So, I mean, two or three people came up to me and said we almost didn't come to the break because we couldn't stop discussing. That sounds pretty good. So, tell me something. Well, then don't tell me anything. Just before Gertrude Stein died, she was just about to die, and she leaned forward and lifted her head up and said, What is the answer?

[01:03]

No one said anything. So she put her head back down and she said, Then what is the question? And she perished. But you don't want to do that now or so, no? Well, no, but it reminds me of sweet Isan. There were a whole bunch of people around his bed, and he sat up and looked around and said, Is someone dying around here? And then he laid back down and died to answer the question. Okay. Oh, thank you, Gregor.

[02:30]

So you want to hear about the loop or what? Anything you want. I mean, I'm... I spoke about... Ich habe die... diese... festgestellt, dass in... in meiner Zen-Praxis ich genau auf die... mich nie auf bestimmte Punkte fokussiert habe. Es hieß genau... Letting the body and mind fall and not focusing. I didn't have anything tangible that I could practice with. I noticed that in my Zen practice I've never focused on particular points before. The instruction was always drop body and mind and don't focus on anything in particular. And so I didn't have anything like this that I had practiced before. Okay.

[03:33]

Well, you what? So therefore I couldn't really find very much in myself for this topic. Okay, well then just to keep, why don't you try it out and later we'll talk about it. You know, this is not something you can understand exactly. Of course you can understand the idea of it, but that takes about a tiny fraction of a second. But you have to try it out. Not just you, anybody has to try it out. So I mean that probably the easiest for most of us is the spine.

[04:38]

So you develop the habit of keeping attention, resting in the spine as a whole or as part of it, etc. ? And then you notice if you can do that. So that you're kind of a walking around spine. And then you notice if you can do it. How it affects your perception. Can you say it? I think you need to say something about perception. Well, just say perception. And what you can... If I say something, then I start making the shoe fit.

[05:54]

Yeah, you don't really experiment. You just notice what I suggested you notice. Now, if we were all living here together, I could, you know, next week or a couple weeks from now, I could give you some hints. But since I've heard almost all of you intend to, the largest percentage of you, intend to abandon me on Sunday. Aber weil ich gehört habe, dass fast ihr alle oder zumindest ein Großteil von euch planen, mich am Sonntag zurückzulassen oder zu verlassen. Gregor is not abandoning me on Sunday, so you can leave while I tell them some things and then you can come back.

[06:59]

Aber Gregor, der verlässt mich ja nicht. Also könnt ihr alle weggehen, während ich den hierbleibenden noch was erzähle. Und dann könnt ihr aber wiederkommen. Okay. So one thing I think you can notice is how it stabilizes the experience of the body. Okay. And what's so interesting... And one of the reasons for the distinction of body, speech, and mind is three more categories that are targets of attention. It begins to stabilize the attentional the inner attentional field, as a series of appearances.

[08:10]

I can say a series of appearances that you just accept. So in one sense there's a kind of an equality in what's accepted. You just accept them all the same. Und in gewisser Weise ist da eine Art Gleichheit in dieser Akzeptanz. Du akzeptierst alles auf die gleiche Art und Weise. But of course there's a process underneath process of choice going on.

[09:13]

So you notice some appearances more distinctly than others. So you observe those appearances. They not only appear, you observe them. And again, etymology, ob is to, and serve is to save. So the sense is you're saving them and even guarding them. Like an observer may guard somebody. So this is also a way to understand a one-pointedness.

[10:25]

Because by simply stabilizing observation, stabilizing attention in the spine, And discovering how to intensify the presence of the spine. This becomes a stabilization of the body. And this stabilization of the body then stabilizes the mind. And you can much more then establish, or you define, is established almost through the spine, a continuum of attention.

[11:48]

A continuum of attention, which is a sequence of appearances. So, as I've been saying the other day, you begin to... you're located in the activity of appearance itself. You're located within the boundaries of the activity itself. So you're not thinking about other things. You just find your attention resting in appearance itself. In the activity of appearance. Now, the point of this afternoon's session is not for me to give another lecture.

