I try to think about or make clear what I'm trying to do by giving you this, making these suggestions about specific ways to explore your body. Can you hear okay in the back? There's a kind of echo. It's okay? All right. In the ten... Are you all familiar with the ten ox-herding pictures? Anyway, they show somebody, some guy is looking for an ox. And it takes him a while to find it. And once he or she sights it, he gets a rope on it.

[01:26]

And after taming this ox a bit, or at least keeping track of it with the rope, Eventually he can let go of the rope and the ox can kind of wander about with the rope hanging down. Pretty soon this person is completely relaxed and the ox has wandered off and couldn't care less. And then the last picture is just a circle.

[02:31]

Both the ox and the person have disappeared. And we pay a lot of attention to the person and to the ox, but we don't pay so much attention to the rope. And the important thing about this rope or the story is that the last picture in which there's nothing is a picture of the rope. Because the story really is a shift from the rope to the field as the way of taking care of things. Does that make sense?

[03:33]

Do you understand? First he's trying to find the mind and he uses the rope. And rope usually is the rope of mindfulness, to tie yourself to things by your attention. And of course, it's good to just let go of the ox and say, you know, sayonara. But you should have translated it into Polish or something. But it also is that, not that he doesn't want to control the ox anymore, but he doesn't have to control the ox anymore.

[04:40]

And it's not just that the ox has become well behaved. It's the field of the ox has become enormous. So you're in a way not learning so much to control the ox, but to give the ox a bigger and bigger field. And this is the idea of emptiness. And may I say, Monica, what you brought up? This morning at breakfast, Monica brought up that she was a little, finds the idea of emptiness a little disturbing in contrast to her trying to make a life that's stable and so forth.

[05:53]

Is that what you'd say? How would you put it? No, it's like, so the potential perception is divided by the colors. Do you want to say that in German? Do you want to say it in German? Yes, but that's what I want. . I like that line, forced into emptiness. I could write a memoir of my life, forced into emptiness. How can you force something into emptiness?

[06:59]

Every time you pushed it would expand. But it is a good question. And it makes a distinction, I think, between practical teachings and fundamental teachings. But before I talk a little more, I'd like to... See if anybody here has something you'd like to say. Yes. You just talked about the field. And I have the experience in breathing sometimes that the breath becomes very clear.

[08:18]

And there is a lot in the space. And then I feel different rhythms. Sometimes it feels like a many-legged people there are breathing a thing that feels inside me or them. And so sometimes I'm not quite sure if I can trust this. Hmm. Do you want to say that in German? Sometimes the breath becomes very clear and it opens up very far into the corner, into a larger inner space.

[09:32]

And it feels like there are many different rhythms in this room. And it feels like there are many people, or whatever, breathing in this room. What part can't you trust? Sometimes I think it's crazy. Do you have so many people breathing inside you?

[10:37]

Well, the air can get pretty bad sometimes. Well, if you attach to those kinds of formations, they can be a little crazy. They might be. But if you just make the field give them more and more air to breathe in, there's usually no problem. But it is the distinction between getting attached to the objects of perception, exterior or interior, and creating a field for your perception. On the one hand, we have to deal with this difference between the object of perception, external and also internal objects, and we can cling to them, so to speak, or bind to them.

[11:39]

On the other hand, we can simply concentrate on the field and make this field bigger and bigger, and then all these images have space in it. In this, yes, go ahead. I have difficulties with this word field. So in her case, or in the case of inner or outer objects, you just mean, for example, to give them space to breathe. Not to see just this, but to see a bit around. Yeah, that's part of what I mean. Changing your nostril, Brie? So what Monica brought up is actually a very old debate within Buddhism. And it took many centuries before it became pretty clear how to... how to express this distinction in a way that wasn't repressive.

[12:55]

And this is part of that expression. It's a famous remark of Tilopis. It used to be on the door of the Hartford Street Zen Center in San Francisco, inside the bathroom door. So whenever you were there you had to watch it for a long period of time. But also when you're confronted with the fact that everything changes, which is another way of saying emptiness, it should be somewhat difficult or painful. If it isn't, you haven't noticed what it's about. So you take it too easily, you haven't understood it.

[14:14]

It's like illness or old age or death. What do they say? Old age is not for sissies. But practice is the effort to take this recognition of emptiness and changing as our fundamental state. and in effect recognize it as the, we could say, the most essential expression of being alive and the joy of being alive.

