Some people felt we should be good to have more discussion about the five skandhas. So I'd like to start with some of the silent people. Dieter? Dieter? Not if you're going to stay in the winter branches. But I can come back to you if you want. Ulrich? When I I try to understand the skandhas. I try to understand the skandhas.

[01:02]

I try to understand the skandhas. I find myself so lost that they kind of fall apart. What falls apart? Like a yawn or some thought. Then it falls apart like scarlet. I see. Take example, yawning, he appears. And with the yawning almost... You mean just as you start to fall asleep and Zazen, a wake-up impulse comes.

[02:02]

She does that too, Carolina. I want to have that too. Oh, she wants to have that. Okay, I'm sorry to interrupt. Go ahead. And I notice that there is something about my perception. In yawning, there is something like a pulse. And I notice that there is something about my perception. In yawning, there is something like a pulse. And I notice that there is something about my perception. In yawning, there is something like a pulse. live like an unconscious, the second experience. And then it's even deeper than that, which is to be, that you only appear in that place, like not to go to feeling and form.

[03:09]

In this manner, the secular and the saints fall into one category, one part, one area, and the other. Vitamin E don't feel like a good thing. Always the question arises, what exactly is that all is for? What is that I am looking for? To still find the form. To find. understand or more than that. Or more, let's say, tend to be there before laymen.

[04:15]

If it's after that, it always feels like consciousness. And what I find in that life makes it sort of a motivation. before, with the attention before the naming, so to speak. And that's in the last session, this morning, yes, the evening of the draft, and that's the end of the naming process. Naming is something that's happy behind. It's like a very unusual experience for me. Before naming, it's special that I did not expect. And that's very interesting.

[05:17]

How did you remain silent so long with so much to say? Yeah, I mean, it related, but a little different. In this koan 20, it's talking about this very territory. It says... And I mentioned it the other day but hold to the moment before thought arises. And then see into seeing. And then let seeing go. Now, Andreas, you haven't been silent during the seminar, but for you, you've been rather silent. You look like a frog there for a moment.

[06:37]

Okay. I did say something to the skandhas. Me, it was a practice with the skandhas. We did a seminar with Rishi. It was the hardest time we studied. Between nine days, we managed to go through four sentences. And he said that Avalokiteshvara recognized in deep practice, a profound practice. And then for me it's like stop, what does recognize mean? It means just recognize. And then what is deep or profound practice?

[07:41]

And with this kind of preparation I learned the skandhas. In this manner I approached the skandhas. My experience is that depending on which... My experience is, depending on with which mind I look at the skandhas, they have different results, and at the same time they produce different results. All of your comments are in the territory of exploring, trying to notice how we function. If I look here at this microphone,

[08:55]

If you look at it or hear it, it sometimes moves around. And then I looked, and then there's a huge tape recorder, and there seemed to be somebody behind it. But if I look really past that huge tape recorder, Frank... Who is that? Could you say something? Right now? If I had a long stick. I mean, I say, I'm not used to say something here in the big group, so I have to switch to change.

[10:17]

Well, you can come after Ulrich, Ulrich. Ulrich or Dieter? Dieter, I mean. I can say something to my state. No. It has to do with life-scandals of our content, not enough what we think to do. For me, most of this is very new to me. But we are very slow. So I have to go home and study what material we have and try to get closer to what I have heard here. And I currently try to integrate it into my practice.

[11:46]

That would be my approach to it. I noticed that I have resistance. Yes, I have always been very satisfied with it, to think about it. It depends on sitting and paying attention to it in the evening, and actually everything that one has learned or thinks that belongs to it, to forget. And yes, I think now comes the point where I see that this is not so, but that perhaps in practice this work that I participate in here is also part of it. And to find a form for that will be my next practice.

[13:07]

I do not surprise for being able to continue participating in this I think, well, first of all, it's good to study Hande Witt and others. It's good to look through the book I told you the other day about Frau Wallner. But mainly you want to look at to your own experience. And I ask each of you, if you find a difference between the way I'm presenting these things And of course there are differences between early Abhidharma and later Abhidharma.

