Yes, you've all applied for this winter branches program and you don't know what you're getting yourself into. Yeah, maybe we'll see if it makes sense. And if there's some difference... You don't have to lean in my way. I'll talk loudly. Speak loudly. I'm getting deaf. You're getting deaf? Oh, no. If there's some difference, I guess it will be instead of my trying to adjust the teaching to you, I'm going to expect you to adjust yourself to the teaching. Or something like that.

[01:12]

Of course, what to do and how to do this is some experiment for us together. And I'd like this morning, in this first session, mostly each of you to just introduce yourself, say your name, and somewhere between three words and a few sentences about what you do in your life. And most of you know each other, but not all of you know each other. And I'm... If we continue this, what some people call dead sticks, or winter branches program, I'm going to expect you to... We'll be practicing together for...

[02:23]

Yeah, much of this off and on this year and maybe continuing. And, yeah, and I'm going to... I'm going to expect you to... practice together expect you to help each other in practicing because this is for me is not well it's partly of course maybe Maybe there's several folds here. One fold is I want you to understand and realize that teaching and practice is fully.

[03:42]

And the other fold is So as a Sangha we understand together the practice and teaching. Because the teaching really continues when both the Sangha and the individuals have developed, realized, understood the teachings. So, why don't we just start with you? My name is Gunter and I'm living in Kassel. My profession is a psychotherapist. Thanks. Good morning.

[04:57]

Yes, you've all applied for this Winter Branches program and you don't know what you're getting yourself into. Yeah, maybe we'll see if it makes sense. And If there's some difference... You don't have to lean in my way. I'll talk loudly. Speak loudly. I'm getting deaf. You're getting deaf? Oh, no. If there's some difference, I guess it will be instead of my trying to adjust the teaching to you, I'm going to expect you to adjust yourself to the teaching. Or something like that.

[06:04]

Of course, what to do and how to do this is some experiment for us together. Mm-hmm. And I'd like this morning, in this first session, mostly each of you to just introduce yourself, say your name, and somewhere between three words and a few sentences about what you do in your life. And most of you know each other, but not all of you know each other. And I'm... If we continue this, what some people call dead sticks, or winter branches program, I'm going to expect you to... We'll be practicing together for...

[07:23]

Yeah, much of this off and on this year and maybe continuing. And... Yeah, and I'm going... How to put it? I'm going to expect you to... practice together expect you to help each other in practicing because this is for me is not well it's partly of course maybe Maybe there's several folds here. One fold is, you know, I want you to understand and realize that teaching and practice is fully.

[08:42]

And the other fold is... So as a sangha we understand together the practice and teaching. Because the teaching really continues when both the sangha and the individuals have developed, realized, understood the teachings. So why don't we just start with you? My name is Gunter and I'm living in Kassel. My profession is psychotherapist. My name is Peter.

[09:57]

I'm living in Johanneshof since October last year and besides of that I'm playing clown for children in hospital and make theater. But can you also say it in German, you know? And maybe last names, too, because there might be more than one Gunther. Yes. We have to find a Gunther to accept. Where are the children right now? Care of my grandparents. I'm Katharina, I come from the Schwenz, I work there as a psychotherapist and teach students about working together with parents of disabled children.

[11:17]

I've been coming here for many years. Maybe you can say it to me in English, some of it. And Katharina works as a psychotherapist in Switzerland and also teaches working with disabled people and comes since several years here to Johanneshof. Okay. I thought you said something about children. No? You didn't, did you? With the elderly. Were the parents of the children? Oh, parents of the children, I see, yeah. Okay. Okay. Why not you? My name is Niel.

[12:37]

I have been a general practitioner in Berlin for 27 years and have also been coming to Johanneshof since the beginning of the year. I am looking forward to discovering this thing with you, which we call Winterzweige. Hi. Frank. I am Frank and I live here in Kaff and come to Johanneshof every day to practice. What's he doing? What else except practicing? What's he doing? Writing. Making radio programs. Do I have to introduce people here? Yes. Yes, Doris. My name is Doris. I come from Berlin. I've been teacher... Several years, in the last 25 years, I work as a psychotherapist for children.