[15:33]

Okay, something else? I mean, you came, all of you, excuse me for giving you a little hard time, you came to this seminar and you have no anticipation, as it says here, so there's nothing you'd like me to talk about. As it said, the silent ones perform a service by creating a field for the more outspoken ones, but Somebody has to say something so the silent ones fulfill their function.

[16:35]

The what experience? Yeah, that's one of the steps, yes. So this is rather, this practice which I'm trying to bring to your attention is rather intimate and I can't do it without your help. I need some feeling from you for what this practice means to you or what you feel. Because I'm not sitting here knowing something and I'm passing on to you.

[18:30]

We have to create a field together for me to teach something. If we don't create the field together, then I can do something simple. This morning I had the impression by seeing this prayer as a wondrous feat When chanting, you mean? The question would be whether you know something about this field effect or the power of the mantra. that the field here has become very dense.

[19:37]

It was really noticeable how, for me, I don't know how strongly it has worked. And the question would be, in the color of this mantra singing, So your question is when to use such mantras or to Yeah, well, because the whole thing has a connection with the Shadrach, with the genetic fields, you see. So it's a question which for the moment is extremely interesting, and at the same time I have a feeling that it's something which for a spiritual experience is of great importance.

[20:44]

In fact, it's always in India and wherever in Thakurism. So you see, there must be something. And if you want to create something new here, it's fine to get into touch here with the lineage. Mm-hmm. Yeah. [...] And what were you feeling?

[21:56]

Yes? When I first opened, I sat at home listening and being with it. And then I got into the meaning of the words, and I had to cry, and I thought, kind of too much to put so many words one on the other, just one word would be enough to explore it and bring it to life, make it a little bit. And this came, and the next, and the next, and I thought, It's all, it's all, and I wanted to just jump in, and kind of fight it, and then I decided to go on an adventure, and go, and say, stop, stop, and I thought, okay, let's go, because I wanted to go on.

[23:11]

So, of course, I ask the question, where am I? I know I am all, and I am nothing. And I know I am filled, and this world is filled, and where am I going? Where am I in all this? There are so many different directions coming in. organize it, all of that, and now it's not possible. So, what's going on? Anyone else? Any reaction to the chanting this morning? Eric? Yeah. I can just maybe, yes, especially when I meditate, sometimes I can see from outside what happens to myself inside.

[24:19]

So I just see things happening outside and I also see feelings in other people and I know this is connected with me. But if I'm alone, then there's nothing in me that could heal. So I ask him, how can I create with someone that can even heal? Or is it not mesmerizing? Yeah. Because I've always done so many people have so nice experiences when I've done that. Anyone else? Yes. My first thing during the seminar is to find a way to keep my practice alive during the year.

[25:31]

And I find talking, caring, this perspective. But the problem I see is my body is, I think my body sometimes gets very lazy. It doesn't want to be alive in this way. I like it, but on the other hand, I don't like it, it's too much. So... This way you mean practicing? Yeah. Yeah. A friend of mine read my third of the manuscript of the book I'm working on. It was actually a... former protege of Paul Tillich, the Protestant theologian. And he wrote, he went through the text for me. And by about the 40th, 30th or 40th page he wrote, he wrote a note that says, okay, okay, I've started sitting.

[26:34]

Okay, okay, I've started sitting. Then about the 60th or 70th page he wrote this long little story on the back of one of the pages. He said after working on the text he went out jogging. And Paul's a bit overweight and kind of, you know, it's not his thing to jog. And he realized while he was jogging that he was surrounded by a lethargy shield. And he could barely see over it as he was jogging. He said, I see, this is the shield that's kept me from doing zazen all these years.

[27:43]

I know I should do it, but yet this lethargy takes over. I think actually something like that does happen, there's a kind of lethargy that sets in. I remember you saying some years ago that in Buddhism there is no such thing as a concept of naturalness. Am I quoting you correctly? And here on this floor, I have let my breath into the natural state. That's question one. Second question, in connection with Christina's, I usually find it harder to keep up my practice during the year, while we are not here, when I'm ill or when I'm unwell in general, which means that I haven't reached the state yet where the southern house you need to overcome the difficulties.

[28:54]

On the contrary, the difficulties get the better of me and I can't do the southern when I'm not well. Yeah. I have the same problems. So I make sure everywhere I go there's a group of people waiting to help me sit. Yeah, really one has to work on one's conviction and intention to practice. You have to nourish that in some way, plus you just have to do it. And particularly when you're sick.