[14:36]

And then the use of Abhidharma thinking in the Lankavatara Sutra and in the development of the Yogacara and Madhyamaka schools. But there will also be some differences, is what I'm saying, from all of those sources. And of course it's unavoidable and natural for you to look at the way I'm presenting it in comparison to the way the texts are presented. But don't take the texts as the authority. Take your own experience as the authority.

[15:46]

And your own experience should be the authority too in relationship to the text. And this is what, in the way I'm presenting it, has been developed over 45 years. And it's based on Sukhiroshi's own development over, I don't know, 50 years, 55 years. So, yeah, so it... Still, even though I've been doing this longer than most of you, still your experience is the ultimate authority. But you can benefit from my experience and you can benefit from the experience of the development of the Abhidharma in traditional terms.

[16:54]

And I think you'll find it not so much work. If you start noticing simple things like thunder or an appearance in your mind and when you name it and when you don't name it. Yeah, I mean, it's like me trying to watch a soccer, a football game. What means men are running around armless? What are they doing?

[18:03]

So I try to see what the rules might be and then you were sitting beside me so I could ask you. So the ultimate football game is going on in your mind. What's going on there? What are the rules? Who made the rules? The problem with just sitting therapeutically is you already have lots of stuff built in that isn't examined unless you do examine it. So my simple formula is, do you practice for well-being or non-being? It will not be.

[19:05]

The biggest cheaper. But non-being means looking at existence itself. The McLean team, you know, okay. It would have been difficult to say something the days before, so I was glad you weren't asking. The lean, mean McLean team. But now it's a little clearer. When I started practicing, I don't know, over 20 years ago, I did what you said. I bought this book about the Lhaka Bhattarika by D.T.

[20:06]

Suzuki, translated, and I read it line by line by line by line, the whole book. And most of it stuck. So I had a remembrance of the Vijnanas. But I couldn't, I wouldn't be able to practice it thoroughly just by reading it. And so I found this, and even more so with this text of Han Di Witt, it was like a recipe, but baking a cake, doing it with your hands is complete in another world. So this is what I saw, it sort of fell apart. I did my practice over the years with you and you all together. And what I'm... I don't think when I hear how this is being done and what results are and what one is able to do, I don't think I've come... I don't want to compare, but I don't think I achieved very much, but... You don't think you have what very much?

[21:09]

Achieved very much. Achieved. But I don't want to compare, really. Well, go ahead. What I want to say is that it's Well, you're getting to the point, I can tell somehow. Well, I'm able to stay mostly in my breath, but it needs something more. It needs a sort of concentration, a sort of... oscillation has to sort of has the frequency has to become higher so that I can it's like a bit in physics when you when it when you look at objects you have to be smaller than the tool with which you examine objects has to be smaller than the objects themselves so if you

[22:11]

if you examine, like form, feeling, and so on, or appearance and discrimination, if you move in these realms, you have to be quite concentrated and finely oscillating. And this is a different thing than just being able to... So this is not... So this is what I'm battling and practicing. Somehow I thought of Alice in Wonderland. That's marvelous.

[23:25]

I'm reading it to Sophia. And she has to become very, very small so she can examine the world. So luckily she finds a bottle saying, drink me. So we all need a little bottle. No, no, that wouldn't be too bad. Yes. And there's a sentence in Handewitt's book that was still a big question mark for me. So this is in this chapter about the solidistic characteristics of experience. And he says that the mind tends to present us the phenomena as objects. And if we take these objects for real or real existence, then we live in this subsisting world, which just exists for us alone and as long as we exist.