[12:54]

Did you trick me? All right, good, thanks. Voodoo? Since you spoke about locating... And like yesterday when you described how when you listened in the background to our discussion here and you felt reminded of your first years of practicing with Suzuki Roshi. What I would find interesting is the locations, the locations that I suddenly feel reminded of.

[14:23]

Oh, please. Because, for example, you just mentioned one-pointedness. For example, you just mentioned one-pointedness. And immediately I was at the place where I heard this for the first time, which was in a sashin in Haus der Stille. Was I there too? You have been there too. Oh, good. So you were transported back. And of course that's a memory of the funnily shaped Zendo and also of all the old trees and the little ponds and so forth, yeah. And also it was remembering how difficult it was for Ulrike to translate this word, one-pointedness.

[15:30]

Das wird zwar auch in Büchern als Einspitzigkeit übersetzt. And even in books it's translated as the German word Einspitzigkeit. Das hat ja was mit dieser punktuellen Verortung auch zu tun. And that also has something to do with this punctuation, the punctuating location. Aber das deutsche Wort Einspitzigkeit ist irgendwie sehr seltsam. But the German word Einspitzigkeit is really weird. Yes, I wouldn't know. And then suddenly, I don't know from whom, the idea came up, because the way it was described was not as intuitive as what we associate with such a word. And then somebody had the idea, because the way you described it, the German word Einspitzigkeit has this sharp point. I think Ulrike or someone came up with the idea of, let's call it Einstufigkeit.

[16:47]

Oh, this was hard to translate. Bluntedness. What? One bluntedness? Yeah, well, why not? And then I had these two options, Einspitzigkeit and Einstümpfigkeit. And for some reason this word Einstümpfigkeit, which is kind of a joke in German, but a good one, that had a lot more to do with awareness. Oh, good. But really such a memory, and that comes up again and again, The Ulrich Schmidt, [...] we suddenly realized, we were together, our first Sechim was already Maria Lach and I can't remember at all, because there were 50 people, but that was suddenly a location in a Sechim that, I don't know, 25 years ago. And also, like the other day when Ulrich Schmidchen was here, we spoke and we found out that our first session together was already in Maria Laar.

[18:13]

And I can't remember him because there were like 50 people there. 52, I think. But there was only enough room for 25. Yeah. But what fits from my experience is, if you see this punctuality more or bring the whole thing to a point, is experimenting with Nutra. Okay. But what I am finding is that when bringing things to this one point, this pointedness, is to experiment with mudras. Yes, as we normally think and as the Buddha in the Sendo thinks.

[19:17]

The way that we normally hold it or the way that the Buddha holds the mudra and the zendo. And that is very clearly stated. It is only the holding of the hands. But it arises from a slightly changed hand posture, a different orientation. And that's very much a pointedness because it's just the holding of the hands but changing the hands a completely different location appears. When you imitate that particular mudra. Sometimes I try it. But these are flat. It's only the forefinger. It's like Like that, yes. Or this other grip. The Thai Buddha statues sit there very often. They have one hand like this and one hand like this. The earth testifying posture.

[20:22]

And only with two fingertips to the earth and suddenly, and that is really then brought to the point somehow, but it is suddenly a completely different location. And this, when you mentioned this, I tried this out, and to have this hand here, it's a completely different location. Suddenly the earth becomes like a witness. That's the idea. Das ist die Idee davon. And this is like bringing it to the point that it's just those two fingers touching the earth. And these are kind of playing around with it and experimenting. Yeah. It's amazing how, I mean, even though it's obvious, it's still amazing how subtle the body is.