[30:00]

Yeah, it's a good time to sit, actually. I mean, if you're well enough to kind of prop yourself up without a bedpan underneath you. And even for 10 minutes or 15 minutes is enough for you. And I would suggest in relation to what Giorgio brought up, if you have a feeling for a certain thing, that you incorporate it in your daily practice. I'd incorporate it, but I'd under-incorporate it. In other words, incorporate it not at the level of your first enthusiasm or interest, but in a small way.

[31:10]

Because a year from now you might feel like Monica. And so it's better to incorporate things in a small way that you can continue and have a feeling of it rather than do too much. Mm-hmm. So you could take this chant and chant it once a week or once a day or something if you wanted. Was reading it in German part of what, Monica, brought the words home to you? Was reading it in Deutsch part of what brought it home to you? Yeah, by the third language it was good.

[32:19]

Yes. For me, it was chanting in Japanese, somehow the shimmy feeling came back. And in English, it wasn't coming from here, it was more up and it was... a little more here. So it's really interesting. It's just interesting, yes. And Eric, when you start the chant, I think you need to start in a little higher place so more people can be included. And chant in a little more of a natural voice. And the... Yeah, and the reason for that is that particularly in a situation like this where we're not doing it regularly all the time, you want to give lots of territory for people to come in in their usual way of thinking and speaking.

[33:31]

Does that make sense? So you don't change the... Instead of saying... More of a kind of normal speech rhythm than stretched out like you were in Sesshin or something. Hmm? What's the pity? Making sense. Well, it's not what I'm saying, I think. What? No. According to the tradition is to do it so most of the people around you can feel included. That's the tradition. So like if you imitate the way it's done in a monastery and you're not in a monastery, you're not doing it in a traditional way. You're imitating a tradition out of context.

[34:36]

Okay, yeah. I find it very hard to bring new things into the practice, like breathing techniques. In my satsang, to me, it seems like a big pot of stew, where you may throw things in, but it is the stew that works in it. The feeling of my satsang is quite stable. It has a certain style. It's very nice to do interesting things.

[35:45]

I don't need to hear your questions in German, so if you don't want questions repeated in German, it's okay with me, but if anybody wants them, you have to say so. It's all right just in English, the discussion? Okay. That's good. I mean, it's good if you could put new things in the pot and they disappear, that's fine. In fact, that's what I'd like to be happening with your zazen. Your zazen's got enough of its own feel that it absorbs things and only changes in very small ways. Okay. Well, let me try to say something a little bit about what we've been talking about.

[36:56]

What time is it? 10.45. So maybe it, should we take a break now or should we go on for a few minutes and then take a break or do something? What? Go on a little bit? Now again, there's practical practice and fundamental practice. And in terms of practical practice, practice in a more, how do I say, practical, practical, Practice at a practical level should be informed by the fundamental level.

[38:09]

Now when we practice this kind of exploration of your body, you're not trying to discover your body in some special way. Nor are you trying to discover your mind. Now, the distinction between awareness and consciousness is useful. In its roots too, the root of consciousness being to cut and the root of awareness being to watch. So when you explore your body, you're not trying to find some intrinsic reality.

[39:12]

You're really just developing the experience of watching. And you're, again, developing this kind of language in which you can notice the sensation of a settled state of mind. An inner sensation of a subtle state of mind that you don't grasp. So in this statement of Tilopa's, no recollection, He means in practice you're not going back in the past trying to remember things.

[40:25]

Now, you may do that, but if you do that, that's at a more practical level of practice. So, you may at some point... remember all kinds of things, you know. And going through your, in your practice, if you start to sit regularly, at a certain point, it begins to loosen up your memory. And loosening up your memory, you may spend actually, say that you started a habit of sitting basically daily, I would say you may spend, after a year or two, you may spend then two or three years flooded with memories.

[41:30]

I don't mean other things won't happen, but quite often memories will come up. So... And then after a while, I would say after four or five years of practice, probably almost no memories come up. There's none left almost to come up. And partly when this happens, you're just becoming more familiar with yourself. But also you're loosening up the way you're put together. And part of this is you're loosening up your mind from memory.

[42:36]

So in a way we can say this ox, the reason you can't find the ox in the first pictures is because it's buried under a big pile of memory. And you can't even see the ox because he's in the form of memory. Okay, so you take this rope of mindfulness and you poke around in all these memories and pretty soon you find the ox and you kind of pull him out of the memories. So in a way you're loosening mind from memory. So it also says here no meditation, no examination. So in this, you know, when we study the body, we're not exactly examining or analyzing the body.