[13:43]

The new thing in my life is my little grandson, and he is my teacher in practicing beginner's mind. He's a good teacher. Deutsch, bitte. And how old is your grandson? Okay. My name is Peter. I'm living in Johanneshof since October last year and besides of that I'm playing clown for children in hospital and make theatre.

[15:10]

But can you also say it in German, you know? In German. I'm Peter, I've been playing since October here in Johanneshof and in my life as a clown in a children's hospital I play theatre. And maybe last names too, because there might be more than one Gunter. Yes. We have to find a Gunter to accept. My name is Nikolai Aldag. I am a general practitioner in Frankfurt. I am married to Beate, who is sitting over there. Together with two children. I have been here for many years. Where are the children right now? I'm Katharina. I come from the Schwenz. I work there as a psychotherapist and teach students about working together with parents of disabled children.

[16:18]

I've been coming here for many years. Maybe you can say it to me in English, some of it. And Katharina works as a psychotherapist in Switzerland and also teaches working with disabled people and comes since several years here to Johanneshof. Okay. I thought you said something about children. No? I didn't know. With the elderly. Oh, parents of the children, I see. Why not you? My name is Niel.

[17:37]

I have been a general practitioner in Berlin for 27 years and have also been coming to Johanneshof since the beginning of the year. I am happy to discover this thing with you, which we call Winterzweige. I am Frank and I live here in Kaff and come to Johanneshof every day to practice. What's he doing? What else except practicing? What's he doing? Writing. Making radio programs. Do I have to introduce people here? Yes. Doris. My name is Doris. I come from Berlin. I've been a teacher for several years.

[18:37]

In the last 25 years, I work as a psychotherapist for children. The new thing in my life is my little grandson, and he's my teacher in practicing beginner's mind. He's a good teacher. And how old is your grandson? One year Not bad. Otmer? My name is Otmer Hengel. I'm living here at Johanneshof and partly also in Berlin.

[19:39]

Not so often. Yeah, that's too bad, yeah. My name is Ockmar Egger, and I live here in Johanneshof, and also sometimes in Berlin. Okay. My name is Fritz, not Felix. Fritz, yes. No, no, no. I'm a mechanic, and I live near Freiburg in Staupen. My name is Susanne Easterlein. I'm here with my father, who's taking care of my little baby right now. He should be here by now, but he's just moving. He's going to the US, and he can't come back. Yeah.

[21:04]

My name is Susanne Esselwein. I'm here with my father. He's taking care of my baby Emily, or my husband's baby Emily. And my husband wanted to be also here, but he couldn't since we are moving to the United States, and he already had to be there. Where in the United States? Houston, Texas. Houston, Texas. George Bush. Yeah, I may have some special work for him. To undermine, no. So how long will you be there? Three or four years. Oh my goodness. Okay. Yes. Yes. My name is Irene. I live here in Johannesburg since the end of February. My name is Bernd Flach.

[22:08]

I come from Basel. I work with people, in the evening, as a therapist. And work is an important part of my life. I work with people mainly, therapeutically, and the work is a very important part of my practice. My name is Frau, I come from Munich. and work there as a biologist, mainly in planting. I am Andreas Rohrmann and have been living here in Johanneshof since the beginning of the year and also do a small side job for my old company. I am Christopher Eger-Büssing.

[23:09]

I have been living in Johanneshof for six months. I am a doctor and psychotherapist and I still work during the day in a community practice near Johanneshof. I am Moonen, I come from Holland and I was a teacher and what I do now I don't know exactly. I am Moonen, I was born in Holland, I was a teacher and what I am doing now I don't know exactly. I am Nat Veiter, I come from Holland, I live with another Beate. My name is Gerhard Weischede. I live in Göttingen and I'm trying to build a small sangha there and bring the Dharma to Göttingen. My name is Hogan.

[24:25]

We began a Zendo in Highland, in Holland, last year. And I'm working in the home care with psychiatric patients, alcoholics, people who are My name is Otmar Engel. I'm living here at Johanneshof and partly also in Berlin. Not so often. Yeah, that's too bad. My name is Otmar Engel and I live here at Johanneshof and also sometimes in Berlin. My name is Fritz. Not Felix. Fritz, yes. I'm a mechanic, and I live near Freiburg in Stauffen.