[21:46]

Obwohl das offensichtlich ist, es ist erstaunlich, wie subtil der Körper ist. And it becomes more subtle when you lessen the cognitive and physical confusion. Und der wird noch subtiler, wenn man die kognitive und die körperliche Verwirrung vermindert. I mean, that Buddha in the Zendo, as some of you know anyway, is even my oldest friend in this room. Because it used to be in a shop exactly opposite of a Japanese restaurant where I ate regularly in the early 60s. Weil der mal in einem Laden war, direkt gegenüber von einem Restaurant in San Francisco, wo ich früher oft gegessen habe.

[22:51]

And I like the Buddha because the Amida, it's an Amida Buddha, Amitabha, because their hands are a little bit out of place. They're not directly straight. In den 60ern oft gegessen habe und ich mag diesen... Wait, you said Amida, why did you say Amitabha? It's the same. Oh, oh. Yeah, so I actually sat for a year or many months of a year this way because of that Buddha in about 61 or something like that. Yeah, and so anyway, the Buddha was... And I was sitting at a table and I could see straight through to the shop which shared the same entryway and that Buddha was there. Yeah, and then I was in many years later, just to finish the anecdote,

[23:57]

I don't know how many years later, 20 maybe. I was in the Fairmont Hotel in San Francisco at a Gorbachev Foundation conference where I was giving a talk. And I walked back And I walked through the lobby and I saw this Buddha in the lobby. And I took a step and I know that Buddha. So I came back and looked at it because of the posture. And then I went past it and realized, oh, I know this Buddha. And I went back and recognized this hand posture again. And I couldn't believe it. What was he doing in this? I mean, in the lobby of the hotel, there had been a different shop there, and somebody had opened an Oriental antique shop in the lobby of the Fairmont Hotel.

[25:16]

So I went back in, and I... said, hey, I know that Buddha. And I said, didn't it used to be, he said, yes, yes, I bought it from him and it's been in my living room for 20 years or something in Los Angeles and I decided to open a shop and so it's here. Probably a Buddha you couldn't get out of Japan at the present time, from the 1500s. So it was probably brought out of Japan by an American soldier during the Korean War.

[26:19]

Who knows, but anyway, probably then. And But he wanted quite a bit of money for it. Still a tenth of what it would have cost in Japan. And I came back to Johanneshof. And after about two weeks I couldn't sleep. I left my friend behind at the Fairmont Hotel. So I got up in the middle of the night, which was, you know, daytime in the West Coast.

[27:25]

And I said, you know, I'm sorry, I I really would like to buy that Buddha, but I don't know how I can afford it. He says, I've been hoping you'd call. I want you to have it. So he lowered the price by $10,000. It still seemed impossible, but I said, well, Could I get? No, I can't. So I called up, who did I call up, Atmar? Melita. Melita. Melita was going to loan us 25,000 euro. Marks. Marks. Marks for the purchase of this, and we didn't need it.

[28:28]

No, that. And we didn't need it, so I said, could you just loan it to us for the Buddha? She said, yes. So then I called him back and said, yes, we'll do it. Then we talked to Coco Hartman in Basel. who was running one of the heads of a shipping company and so it was shipped here. Did you trick me again? Yes, what?

[29:34]

Maybe a short other story. It's an oldies, a reunion of oldies. No, this is very new. Not a Buddhist story, but it just fits in. Fourteen days ago I was talking about a book fair in Leipzig. About two weeks ago there was a news magazine lying around the Spiegel and there were books, book reviews of the Leipziger Book Fair. Why didn't you just do it? And one book was particularly praised, and it sounded very interesting, why Einstein didn't wear socks.

[30:37]

And one book was particularly praised, and that sounded interesting, and the title was, Why Einstein Never Wore Socks. And this was written by an Austrian person and no Buddhist background, but what he explored or investigated, studied, is the influence of bodily postures onto the mind. And Einstein was simply better able to think when he didn't wear socks. And not just thinking, but all his creative genius ideas, they just appeared, I don't know from where, but in a better way when he didn't wear socks.