[44:09]

Now, again, as I said last night, you might do this for some medical purpose. Or at some practical level, it might help you to know certain things about your body or what you think or your memories. And that's fine to do. Some days you do some things, some days you do others. But the overall picture of your life isn't defined by what you happen to do this day or that day. You might be angry at your spouse some days, but the overall picture of your life is to have the joy of being with your spouse. So you're in this practice of examining our body, we're examining it really from the point of just observing.

[45:19]

And in the process of observing, you're loosening the mind up from the body. Now, you might take some exception with my language, mind and body are the same or very closely related. How can I say you're loosening your mind up from your body? But at a simple stage we have to think about it a little bit this way. Because the mind of, we're using the mind of the brain and the mind of intention and we're kind of joining that or making an effort and developing a kind of mind of the breath.

[47:05]

A kind of breath's mind. But also your stomach has a mind. And your lungs have a mind. There's a kind of awareness that arises from each organ, a kind of mind. And we're trying to loosen up our body so that the many minds of our body can be present. And essentially, this sense of... This word natural, it's a handy word in English, but basically this means, probably we can say three things today, uncorrected, unfabricated, and indeterminate.

[48:07]

So if everything is basically changing, reality is fundamentally indeterminate. So we probably shouldn't say reality, we should say actuality. So we notice the many acts of perception. the colors of the world, whatever, but you don't try to make them into a world. You notice the green of the trees, but you don't sort of make that into something other than the green of the trees. So the green of your shirt and dress and the green of the trees and the green you have on and so forth.

[49:27]

All these different greens exist. And one way of looking at them is just to see them. And the kind of mind that just sees them but doesn't format them is the mind that's most liberated or able to sense the world in its fullness. So one of the first steps is to become to awaken the mind of the body. So I'd like us to sit for a couple of minutes and then we'll take a break. And then after the break we will go more directly into practicing with this mind of the body.

[50:40]

And after the break we will start a little more directly in this exercise with our body. I wrote down these words here, so indistinguishable, relaxed, light, soft. I'm trying to give you some kind of guidance in how to... an overall feeling in practice. Okay. Now if we look at the koan... It says down at the bottom of the first page, you may sport with the line on the pole. The sport with the line on the pole means to fool around with it, to pull at it, to tug at it, or something like that.

[51:46]

without disturbing the clear waves. When you are doing that, the meaning is clear then. This is also the sense of fishing with a straight hook. In other words, when you just watch, you're not really trying to catch anything. You're fishing, but, you know, it's... Anyway, as I said, you're not trying to catch anything. Why don't you... Could you bring up what you said to me just before? Yes. I have a few memories of my last ten years, almost in the form of written signs.

[53:00]

And I said that I was inspired by you, because I actually wanted to do Sardinian. And that came wonderfully in between. And where I am writing this now, I don't know if it's going to happen. Now, two very important points came up in the conversation with him. One is, he said, all these memories come up so much that I even felt I was writing them down inside me. And he said, I wanted to go back to Zazen, but all these memories were there. So the first point is, whatever comes up is zazen. If you say, oh, this is zazen and this is not zazen, then you're in your ordinary world of discrimination.

[54:02]

You may say, this has a feeling of... This feeling only arises in zazen and doesn't arise other times. So you think zazen is a feeling that only happens in zazen and doesn't happen other times. You feel zazen is something that's distinct from not doing zazen. So then you start identifying doing zazen with a feeling that's unique to zazen. And that's too narrow a definition. When you sit down, whatever happens is zazen. And sometimes it may be more satisfying or not, but that's zazen.

[55:12]

And recognizing that really is one of the things that makes zazen difficult. And the learning curve, as I said the other night, is very slow sometimes. We start practicing and we have some, oh, something happened. And then the learning curve flattens out. And it might be months or years. Very few people can get through that flat part. But then, but you can't say this is better than this. If you do, then again, zazen really won't work. You need a straight hook. Okay. The second point that came up in my discussion with him He said, well then, quite naturally or accurately, he said, well then you just stay with all these memories until you work through them.

[56:37]

At a practical level, that's true. But really, you're not working through anything. When you want to work through it, that's your ordinary mind. You're just in it. I like, do you want to work through the world? You're just in the world. So that's in the second part of the koan, if you look the other side. In the first paragraph there, under the commentary, Xuanzha heard of this and said, Ling Yung is quite correct indeed, but I dare say the old brother is not through yet.