[25:28]

I'm retired. Mm-hmm. My name is Susanne Easterlein. I'm here with my father, who's currently taking care of my little baby. And actually he should be here by now, but we're just moving. So we're moving to the USA and he's already dead and can't come. That's why. Yeah. My name is Susanne Esterlein, and here is my father. He's taking care of my baby Emily, or my husband's baby Emily. And my husband wanted to be also here, but he couldn't since we are moving to the United States, and he already had to be there. Where in the United States? Houston, Texas. Houston, Texas. Yeah, I may have some special work for him.

[26:34]

To undermine, no. So how long will you be there? Three or four years. Oh my goodness. Okay. Yes. Yes. My name is Irene. I live in Johannesburg since the end of February. My name is Bernd Flach. I come from Basel. I work with people, in the evening, as a therapist. And work is an important part of my life. I work with people mainly, therapeutically, and the work is a very important part of my practice. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I'm Janette Schulz. I've been living alone with my two children for some time now, in Bielefeld. I work as a psychotherapist and mainly as a homeopath.

[27:39]

My name is Jörg Fromm, I come from Munich and work there as a biologist, mainly with plants. I am Andreas Hormann and have been living here since the beginning of the year. Here we have a farm and I also do a small life job for my old company. I am Christoph Egger-Büssing. I have been living in Johanneshof for six months. I am a doctor and psychotherapist and I still work in a community practice near Johanneshof during the day. I am Munem. I come from Holland. And I was a teacher, and what I do now, I don't know exactly. I am Munem. I live in Holland. I was a teacher, and what I do now, I don't know exactly. I am Advaita. I come from Holland. I live with another priate. I have a little daughter, five years old.

[28:57]

I am a creative therapist and artist. My name is Gerhard Weischilde. I live in Göttingen and try to build a small sangha there and bring the Dharma to Göttingen. My name is . We began a in Holland last year. And I'm working in the home care with psychiatric patients and alcoholics, people who are I have a hard time dealing with daily life. Yes, my name is Aydin and I come from Holland.

[30:05]

Since last year, we have tried to build a temple in Haarlem. I work with people with difficulties in the field of psychiatric drugs and alcohol. They just have a hard time in life. My name is Dieter Hendricks and I come from Leer in East Triesland. My family has a shipping business with me for American vitamins. And they are happy to take over more and more so that I can follow up on more time for my practice. I come from Lern, Friesland. That's my name. And we have... We... May order business.

[31:10]

We? May order business. May order business for American Vitamins. And my family is... I found a source. My family is taking more and more care of it so I can have more time practicing. Okay. My name is Janine Lafayette. I live in... He's taken too many American vitamins. Adi, Ulrike? Yes, my name is Ulrike Dino. I lived in Creston for five or six years, and then I was in Boulder for half a year in the new center, Cary Hardy, and now I've been in Berlin for half a year.

[32:12]

Let's see how I do. My name is Valentin Kiyo. I am a musician and teacher of Alexander Technik. My name is Lona Roth-Jokisch, I live in Kassel with Günther Cezanne and I work as a psychotherapist and as a psychotherapist. My name is Alexander Leutloid, I am a retired psychotherapist in Wetteln-Hauten. I am married and live separately from my wife and children. My name is Alex. I'm 24 years old and I'm from Klingau. I'm still married, father to son.

[33:26]

I'm separated from my wife and my children, live close by, and I'm also living in a long-distance relationship. I try to manage all this with my practice. So your practice might be needed. Virgin. The practice is needed inside. Yeah.

[34:42]

A hard time dealing with daily life. Yes, my name is Aydin and I come from the Netherlands. Since last year, we have tried to build a temple in Haarlem. I work with people with difficulties with psychiatric drugs and alcohol. They just have a hard time in life. My name is Dieter Hendricks and I come from Leer in East Triesland. My family has a shipping business with me for American vitamins.

[35:46]

And they are doing their best to take over more and more, so that I can look forward to more time for my practice. I come from Leanne, Friesland. That's my name. And we have... We... May order business. We? May order business. May order business for American vitamins. And my family is... I found a source. My family is taking more and more care of it, so I can have more time practicing. Okay. My name is Janine Lafayette. I'm from India. He's taken too many American vitamins. Adi, Ulrike?