[31:48]

I don't know how anyone would know this. Anyway. I don't know how anyone would know this. Okay. Yeah, well, that's interesting. This is interesting. Tara? Where's Tara? Tara. Oh, there you are. Did you wear socks when you were climbing the tree? And shoes. And shoes. Okay. Okay. You know, maybe we should just go back to the seminar format if I'm just going to talk all the time. Could I talk? Oh, goody. It's just an observation. Just an observation. Yeah. Well, it's an observation. Okay. One thing that I'm noticing in practicing with body points is that when i choose a body point or actually actually such a body point is more it chooses itself and then i can intensify it um

[33:07]

When I bring my attention there, then I get a feeling for that particular space and that area where that space feels. I find that the conditions in a sashin are particularly good for working with body points. When I'm just keeping my attention on or with one point, is then when I do that for a long time, then it's as though from that point the entire system can kind of shift around.

[34:32]

And from that point it's as though the whole thing changes somehow. That's what happens. Das geschieht. It's amazing how it happens. Yes. Okay. Yes, Letizia. Thank you for standing up. And when... I'd like to join in on what Nicole just said. One can make particular experiences, but when I allow for the system to find itself, shift, the shift, is much more fundamental and essentially

[35:57]

Then my experience is that the shift is a lot more kind of fundamental or maybe groundbreaking, and it's more stable, it stays longer, or just stays, than if I just perform some sort of exercise. I could maybe say it does itself or more even. Yes, thank you. That's good. It fulfills itself. Fulfills itself. Yeah, good. Thank you very much. Yes, Dieter? Body image, you mean? Yeah. and the visual body feeling.

[37:23]

And how important it is for a change that you let yourself in on the current feeling and not integrate it personally into the body image, into your own comfort zone. So for me the experience that it's very important to connect or become that actual body feeling or state of the body and not try to integrate it into the body image or stay always in comfort zone. Yeah, I agree. Now, was this a general feeling in the group you were meeting with, or was this more particularly your feeling? Okay. So this discussion was triggered by a question of non-perceiving

[38:41]

talked about the dramatic descriptions in biographies of what happens broadly, and this kind of discussion was sparked, and the feeling was shared by several. Yeah, okay, thanks. The thinker. It doesn't influence the state of mind. I try my very best. Okay. Is this you again? Yes, it is. Okay, you again, then it'll work. Okay. Yes, I have a question about this, also how Letizia described it, because I know that too, with this finding oneself, that something finds itself.

[39:55]

And at the same time I also have the feeling that for a development, for a path, I need then usually it is a form of intention that creates an additional dynamic. So it's a kind of question. I know this feeling quite well that Letizia is describing of something finding itself. And yet, I'm finding that for the dynamic of a path, so that there's development that I usually is unpredictable to me what the new feeling will be. But for development to occur, there is some activity that still needs to be done.

[40:59]

I wouldn't necessarily say I need to do it, but there is this feeling of some kind of focusing that needs to happen. Also, ich habe es noch ein bisschen anders gesagt, dass ich schon irgendwo das Gefühl habe, um eine Dynamik in Gang zu bringen, dass irgendeine Art von Fokussierung stattfinden muss. Would you say it's a combination, then, of letting things fulfill themselves and a little bit of nudging, but not planning? Yes, I would certainly say it is things fulfilling. themselves, and it's also certainly not planning, and yet I would say it's a little more than just nudging.

[42:09]

It's almost like the nudging is a continuous process. It's not just one, but it's maybe continuous nudging. Well, everything is continuous. I mean, everything is activity, so. Okay. Would you agree with her, Letizia, that there's a little bit of nudging involved? Not by you. For her, no. Okay. She's pure. In German, we use the word intention. Maybe intention is a little more than nothing. And it may be a little bit too much toward planning. Well, I mean, don't say oops. Maybe you're finding your way, Ulrich. What I've been meaning to say is close to what Nicole just said.

[43:10]

In the group earlier we noticed that body points can be either simple or punctual or complex. In our group, we discussed how body points can be simple, or they can be more complex. And the The spine, for example, can appear as more complex, whereas a mudra could be more simple or is more simple. But when actually entering or diving into a mudra or the feet, for example, they can become a lot more complex.