[24:38]

But in my experience, isn't it that the world anyhow just exists somehow just for us and with us, not independently from us? Or is this a wrong understanding? I hear what you said. I don't quite know how that relates to the text, but Deutsch, bitte. One of the problems I have with understanding is in the text of Han De Witt, in this section about the solipsistic character of experience, where he says, if we consider the objects presented to us by the spirit as really existent, we live in a world created by our spirit and thus in a world that only exists then, as long as we exist ourselves and that also exists with our passing.

[25:41]

And that was my question now, because somehow, in my understanding, it is independent of it anyway, isn't it? So it's not like, even if we don't consider it to be real existence, the world doesn't exist independently of us. Because if not, then the world is like an entity separated from myself. Well, the world for us as living beings, the world only exists through our experience. So a boulder falls off a cliff and hits your car. You didn't cause it to happen, but once it hits you, it's your experience. I can't believe it. I have to go back to Frank.

[26:54]

No? Frank! You're going to lose your job behind that tape recorder. If you have to say something else, I'll wait. So when I read Handelwit, I immediately fell asleep. And when I woke up, there were three pages. And when you woke up, I asked you to say something. That was funny. I tried it again and again, and I found the pages back that were lost during my sleep, but I couldn't get into this text. I have studied a lot throughout my life, also at university and in school, and there I have mostly learned how to look at things from the outside, how to establish this position from the outside and a careful look at things from the outside. And studying Buddhism is for me the turning of this attitude.

[28:01]

It is an attempt to find the study from within. So for me, almost everything in practice circles around this point, how I check out, fall out, I should say something about the word checkout. You check out a book from the library. You can check out whether that's a good movie or not, or a good something. But if you simply check out, it means you die. I'm going to check out.

[29:02]

It means I'm through with life. It's not so far away. Yeah, but that's what I mean. What I mean is that I'm looking forward to what's going on there. I mean this looking from the outside. Going on here you mean, not there. You're looking forward to what's going on there? In practice. Oh, in practice. It's concerning this word study, this practice of study. I mean, this is also a study center. The name of Johannes is a good study center. So study is quite important. And so I, most of the time, I almost never practice systematically. I hear these things and they are completely familiar for me when I hear them.

[30:03]

I don't know why, but they are familiar. And I find them in my study, in studying myself. In your personal investigation of practice. but I don't practice them systematically. I mean, I have more and more these moments when I simply go along this way from my office to the kitchen there at Graupner's, and just going becomes more and more just going. And this is something like coming inside. Okay, Deutsch mit dem. I almost never practice systematically. The things that appear in the five skandhas and the four marks and the vijnanas are familiar to me when I hear them from what I experience in practice. But I wouldn't try them systematically to find them out or to understand them better. It's more like I just stay there and watch what happens and they appear.

[31:07]

That's how I imagine or experience it. how I experience little things in everyday life more and more so that I am inside. So when I go into my office at Wolfgang Rautner's in my room in the kitchen, then this going into the kitchen is more and more just going. And it's wonderful to go there. It's wonderful to go there. Okay. Now I sit here behind this tape recorder. Nice. Okay. Yeah. Something to my being silent and Yesterday afternoon, I climbed to go to Harris Street and I started. I was in my speed, I was really slowly.

[32:12]

You were walking? Walking, yeah. And mine is not so far. And I had to cancel my plan because I never would have done it in these two hours. And I had to come back early for cooking. Why do I say that? listening to you, I sit here and somehow listening beyond thinking it's somehow as if I breathe in what you say and yeah, it's somehow like

[33:15]

feeling invited to share a space with you and like walking through a garden and you're pointing out these flowers and that and so and it's simply nice sitting here and listening and I know another space that's mainly in the beginning of this week, in the small group, the big group, where for me another language was used. another atmosphere arose, kind of a language I would describe as kind of categorical, some kind of linear, some kind of analytic, not psychoanalytic, but kind of analytic language.