[36:57]

Yes, my name is Ulrike Dillow. I lived in Crestholm for five or six years and then I was in Boulder for half a year in the new center, Cary Harding, and now I've been in Berlin for half a year and I'm looking forward to getting through there. My name is Valentin Kiyo. I am a musician and teacher of Alexander Technik. My name is Jonaort Jokic, I live in Kassel with Günther Cezanne and I work as a psychotherapist and as a psychotherapist. My name is Alexander Leutloid, I graduated as a psychotherapist in Brecht. I am married, separated from my wife and children, but I am free. And I also live in a tangle relationship, over a relatively large distance.

[38:03]

And I try to live it all. From the practical point of view, I have a good way of living. My name is Alex. I'm still married, have two sons. I'm separated from my wife and my children, live close by. And I'm also living in a long-distance relationship. I try to manage all this with my practice. So your practice might be needed. Virgin. Yeah.

[39:43]

So I'd like to, I don't know quite what kind of question, how to ask kind of question, but I'd like to hear from you what your sense or idea of practice and Buddhism is. What's, yeah, so we'll start again with you. What do we think we're doing when we're practicing? It doesn't have to be a complicated answer. I just want to get a feeling for what we think we're doing together. Maybe the most important thing for me to understand what reality is.

[41:24]

Most important might be for me to understand what reality, it's the same word in German, and reality is. And for that I try, I think, especially to understand And therefore especially I try and need to understand what my emotional and my psychological mind to understand that. And to try to understand in the most subtle way to understand that. And how does... And how does practice or what aspects of practice or how does practice help you know something about reality or relate to your psychotherapeutic work?

[42:44]

I think it is a continuous process and very important for me to de-identify myself with different aspects of my life and identities. especially psychological structures, to help my clients to go in that direction, to learn to disidentify. Therefore I have to know very subtle how I function, how my mind functions, and I try to study that. And very helpful for me is to work with wisdom phrases so that we can disidentify or identify with another attitude or view.

[44:14]

It helps me to disidentify from my own mind structure. So would you say that your practice is zazen or sitting sometimes? and mindfulness and wisdom phrases, something like that. So I'd like to, I don't know quite what kind of question, how to ask kind of question, but I'd like to hear from you what your sense or idea of practice in Buddhism is.

[45:16]

What's, yeah, so we'll start again with you. What do we think we are doing when we are practicing? It doesn't have to be a complicated answer. I just want to get a feeling for what we think we're doing together. Maybe the most important thing for me... Most important might be for me to understand what reality, it's the same word in German, and reality is.

[46:26]

And therefore especially I try and need to understand what my emotional and my psychological mind to understand that. And to try to understand it as subtly as possible. And to try to understand in the most subtle way to understand that. And how does... How does practice help you know something about reality or relate to your psychotherapeutic work? I think it is a continuous process and very important for me to de-identify myself with different aspects of my life and identities.

[48:12]

especially psychological structures, to help my clients to go in that direction, to learn to disidentify. Therefore I have to know very subtle how I function, how my mind functions, and I try to study that. And very helpful for me is to work with wisdom phrases for that, so I can disidentify or identify with another attitude or view. It helps me to disidentify from my old time structure. So would you say that your practice is zazen or sitting sometimes? and mindfulness and wisdom phrases, something like that.

[49:50]

Yes, more or less. Okay. There are facets altogether, I can say that. I'm reading very much. Buddhist texts? Yes. And does the reading help you too? Yes. Reading helps a lot too. Yes. Peter? I associate Buddhism with the idea or hope to free myself from dependencies, ego. So my hope is to practice to get rid of dependencies, ego-dependencies especially.

[50:58]

And at the moment when I was a little busy with the Abhidharma, And at the moment we are sort of getting closer to do with the Abhidharma? I understood that everything is not only in motion, as Herakles said, So I started understanding that, probably like Heraclitus said, that not only is everything in movement, but that you can give a certain direction to that movement. And I continue to have to fight the feeling that to give a direction to that movement is a sort of superhuman effort.

[52:08]

You could do it. Nico? In the widest sense, I think what What we're doing is trying to reduce suffering for ourselves and others by gaining insight. And by insight I mean to see how we actually exist in the way we establish and interact with reality. We establish reality and interact with reality. and really see into the specifics of how we participate in establishing reality every moment. And through that seeing that there's a variability in the way we can do it, and what's the possibility of becoming more free.