[57:38]

See, this is saying, ah, his understanding is good, but he's still got things to work through. And so how will Ling Yu answer this? Now, customarily in Zen, you can't answer something unless your answer takes it to another step. So he says, are you through yet? Which is kind of throwing the ball back in his camp. So then Xuanzang says, now you've got it. Which means there's nothing to work through. Now, this could be a dangerous idea, I think, in us, and we could have brought this up in our psychotherapy.

[58:47]

You could say, I don't need psychotherapy, there's nothing to work through, Schwanzer himself said it. At a practical level, there's a lot to work through. But the best way to work through at a practical level is to have at a fundamental level the feeling there's nothing to work through. And bringing those two feelings together in one mind is the essential definition of Dzogchen, Zen, Mahamudra practice. And that's what the straight hook means. And this discussion we just had is washing our bowls. So this is what's called the yoga of daily life.

[60:06]

Because you presented me a bowl and we washed it together. And this may be boring to you. It's sort of common sense. But very much of practice exists on this level that you and I just wash some bowls together. What we washed out is the idea that there's something to be worked through. Just as in this koan, he washed out the idea that there's something to eat. So this question, have you had breakfast yet, exists on three levels. One level is, have you actually had something to eat? The second level is, have you realized something in your practice? And the third level is how you free from the need to realize something in your practice.

[61:21]

And the top level does not eliminate the first two. You still have to have that wonderful mint tea at the break or breakfast or lunch. And you also have to have the practices that lead to realization and loosening up your mind. But the most fundamental practice is to realize there's nothing to practice. But anybody who takes that as an excuse not to practice is stupid at a cosmic level. Okay, so I would like to sit for a little bit. A while. Let me see.

[62:31]

In fact, let's do something else. Do you have the colored pencils and things I brought? Could you bring them in the paper and pass them out? Okay, can we pass them out? Now I'd like you to feel, to notice the solidity of you. Start with some place obvious like the way your hip bones are against the cushion. And then see if you can feel the bone stretching down toward your knee. At least imagine it. in its shape and firmness. Feel your knee and bone stretching from your knee towards your foot bones.

[63:37]

You may almost have the picture of a skeleton sitting here. where the legs you can feel distinctly into the bones of the feet. Then have your mind's eye go back up these bones to where your bone is hitting the cushion. Now feel the shape of your pelvis. And then your backbone. one vertebrae at a time going up.

[65:21]

If you lose track with your mind, go back a few vertebrae and start up again. And then into the back of your neck and into your skull. And you can feel the back of your skull and then the sides. And then the plates at the top.

[66:37]

And then your forehead. Down into your cheekbones. And the bones of your gums and teeth. And your nose. Into the eyebrows. Back down into your jawbone. And your chin. And into your neck and into your shoulders.

[67:50]

And the several bones of the shoulders. And the shoulder itself and the bones in your back, your wings. And then down into your upper arms. Your arms and your upper arms. monitor a lot of your experience.

[69:12]

The two bones of your upper arms are like two guardian figures that on either side of the altar of the torso. And they're always quite alert. And then into your elbows and the two bones of the forearms. And then the bones of your hands, your palm, your thumb and fingers. One set of hand bones on top of the other. And now the solidity of the, the solidity and softness too of the skin of the hands touching the legs.

[70:52]

And it makes you feel the solidity of the outside of the legs and ankles and the thighs. And it makes you feel the solidity of the outside of the legs and ankles and the thighs. And you feel the solidity of the whole of the legs, including the muscles and the skin and the bones. When you bring the mind's eye to the muscles, it feels a little different than when you brought it to the bones in your legs. You can feel the shape and the space of the muscles.

[72:03]

This is just a beginning in getting familiar with the solidity of you. Distinguishing muscles from bones. And the organs from muscles and bones. and the organs from each other. And maybe as in your drawing, there's a certain color or atmosphere to the interior of your body. Usually, usually pale colors. Mostly now you want to relax your mind.

[73:52]

You don't want to make this kind of effort for very long. Five or ten minutes is enough. And then see if you can let your mind and body be in a relaxed and undisturbed state. We've sported with the fishing line long enough. The meditation we did just before lunch Maybe I was a surgeon exposing your skeleton.

[75:04]

Or maybe I was teaching you to be your own surgeon. But anyway, it's quite delicate thing to do, to have a feeling of seeing into your body. And it needs some... Are you okay, Uli? And it needs some permission from you to do it. And I think that doing the drawing helped for us to do that.