[34:33]

I get then familiar with this kind of talking and discussing. But I then am in a totally different position, in a totally different space. It's not walking through a garden and just pointing out and coming back to my own feelings. It's taking me outside and I'm kind of judging. comparing with what I heard and learned and studied etc. etc. and getting into that I also easily come into some kind of comparing and judging and so. And the small groups and what What's for me difficult here, I'm here mostly in just sitting and listening and feeling somehow open for whatever comes.

[35:48]

And listening, when we have this discussion, so-called discussion, I feel sometimes simply too slow. It's not that I don't have to say something, but this one is saying something, that one is saying something, you say something, and when I have found out I found out what I could say or what fit the context has passed. I'm just always running behind what is going on, and that's not very nice. So I sit here and see what's happening. Another experience was in a small group.

[36:50]

I experienced totally different. It was for me a very nice way of working on a scene and at the same time having enough time and space to coming from the scene, finding out what do I feel, what's in me, and what comes up in me, and coming out then and telling enough wideness and openness to present that, and what's really, for me, a really nice atmosphere. Yeah, that's simply, I don't know what to call that, also some technical problems. A question that came up this morning was, what you say, and also what the others say, When you ask, I probably couldn't say what you said, but I have a sure feeling it's not gone.

[38:11]

So it's like to find out and to answer, I had to go through my inner house just slowly and look in this room and that room, oh, this is what could fit to the question. And that simply takes a lot of time. And I thought, what's the reason for that? I don't know if that's the answer but it came up maybe it's simply I don't have got an inner structure a Zen Buddhist inner structure that is established where I know this is shelved so that place is somehow not to get not really so much organized in a space. And if it's that, I'm really thankful for getting some kind of screen background to store what I hear and what I experience.

[39:24]

Well, that's very useful. But I think, can you say at least some of it in German, in Deutsch? Yes. Yesterday I tried to go to Harishri and then I failed the attempt because in my own inner speed I would never have made it. And then I wanted to be back for cooking. So I somehow dried something up, turned it in a smaller circle and came back. And it is somehow a bit characteristic. So when I listen to Roshi, then it is mostly so. And that's not what I've not said. It's really very much depending on the language.

[40:27]

You use a certain type of language. And then I listen and somehow open up with all my senses And it is almost as if I am invited to enter a common inner space, like going to the garden together and only this and that is shown. And for me there is such an openness and such a breadth. And then I just sit here and listen. And I can just enjoy being here. and at the same time I experience myself as very actively listening, and at the same time also listening. And then there are other experiences for me, a different space of listening, where the language is different, a language that I, rather categorically, as thinking in terms, as being somehow also linear, target-oriented,

[41:40]

um, so bezeichnen. Das ist eine ganz andere Sprache und die ist mir nicht fremd. Also hier ist im Moment ein Weg. Und wenn ich dann in diesem Raum mich bewege, dann komme ich ins Denken. Und dann bin ich draußen vor und denke über das nach, über dieses Wort nach und komme in ein Diskutieren und dann komme ich auch ganz leicht in ein Vergleichen und Beurteilen hinein. And then I miss this atmosphere, this width of going through the garden together, going through this inner space. And another experience is the last small groups. There I somehow found a very successful synthesis of these two rooms. We had a topic. And there was a lot of room for me to look inside with this topic and somehow find out for myself without time, how do you actually live it?

[42:54]

How do you experience it? And then it was time to share that with the group and with what was then said, to let it affect me again and somehow a synthesis from these two different rooms. And I also experienced that as very pleasant. And here in the big group it is sometimes like this, Then the one says something, the other says something, and the third one says something. And then it's very easy for me to get into this thinking. And when I really want to see how it goes for me with what is being said, and then I've found out for myself, we're already three, four people further. Then I come into something like that and start to smile. and I never really get to that point, because then it's like zack, [...] it's too fast for me, it's simply too fast here in the room where I am, and I have no desire to put in the effort, and when I put in the effort, then I get into thinking, and that doesn't do me any good, that's what I do in everyday life.