[53:21]

In this participating, what means do you use to participate? What means? We were all participating. being consciously present in my active functioning, in the way I perceive things and the way I psychologically process my experience. And I can, to different degrees, I can be present to that. Present at the moment I represent my experience could then muster. Okay. Since I have been practicing, I try to think a little more and to perceive more in myself and especially in myself, in myself.

[54:36]

Since I practice, I try to think less and to perceive more in myself, but also around me. Achtsamkeit und auch diese Sätze sind, ist das deine Praxis? Kannst du das sagen? Yes, more or less. Okay. There are facets altogether, I can say that. I'm reading very much. Buddhist texts? Yeah. And does the reading help you too? Yes. Yeah. Peter? I associate with Buddhism especially the idea or hope of liberation from dependencies and ego.

[55:47]

My hope is to practice to get rid of dependencies, ego-dependencies especially, And at the moment we are sort of getting closer to the Abhidharma. And so I started understanding that, probably like Heraclitus said, that not only is everything in movement, but that you can give a certain direction to that movement. And yes, I always have to fight with the feeling that this movement, this direction requires superhuman effort.

[57:00]

And I continue to have to fight the feeling that to give a direction to that movement is a sort of superhuman effort. You could do it. Nico? In the widest sense I think what we're doing is trying to reduce suffering for ourselves and others by gaining insight. And by insight I mean to see how we actually exist in the way we establish and interact with reality, we establish reality and interact with reality, and really see into the specifics of how we participate in establishing reality every moment.

[58:07]

And through that seeing that there's a variability in the way we can do it, and also the possibility of becoming more free. In this participating, how would you, yeah, what means do you use to participate? What means? Yeah. I mean, we're all participating, so. being consciously present in my active functioning, in the way I perceive things and the way I psychologically process my experience. And I can, to different degrees, I can be present to that. Present at the moment I represent

[59:12]

my experience within myself. Okay. Satsang. Since I practice I try to think less and to perceive more in myself but also around me. And to connect less and less this perception with given concepts. And so gelingt es mir ab und zu in gewisse Löcher zu tauchen, angenehme Hintergrundsgeist, könnte man dem sagen.

[60:16]

And so I succeeded again and again, sort of to drop into certain holes of sort of background space or mind. Und daraus erwächsten wir sowas wie Gluck. And from that grows something like a feeling of joy or blissfulness. I feel very supported or carried to know and also that I listen and read. That what we are talking about and what I practice has been developed by great people since a very long time.

[61:19]

That I can practice here together with others. And that is a feeling of joy or bliss, to be carried in that way. Yes. What you've said, four of you, let me say, there are certainly good ideas, but many people have such ideas. and it doesn't make much difference in their life. So how my... I would say that practice is how to make these good ideas have some effect in your life.

[62:20]

And so practice in that sense would be, you mentioned wisdom phrases, but I think that without zazen or mindfulness practice, some developed mindfulness practice, or the use of phrases in a particular way, it's very difficult to... have these ideas affect us. We all want to be more conscious, but then most people, you talk to anyone and they say they want to be more conscious, but they're not more conscious. So what makes the difference? That's part of the question I'm asking, so we can get a feeling for what practice is for each of us. Yeah. I don't know what I said. It is so that when you ask people, you can ask anyone, they all want more awareness. But I mean, it's about making it effective, making it effective, the good ideas that many have and that there are in general and that we all have. But how do we deal with that, so to speak? How do we make it effective? That's the essential thing.

[63:32]

Did you just did it okay? Because I was pretty long. It sounded all right to me. Okay. As an answer to this question, I would say that for me this practice of mindfulness and the practice of sitting are the most important means to reach this goal, to simply find a place in life that goes beyond the daily functioning. for me mindfulness practice and sitting practice helps me to get to a place above just more functioning in my life I am lucky that I have a job where I can practice all day but I think you can always I feel very lucky to have a profession where I can practice that every day, but actually I think we can practice it everywhere, anyway.