[76:06]

So anyway, now I'd like to ask you, how did you feel about doing the drawing, or do you have any comments about it, or etc. ? Did you find you were drawing the front or the back? What? The front. Did anybody draw the back? Okay. Do you want to also translate the discussion? Yeah, well, as it goes. Okay. You look through. So it's both at once. Yeah. Yeah. The problem I have with drawings is that when I meditate I don't have so clearly the vision of colors.

[77:23]

For me it's different fields of sensitivity. I have parts which are sensitive and the other color is just softness also. Actually, I looked at some of your drawings just a little bit and I'd like to ask you questions. What's that? What's that? You don't have anything to say? It's the first time you've ever done that?

[78:34]

Me too. I drew a kind of robot. I'll show you my robot. I found it quite difficult. How did you feel the difficulty? Just difficulty drawing? I didn't know what really was the task. Just to paint something out of a feeling, that was very difficult. Because I tried to transfer what I feel in the different parts of my body and transfer it onto the paper. But I found it was very difficult from what other people did.

[79:43]

They just paint by feeling and not by exact. Do you want to do what else? Can't you make lines and signs and directions with... Yeah. And some people have a lot of movement. Christianes and Ulrikes are sort of dancing, doing a little jig. I had a little problem with a lot of it.

[80:53]

I decided at some point to become a head of a bank company. And when I looked at it, I thought that there was some part of it that I didn't feel good with. So by having to draw that thing and trying how it feels, this kind of feeling got more into consciousness. It was something I didn't look at. Was your experience too? Yes. That there were parts of your body you didn't see exactly or didn't feel good about? I think it's too much. Too much. Too much. It's also quite okay.

[82:02]

You mean too much came out or it was... It's too much, too much. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Revealing. Mm-hmm. I thought we'd start out with what you just felt as you

[83:31]

Whatever you did with the pencils, there's no rules. Back to childhood? Yeah, it's very playful. We might, I mean, one could imagine doing a drawing in your mind or in fact after sitting, because I want to go through the meditation on the five elements. And each one develops a little different kind of sensitivity. When we did the meditation on on solidity, sometimes called the earth element.

[85:04]

It's sometimes related to the perception of smell actually. Were you able to follow the Did what I was saying interfere? Did I go too slow or too fast? Or it would have been better if I had said nothing? Tell me what you think. I felt that something was missing. There were the hips and the shoulders. Yeah, I didn't get to the ribs. Yeah, I'm actually about to work with the floating ribs here and come up to the rib cage. Yeah, oh good.

[86:11]

Easier to feel the bones, yeah. As I said, you shouldn't do it too much. Sometimes it's sufficient to just explore your arm. And then just do regular meditation. And some other time, try to bring your feeling, say, from some place you can notice down into your foot, and that's enough. But over a period of some months, you might go through your whole body that way. You can also do it as a way of exploring the transition of waking to sleeping. Yes, I do not like it if there is any talking during meditation, so I find it disturbing to a certain extent.

[88:02]

And also I like, as Michael mentioned it with its tube, I like my sitting and I'm very reluctant to accept new things in sitting. Yes, I've heard the Viennese are very traditional. Because I don't know what I do when I'm sitting. I can't say what is happening. Yeah, no, I myself don't like guided meditations. I don't know what to do in a situation like this where I don't have much time with you. Anyone else? Yes. I didn't see it as guided meditation. I discovered in the last weeks I'm always in a hurry. So I enjoy to be very silent inside and have the calmness to explore. It was different.

[89:04]

It was not guided. It was like having the time and allowing myself to explore. Yeah, I don't actually think of it as guided meditation either. I think of it as a kind of exploration of one thing. Experimental? Well, it is a custom to speak during sassen sometimes actually, but not generally, not quite as extensively. Sometimes teachers give their entire lectures during sassen. Sorry.

[90:23]

I explore my body in the way that I have tried to do it with the last few days, but somehow I ended up with this. Yeah. Yeah, so I actually, I can see my body quite well, but it was low. I can see that I had no results when I finished. Then I asked myself, I'm just going to do this.

[91:52]

But the same way I have the subject, it is to me the poetry of the body as we said, so we can't all just sit on the same thing. That's all there is to it, right? Well, as you ask yourself a question, you might ask yourself a question during the drawing, you can ask yourself a question while you're sitting, like, what is emptiness there? And the more sensitive you are, such a question will reverberate through your body. It's not just an idea. And you can assume that whatever happens in your body or what occurs is in some way an answer. Assume. Assume. Assume.

[92:47]

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