[44:03]

That's what I also remember. Sometimes I have a personal story, I think. Sometimes I also think, if I say it the way it would fit me, then you take too much time. There are such things here, and I smoke time. And then, I don't know, I think, or I experience unbearable, or I am unbearable myself. And then I notice, then I take myself back, not to do that to him. That is, I think, out of my own box of history. But that also comes to mind. So, this non-division, this time for myself. Okay. Anyway, I think what you've just said is valuable and helpful.

[45:20]

And I think that we want to have everyone's voice in this discussion. And part of it, we learn how to enter our voice fruitfully into the discussion. And there's certainly no harm in saying, I'd like to say something, but I want to go back to the previous topic and say just this. Because we're all at both slow and fast. While we're on the next topic, we're still on the previous topic. And slow is sometimes just taking time to really get it. And slowly often means taking time to really understand it.

[46:32]

And that surprised me. It comes to my mind this morning, the gains and the input. It has not yet differentiated. It has not yet differentiated. It has not yet differentiated. I don't want enlarging of consciousness. I want joy of consciousness. They're interrelated, actually. I'm crying. [...] You mean an Abhidharma self-help group?

[47:46]

Ten steps of recovery program. Okay. Yeah, well, Isabella? You caught me. I wonder where. Yes. What I listened to was also... Oh, let me say it in German. For me, it was also a lot of new things. For me, lots was new. The five scandals I heard for the first time. And I never heard anything from the Marxists either. And... I'm very fascinated.

[48:55]

I'm very fascinated. [...] the observation of my process and think, yes, that fits in there. That could be it. And so over the course of the week I have built up a somewhat fragile structure. to be able to name them more clearly. I think I just understood what spiritual work is in this week, or what it could mean.

[50:09]

I observed thoughts, disturbed my breath, counted them. And now the whole thing has taken a third dimension. Where I take it into the room. When I open my eyes. When I sit down. And it's very helpful. Even when you say it's all inside. It still scares me. But I get used to it. And I think that's very helpful for them. Naming, I realize I have to create anchors so that I can learn with this field.

[51:11]

I wouldn't say to set up anchors, that's too much, but to get a certain level of security. I was afraid when I went home that I was going to die again. What I was tired of this week was a tender lie. Out of nowhere. Like a spider web or something. I built it up. Yes, and I said that to the doctor in the morning, and he said, I notice it too. Everyone in here needs people who work on the same thing. You don't even have to talk about it. But it's just good to know that there are people who work on this space to explore. It makes sense. It has its own form of... Yeah, it's a force, it's an energy, it's a force, it's an energy. I wish so much, what I said at the very beginning, I said it in contrast to the spiritual work, I wish so much that I can do it.

[52:17]

and to be able to weave together. It's not something special. [...] Okay. I'm very grateful for this experience. Oh, that's nice. Yes. Okay. For me, I've heard a million times, form is emptiness and vice versa. And sometimes when you speak about it, it's sort of, okay, really, that's what it means? And I just, the next moment, I cannot even repeat it anymore. Have you heard more? And this time this morning was really...

[53:31]

the first time I get something which got stuck. That when you go that list backwards, that form, maybe now I'm going to screw it up, that it's the merging of the background and the foreground where I don't make a form pop out. It's basically all there, but nothing is kind of created. in some sense like that I can really understand the emptiness in that way if it's somewhat that way and it's kind of a real fun thing also this morning, when it went backwards from the bottom to the top, that form and emptiness come together, that the melting of the background and the foreground takes place, and I no longer pick something out and make a form out of it with myself, that this is emptiness, if all this stays together,

[55:06]

And then it's even funny, it's fun, this emptiness. But everything is there all of a sudden. I don't make a form out of it. So that's how I feel. It's like, it's a kind of fun thing. It's all there, but I don't make a form out of it. Okay. That's one way to understand emptiness. Okay. Atmar, you were going to say something earlier. You wanted to say something before. Everything's okay now? Okay. Erhard? For me, in this seminar, there is a lot more clarity in the whole thing. The instructions were all wonderful. to gain this clarity. I used to have a certain understanding of yoga, and then I saw Buddhism, and then I saw the points of contact, and I think now I can really put it all together.