[64:40]

But would you say it helps you that your profession allows you also to continue and to develop your practice? It helps me very much. What are the given concepts? And to connect less and less this perception with given concepts. And so I succeed again and again sort of to drop into certain holes of sort of background space or mind. and out of that something like happiness grows. And from that grows something like a feeling of joy or blissfulness. I feel very carried away by the fact that I know and also read and hear again and again

[65:50]

I feel very much supported or carried to know and also that I listen and read. That what we are talking about and what I practice has been developed by great people since a very long time. and that I can practice here together with others. And this is also a kind of happiness, this endurance. And that is a feeling of joy or bliss, to be carried in that way. Yes. What you've said, the four of you, yeah, let me say this, they're certainly good ideas, but many people have such ideas, and it doesn't make much difference in their life.

[67:10]

I would say that practice is how to make these good ideas have some effect in your life. And so practice in that sense would be, you mentioned wisdom phrases, but I think that without zazen or mindfulness practice, some developed mindfulness practice, or the use of phrases in a particular way, it's very difficult to... have these ideas affect us. We all want to be more conscious, but then most people, you talk to anyone, and they say they want to be more conscious, but they're not more conscious. So what makes the difference? That's part of the question I'm asking, so we can get a feeling for what practice is for each of us. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, please. I don't know what I said. Did he just did it okay?

[68:19]

Because I was pretty long. As an answer to this question, I would say that for me this practice of mindfulness and the practice of sitting are the most important means to reach this goal, to simply find a place in life that goes beyond the daily functioning. Achtsamkeitspraxis und was noch? For me is it that mindfulness practice and sitting practice helps me to get to a place above just mere functioning in my life.

[69:22]

Ich habe das Glück, dass ich einen Beruf habe, wo ich das den ganzen Tag praktizieren kann. Aber ich denke, man kann es immer... I feel very lucky to have a profession where I can practice that every day, but actually I think we can practice it everywhere, anyway. But would you say it helps you that your profession allows you also to continue and to develop your practice? It helps me very much. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, in a way I'm asking you to help me too because I have to, you know, just this last few days I had to be in these kind of social events, you know, of people, you know, a baptism and things like that. So then there's a certain number of people that are curious, why is a Buddhist at a baptism? Why? Why is a Buddhist at a baptism? Yeah, so they come up to me and ask me, you know, about what is practice, you know.

[70:46]

I never know how to answer. Believe it or not, all these years I really don't know how to answer. If I just say we want to practice to understand ourselves better or understand our mind, they say, oh, I want to do that too. And they think they, in fact, they say, I already do that. And then I say, do you cross your legs and hope to die? That's a bad joke. We have an expression in English, to cross your heart and hope to die. A kid says, no, no, I cross my heart and hope to die, you know. Also ich kreuzige mich über meinem Herzen und hoffe zu sterben. Also Kinder sagen sowas. And so, you know, how do you make this transition and what's the difference between just wanting to be more conscious and actually being more conscious?

[72:03]

What's the difference? Und wie macht man den Übergang? Es geht darum, wie dieser Übergang stattfindet, inzwischen einfach nur bewusster sein zu wollen und auch bewusster zu sein nachher dann. Also dieser Übergang, darum geht es. Und wer hat denn? From the beginning, practice helped me to have an experience of connectedness. And at the moment it's a theme for myself, feeling connected to the family where I come from. Whereas at the same time through the practice and what I discovered there and what I learned there and what relationships and new relationships I formed, I also got to a more distance from the family where I come from.

[73:22]

And my experience in practicing is a very strongly bodily feeling, bodily experience. It makes me feel that I am changing through the practice and at the same time for me the practice is also a great failure again and again. I always fail because this connection is also incredibly strong, this old connection. To get into this new river, the Katharina, into this stream of ancestors that I discover through practice, this pendulum, that is for me a very strong, very strongly changed practice experience. To enter, what Katharina said, also this feeling of entering into the stream of the ancestors.

[74:33]

And to keep up or rediscover the old connectedness to my ancient family, my personal family. Yeah, I mean, in a way I'm asking you to help me too, because I have to, you know, just this last few days I had to be in these kind of social events, you know, of people, you know, baptism and things like that. So then there's a certain number of people that are curious, why is a Buddhist at a baptism? Why? Why is a Buddhist at a baptism? Yes, so they come up to me and ask me about what is practice.

[75:42]

I never know how to answer. Believe it or not, all these years I really don't know how to answer. If I just say we want to practice to understand ourselves better or understand our mind, they say, oh, I want to do that too. And they think they, in fact, they say, I already do that. And then I say, do you cross your legs and hope to die? That's a bad joke. We have an expression in English, to cross your heart and hope to die. A kid says, no, no, I cross my heart and hope to die, you know. And so, you know, how do you make this transition and what's the difference between just wanting to be more conscious and actually being more conscious?

