe more subtly, dharma can mean the illusion of a present as presence. Okay, so we can say that this is getting a little complicated, I'm sorry.

[40:15]

But I'll try to simplify it after lunch. He's ready to have lunch right now. Okay, so what I'm establishing is that the experienced present is a presence. Okay, and... So durative time, I'll try to stick to the center of this discussion.

[41:26]

Durative time can be performed And if I say performed, I mean carried through entirely. Okay, now, there's an interesting example of the Buddha is called omniscient. Okay, now generally that's thought of in the West as the Buddha knows everything. But it doesn't mean the Buddha knows everything. Because there's no such context as eternal time and everything is known. There's only moment by moment durative time.

[42:27]

So the omniscience of the Buddha means at each moment a Buddha is one who fully knows durative time. At each moment. All right, so the yogic view of Buddhism the yogic view of how we exist to exist as how things actually are is we completely engage with durative time. And it's funny that, as Gural pointed out, if you completely engage, complete each moment by moment,

[43:29]

much for some reason we could try to analyze it but I'll leave it for now for some reason the karma of incompletion in the past much of it is resolved by completing the present It's one of the meanings of taking the precepts. To take the precepts means... That was not a Freudian mistake. If she says it's not a Freudian mistake, it probably is. She's blushing now.

[44:46]

I have no idea what's going on, but I can see there's a blushing going on. It was a Friday on this day. I remember somebody said, what do we say about a lotus flower? Like somebody in... It's like a locust instead of a lotus. We live like a locust in floating water. In muddy water. In muddy water. And everyone starts laughing and I think, what's he doing here? Okay. All right. So we take the precepts and if we take the precepts and live the precepts means you live in a way that completely respects others that also is a way to dissolve the karma of the past okay okay

[45:54]

Now, when we did this ceremony, by having the preparation as part of the performance, Which means that we brought the same attention to the preparation as we brought to the performance. And the preparation was the performance. And that's true of the tea ceremony and all kinds of yogic arts. And in that way we can think of language as a yogic practice. Because you're using language to complete and refine yourself in your speaking. And at each moment like when you try to enter the field of kin-hin, if I'm speaking to any one of you, as much as possible I'm trying to enter the field of our shared possibilities.

[47:36]

Now that's a yogic view of the world. Now we have to understand what self means in this yogic view of the world. Okay. So the ceremony when we did it We started at a certain time, two or three days before, because there were lots of things to do. And I tried to do three-quarter rehearsals, not full rehearsals. Because I want the rehearsals to flow into the performance. So I didn't want us to feel prepared through the rehearsal, but initiated through the rehearsal. So we started a kind of closely held attention that stayed with each detail.

[48:54]

So our attentional point flowed through the details. And there was no other location in mind. Okay. So at each moment, the yogi flows in Durative time. So that means if you think time is always there, that's not durative time.

[49:59]

That's a concept of permanent time. Permanent, permanent, always there at least. Now we're taking, I'm changing the word permanent to always there. So we're forgetting about the permanent self. But we're talking now about the always there time and the always there world in which we think the self is acting in that always there world and always there time. And to conceive of the self as functioning within an always there world and always there time is dynamically the same as having a permanent self. Okay. That was kind of difficult to do.

[51:31]

I mean, I've only started, but that much was kind of difficult to do. Isn't it interesting how subtle and complex our world is? And how easy it is to get confused by always there world, which it isn't always there. And how easy it is to get confused by a concept of a world that is always there, but in reality is not always there. If you think from this moment a conceptual world follows, That's a delusion. What follows from this moment is only an experiential world. A world that you may, let's hopefully, experience. Conceptually, it's an as-if world. And as if experiential world.

[52:47]

So the yogi never speaks to another person as if the future is going to exist. It's always a maybe. And we're going to perform it maybe. And now we're going to perform lunch.

[53:10]

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