[56:25]

And also very concretely, So practice is what I can do. And I don't know your name. Isabella. What you said is exactly the same for me. In this case, I finally have the feeling to know what I have to do. Okay, yes? For me, this week has been very helpful.

[57:40]

And in a certain way, I'm a little bit surprised by that. But that's a long time ago. Actually, since we got this list, that we should read something, that we got the winning points, It actually started for me that I thought about reading when I really wanted to find something theoretical. And until then, the practice for me was also like, I think, being in the breath for a long time. And for me, working with words and phrases. And with preferences and not with rejections. [...] I understand that I immediately have a question, but still I have the feeling that I understand quite well and I am already curious how the practice will continue.

[59:11]

But what I actually feel now are things that I don't sit on, for example, I started buying things pretty soon, including the Avidama, The Abhidhamma. And this is very interesting to me. At first I was so irritated that I closed it and thought to myself, OK, I can read it all. It's all in the Etude. And then somehow it didn't leave me alone. And then I opened it again. And then I thought to myself, OK, I read it. [...] And now something has happened, yes, and somehow I'm not quite sure what kind of practice this is now.

[60:19]

Because in the meantime I practice through the Abhidharma, but not now on the basis of a certain content, but it was more because I was pretty because I was quite impressed, and also by the socks, what was happening there, this huge ignorance. The ignorance that was there was very impressive to me. And with the time of reading, a feeling came to me There's just this complex picture of it. It's just not of any value. It was a complex, multi-layered, time and space. It was a feeling that somehow arose in me. And then I took it very consciously, because it came quite intensively through reading.

[61:24]

And then I practiced with it. And at the same time I was busy with the practice of following the micro units of time. That was my practice at that time. And because of that I got into an incredible slowdown and then very consciously practiced with them. And that has, first of all, increased the space of my practical time, so to speak. I felt much safer in practice than before. And I started to practice my patterns much better and much more, as she said, the glue, which is otherwise so tight, has somehow become looser.

[62:24]

And I was able to see my patterns and especially my bodies quite well. I looked into space and looked at them, and then I began to realize how liberating it is. I felt how the emptiness gets less suffering. I didn't really know that they were there, because I was very quickly caught up in what was happening. It was cold. It was cold. It was also interesting. And yes, and then there was an experience that I would like to know about now, in relation to Soheit, because I have been interested in it since we spoke yesterday. I would like to know about it now.

[63:25]

It was a situation where I bought flowers and brought them home and then started to do this very slowly, extended work. And it was very fine, this paper somehow deepened and I opened it very slowly. Finally, I opened it. I wanted to pick one, but I forgot the flowers. No, it was about flowers. And when I left, on the way there, it was like for the first time seeing flowers. It was very precise and intense from the colors. And it was an activity, since that activity means something to me. And it was like a space-time flower. And now for me, because we talked about it yesterday, the question was whether it could be so hot now.

[64:39]

I didn't think that. I always think that since yesterday. It's a good alias for suchness. It's like in a computer, you know. I'm just kidding. All right, I'll come back to it. Go ahead. Also, our suchness, does it exist for me at all? I have questions. For me, there are different territories, but all of them have the taste of suchness for me. And first of all, I think that, for example, the practice of the things as they are That is so, and for me it has something to do with so-ness.

[66:22]

But now I don't know, for example with the flowers, it's different again. And then there is a third one with this so-ness, for me it's trustworthiness. Ah, this is this story that I was once on the subway. I was touched by human faces very much. And I once had this experience on the subway that the faces of the people were just perfect. There was nothing to take away from them, and nothing was missing. Yes, deep beauty or so. And that is in the meantime little, so it is not so strong now, but it is there. So that accompanies me. And that's why I ride it on the subway and let it be touched by the sight. And that too is for me something like this. Only this. It can't be otherwise. And it is complete. I think we can call both your experiences so-ness or thus-ness or such-ness.