[77:03]

What's the difference here? From the beginning, practice helped me to have an experience of connectedness. And at the moment, it's a theme for myself, feeling connected to the family where I come from. And at the same time, I think, for the most part, through the practice, to have me far away from the family from which I come from, led to a life that could discover and develop completely different relationships, completely different feelings than what I had ever learned.

[78:10]

Whereas at the same time through the practice and what I discovered there and what I learned there and what relationships and new relationships I formed, I also got to a more distance from the family where I come from. And my experience in practicing is a very strongly bodily feeling, bodily experience. allows me to feel that I am changing through the practice and at the same time for me the practice is also a great failure again and again. I always fail because this connection is also incredibly strong, this old connection. To get into this new river, the Katharina, into this stream of ancestors that I discover through the practice, this pendulum, that is for me a very strong, very strongly changed practice experience.

[79:20]

To enter, what Katharina said, also this feeling of entering to the stream of the ancestors. And to keep up or rediscover the old connectedness to my ancient family, my personal family. And that lets me sense or feel changes in my life. So when you say the practice, what, before you practiced and when you now would say the practice, what is the... What aspect of the practice, if you stop practicing, what would be stopped? What started when you started to practice? The experienceability of a moment.

[80:30]

How did you find the experience, the ability of the moment? There's no such word, but do you know why not? I open myself up through breathing practice. I let body drop. And that's in mindfulness or in zazen? So in zazen gave you the basis for opening up into your breathing. Because I'm also interested, you know, Zazen sometimes initiates us into practices.

[81:48]

Kind of gets us started, but then, you know, a lot of people, not you necessarily, I don't know, but a lot of people actually then don't do Zazen much. And so I'm wondering how much Zazen itself is... An essential part of the practice, or is Zazen just something that gets us started, or is it really mindfulness? We really do. I want to find out what we should study but I can't find out what we should study unless I know what we're actually doing.

[83:08]

And practice itself, I mean, The concept, the idea that being alive is a kind of practice itself is practice. And I would say, for instance, if I were to try to define what practice is... But now I'd say maybe it's knowing there are no answers. Knowing that there are no answers. If you live in the world as if there may be answers, you're probably not practicing.

[84:11]

But if you live in the world with an asking of questions and allowing those questions to evolve, that's probably practicing. So I would say just from... the front row here with is that practice and that lets me sense or feel changes in my life so when you say the practice before you practiced and when you now would say the practice what is the

[85:19]

What aspect of the practice, if you stop practicing, what would be stopped? What started when you started to practice? The experienceability of a moment. How did you find the experience, the ability of the moment? There's no such word, but do you know why not? I open myself up through breathing practice. I let body drop. And that's in mindfulness or in zazen?

[86:25]

So in zazen gave you the basis for opening up into your breathing. Because I'm also interested, you know, Zazen sometimes initiates us into practices. Kind of gets us started, but then, you know, a lot of people, not you necessarily, I don't know, but a lot of people actually then don't do Zazen much. And so I'm wondering how much Zazen itself is... An essential part of the practice, or is Zazen just something that gets us started, or is it really mindfulness? We really do. I want to find out what we should study

[87:42]

but I can't find out what we should study unless I know what we're actually doing. And practice itself, I mean, The concept, the idea that being alive is a kind of practice itself is practice. And I would say, for instance, if I were to try to define what practice is... But now I'd say maybe it's knowing there are no answers. Knowing that there are no answers.

[89:04]

If you live in the world as if there may be answers, you're probably not practicing. But if you live in the world with an asking of questions and allowing those questions to evolve, that's probably practicing. So I would say just from... The front row here is that practice is, I'm assuming, zazen, mindfulness, wisdom phrases, and then the concept of practice itself. is also part of practice.

[90:06]

So that's four aspects of practice. So then we can, if we start to study, we can say in what way to study, develop or establish these four aspects of practice. And, you know, if you... As Gunther mentioned, using wisdom phrases, which I think are... If not essential, very close to essential in practice.