[44:13]

If I now throughout the day pay close attention to my spine, then I experience something that you said in your lecture, namely that there are areas within the spine that are simple body points. Then I experienced something that you also said in your lecture today, that there are body points in the spine that are relatively simple, and that there are areas where it's a little harder to find access. And for me there is a question that arises as to how do I articulate this together with each other. Or if I should just not try to articulate it and more abide in the places that seem easy access or simple maybe.

[45:59]

Oder zu artikulieren, wenn mehrere Stellen da sind, die einfach sind, aber die vielleicht weniger deutlich sind auszulassen. or to articulate when there are several places that are simple. And how did you mean to stick with places that are harder to let out? If there is an area in the lower spine where I feel I have very little spine, it's easy to forget to let it out. Ah, okay. So if, for example, there's an area, let's say, in the lower, beneath the chest, the spine, where there's very little feeling for the spine, to maybe just leave that out. In the background is also the question, So and this is exactly where that relates to what I said, that the background question is already in this kind of exploration, is there too much planning involved?

[47:28]

And would it be better to just sit? And not practice with body points at all. Is that what you mean? No, but the body points are there. It feels like an intensification. The intensification. No, the body points are there, and what happens is an intensification. And it's this intensification that at this point brings me into a kind of confusion. Well, without more conversation I can't respond. probably very accurately, but in general you keep exploring the nuances of this and usually the confusion resolves itself.

[48:43]

Without further discussion, I may not be able to answer as precisely, but in general, would you continue to explore the nuances in it? What did he say? The confusion then gradually disappears. Thank you. And the confusion then gradually disappears. He's your backup. Yes, he is. I saw her, but I want to say something first. One of the principles of a skillful practitioner is that you look for What is looking for? Whatever he said, fine.

[49:45]

In the sense that the mind looks at the object, but you look at the mind. In other words, the mind looks at the object, but you look at the mind. So you look for what is looking. So when we practice Zazen, standard Zazen instruction, As you fold your legs one way or the other. And then you lift through your spine. And then you put your hands in a particular mudra. Rinzai puts the hands. Right hand on top and Soto Shu puts the left hand on top.

[50:51]

But actually in Rinzai you usually sit this way. At least when I was in a Rinzai temple for two and a half years. Okay. Each of these is a body point. Okay. So, now, these points, your leg posture, your hands, your spine, and so forth, all help you sit. But they're a little bit like the mind observing something. Aber sie sind ein bisschen so wie der Geist, der etwas beobachtet. But maybe the hands themselves have a mind.

[51:53]

Aber vielleicht haben die Hände selbst einen Geist. So the hands mudra, as Atma was pointing out, the hand mudra helps establish your posture. So wie Atma das gesagt hat, das Hand mudra hilft, deine Haltung einzurichten oder herzustellen. And helps bring attention to the overall zazen posture. But what happens when you bring attention to the hands themselves? So you ask the hands what is Buddhism. Yeah, so as Atmar said, that this posture ends up being different than this posture. And in the last weekend, someone who practices yoga a lot now was sitting this way. No, I've sat this way quite a bit.

[53:03]

But it's really quite different from this. The circuits are different. Okay, all right. So if we don't use the body points just to establish zazen, but then we use zazen to discover the body points, then the adventure of this kind of exploration is up to you to establish what body points work for you. So, certainly, I think for many of you, my recent emphasis on the spine has made you emphasize the spine more in Zazen.

[54:11]

And now am I saying that the spine can also be present in your ordinary life, not just in Zazen? may make you realize that the body points that establish Zazen can also establish a Bodhi body in your daily life. Okay. So we're finding targets to bring attention to. Okay, so you've discovered that Zazen practice can settle the mind out of a cognitive elaboration, as they say, out of too much comparative thinking.