[67:48]

We can call them both such-ness as long as we don't call them such-ness. In other words, we can talk about the gates to experiences that we call suchness, but you can't say exactly what is suchness. Now we should break up into small groups in a moment. Just to start the oven. Yeah, okay, go ahead. One question, short. Is this with the flowers, for me also that is a kind that could be reality. Is it so? There's no reality. But there's a problem with reality in English because it means it's real. It's not real.

[68:52]

It's maybe actuality. Or we can say it's an experience of things as they are. But it's not an experience for others as they are. This is a very intimate experience. But when one has such an experience, it is an experience of things as they are. But you have a problem when you generalize it.

[69:56]

I didn't say so. I'm talking to everything. If one generalizes it, oh, this is things, no, that's, then that creates something else. Okay. I think everybody's going to have to save any more questions for the small groups. Or I'll be here tomorrow if I follow the schedule. Okay. Now, let me suggest that when you look at a book like any of these books for the first time, Or when you're checking out a book, whether you think it would be useful. Don't start from the beginning and read it. I mean, skip through and find a passage you like. And then you see if... that passage which caught your eye, goes anywhere for you.

[71:27]

It's not just a matter of chance. I mean, of... Yeah, I'll say it that way, of chance. Because the intelligence of an author is only exhibited occasionally in a book. Denn die Intelligenz eines Autoren zeigt sich nur gelegentlich in einem Buch. Denn ein Großteil eines Textes ist nur Sachen zusammenzufügen. So you can really feel the understanding of somebody shining only in certain parts of the text. And often it's in the first few sentences because people put a lot of effort in the first sentences. If you can feel the shine of the understanding of a person, Then you can begin to read, expand from there, and eventually perhaps read the whole book. If you can feel the shine of the intelligence of the author, then you're more forgiving of them when they're kind of dumb.

[72:34]

Now, what I'd like us to do, I mean, we may have to make dinner a little later, you know, to change the setting on the convection oven. I'd still like you to have a real small group session. And what I'd like you to speak about is The five skandhas to the extent that you feel like you ought to speak about. But I'd also like you to review with each other how you feel about the winter branches. I just worked in my schedule for next year. And we'll have two one-week sessions instead of three.

[73:54]

As we do this year. At least that's the plan right now. At least that's the plan so far. Because we assume that normal working people can't take two or three weeks off and then get another session of their work. Okay. So, but even so, we're still expecting each person to do one Sashin, right? And one seminar without me and one seminar with me? Poor guys. And... So I want to know if you think this works.

[75:08]

And if somebody really, for some reason, physical reason or age or whatever, can't do a sashin, that's possible too, but I'd like to speak about it with the person. Andres just told me he wants to speak to me. I didn't know that it was possible. OK. So we've had two sessions now. Not all of you have been at the two sessions. I don't know if this is going to work. And what do we do? We say, this year is the Abhidharma. Next year is the sutras. Next year is the koans. It's good. Something like that.

[76:22]

Maybe we should have the next few years in the Abhidharma. No, he's not so sure. But anyway, we have to decide together, not just by myself, what we do, how we proceed, and what's effective. And of course, as our As our relationship to this practice and study develops, we'll have different ideas a year from now. Erhard, how long have we been practicing together? Fifteen, seventeen years.

[77:23]

Since 89. Dharma brothers. Okay, so 15 or 17 years. Okay. And today you said, finally you now know what to do. But somehow in the last 17 years or 15, you've known something about what to do. But what is it about these dead sticks that leads us to winter branches that leads us finally to say, oh, finally. What have I been doing all this year? And I'm not trying to put you on the spot. I'm just saying, yes, maybe this is a change. And let's recognize together what that change is, if it is, and then proceed.

[78:33]

Okay. Thank you very much.

[78:35]

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