[91:22]

If they're not essential, if they're not the most essential thing, they're very close to being the most essential. And we can make up practice phrases for ourselves, wisdom phrases for ourselves. But in actual fact, when you're doing that, you're doing something like making up a new sentence in Deutsch or in English. You couldn't make up a new sentence in Deutsch or in English unless there's some centuries of German and English prior to us. So practicing together, we're already in the midst of a kind of language that we...

[92:23]

probably don't recognize is a language with assumptions already in it. In other words, just very quickly, if it It took centuries, yeah, 2,000 years or so, really, to come up with the idea of wisdom phrases. A certain understanding of how the mind works. And why phrases would work.

[93:39]

And how those phrases are distillations of whole schools of teaching. They're kind of... Well, there's all these teachings, but all these teachings are assumed in this one phrase. So if we bring this one phrase into us in a certain way, those teachings will unfold. Yeah, so... We're in the midst of something by practicing together. That works. Works like putting gasoline in the tank.

[94:42]

In a car works. Yeah, but somebody has to know how the engine works. This is, I'm assuming, Zazen, mindfulness, wisdom phrases, and then the concept of practice itself. is also part of practice. So that's four aspects of practice. So then if we start to study, we can say in what way to study develop or establish these four aspects of practice.

[95:45]

And, you know, it's good to mention using wisdom phrases. which I think are, if not essential, very close to essential in practice. If they're not essential, if they're not the most essential thing, they're very close to being the most essential. Yeah, and we can make up practice phrases for ourselves, wisdom phrases for ourselves. But in actual fact, when you're doing that, you're doing something like making up a new sentence in Deutsch or in English.

[96:49]

You couldn't make up a new sentence in Deutsch or in English unless there's some centuries of German and English prior to us. So practicing together, we're already in the midst of a kind of language that we... probably don't recognize is a language with assumptions already in it. In other words, just very quickly, if it It took centuries, 2,000 years or so, really, to come up with the idea of wisdom praises.

[98:21]

A certain understanding of how the mind works. And why phrases would work. And how those phrases are distillations of whole schools of teaching. They're kind of... Well, there's all these teachings, but all these teachings are assumed in this one phrase. So if we bring this one phrase into us in a certain way, those teachings will unfold. Yeah, so... Yeah, we're in the midst of something by practicing together, you know, that, yeah, works.

[99:31]

Works like putting gasoline in the tank. And your car works. Yeah, but somebody has to know how the engine works. And so forth. So maybe we'll stop after David. Um... my approach to Buddhism was coming in contact with sitting still. And in this sitting still, it was important to me to feel that it develops a kind of trust.

[100:41]

And I decide is not the right word, but I somehow decided that this stillness is some kind of an important thing in daily life that I often don't see, but it's always there. And this trust and the experience of stillness led to a kind of acceptance of what happens in the world, what happens in the moment. And I've... This feeling grew up that I want to cultivate this because it showed me a different way to be in connection not only with practicing people but also with other people.

[101:50]

which ultimately gave me a new connection to people, a new view of being together with people, not only in the practice, but also in others, and that I wanted to cultivate this, and for me it was important to cultivate something like this, simply put, to cultivate silence, And in a small sense, I could say, I somehow felt that I wanted to cultivate this phenomenon of stillness and everything that grows out of this basic experience in the beginning. Sounds good. Okay. Thank you very much. So maybe we'll stop after David. My approach to Buddhism was coming in contact with sitting still.

[102:59]

my access to Buddhism was through the experience of sitting still. And in this sitting still, it was important to me to feel that the development can't be trusted. In this sitting still, I developed a trust for this sitting still. And I... decide is not the right word, but I somehow decided that this stillness is some kind of important thing in daily life that I often don't see, but it's always there. And this trust and the experience of stillness led to a kind of acceptance what happens in the world, what happens in the moment and I've

[104:37]

So this feeling of trust led me into the silence and also into the phenomenon of acceptance. which ultimately also gave me a new connection to people, a new view of being together with people, not only such practitioners but also others, and that I wanted to cultivate this, and for me it was important to cultivate something like this, simply put, to cultivate silence, And in a small thing I could say, I somehow felt that I want to cultivate this phenomenon of stillness and everything that grows out of this basic experience in the beginning. Sounds good.

[105:40]

Okay, thank you very much.

[105:45]

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