[55:32]

and establish a more subtle and even mental continuum, which allows the mind to unfold more in its own terms, mindful of its own terms, So you're closer to knowing the nature of mind. Whoa, I'm not going to start giving tomorrow's lecture. I mean, I don't know what I'm going to say tomorrow, but that sounded like the direction. Okay. But definitely Zazen helps you establish a more even mental continuum.

[56:51]

Now I'm saying if you carry these same body points that establish Zazen discover how to carry them into your daily life you establish a more even mental continuum in your daily life. Now, these are things that you, again, I said, you don't really understand them, you do them. So you try the various obvious ones I've mentioned. Hands, feet, tongue, spine, neck, head. Hände, Füße, Zunge, Wirbelsäule, Kopf und Hals.

[58:02]

Yeah. And you see which, you try one at a time. Und du probierst eins, jeweils eines. And you try sort of, for instance, spending quite a bit of an afternoon with your tongue at the roof of the mouth or at least attention on the tongue. And you'll find with the tongue at the roof of the mouth, not only is your mind more even, you talk less. One of the ways I find useful to explore these body points Is create a kind of body breath mind.

[59:12]

A body breath point mind. Have the feeling, for instance, that you're breathing through your hands. It's a way to bring attention to the hands. And if you bring attention to the hands by feeling your breathing through the hands, you're also establishing breath as a more subtle energy. So you try that for a while. And then you try breathing through the spine. Or bringing attentional breath mind to the tongue. and then you start bringing them together like a little quartet or orchestra.

[60:29]

Yeah, so by this kind of playing around, if you like, you begin to articulate your inner attentional space beginst du deinen inneren Aufmerksamkeitsraum zu artikulieren. And you begin to stabilize the body to a more... There's a word I... Immovable, I say, but I really want another word, which I always forget. Imperturbable? Imperturbable. I don't know why I... There are certain words I've been forgetting for years, not my age. I've been forgetting them since I was 20. My age too, but really. There are certain words I forget all the time. Imperturbable.

[61:31]

So you're moving, actually exploring and developing the possibility of a world in which each appearance... is a separate unit. You're developing a body in which each appearance is a separate unit. The world is changing and appearing spontaneously. And the more that you can do that, the mind remains more and more immovable. So it's a process of developing the iron man or the imperturbable God in mind. No. I mean, when I say these things, I think... Well, no one told me that in high school.

[62:40]

Or even college. Isn't that right? No one told us that in college. But this is basic stuff about know thyself and take care of thyself. So you find out which body points are easiest for you at this particular time to maintain and sustain? And how to kind of concertize among them? Concertieren. Okay, danke. And to use breath as an attentional vehicle. Even the sense or feel of breath, even though it's not really breath.

[63:47]

Okay, that's enough, Marie-Louise. Could we bring it into the present? We can, but you spoke about it. This confusion about what, before you started speaking, I was wondering if it's also a distinction between inhabiting this body point versus having a concept or a visual idea of what this body point is, and then these are two ways of working. Well, you work with both and see which one works best.

[64:48]

Do you want to translate it? This question is now somehow out of place. But nevertheless, the question is, it's about before, where this confusion was, whether it's not maybe the one thing that you live this body point B or inside and or in contrast to an inner image or a concept of But I think the word inhabit is a good one to keep using that as a definitive, attentional pointer. Yeah, I mean, this morning I had fun working with with. I got up with the wake-up bell. Then I got up with the bed.

[66:08]

Well, it helped me get up. Then I got up with the floor. And then I got up with stepping down into the living room. I felt so together. Yeah. I think, you know, what I would like is not when I come in for the second session that you report on what you spoke about. But you continue what you were discussing but share information the discussion with me, just continue. And if you don't, there's no reason for me to come to the session because I just walk in and you shut up. So I talked to Ammar about cutting a hole in the floor so I could listen and watch.

[67:10]

He says it's quite difficult. So he said, maybe just sit in the back on a chair. Okay, how do we do it? I sit on the floor? Whatever, but you can try out different things, but it just doesn't... It's like, I don't know, riding the bicycle if you want to walk or something like that. Okay, all right. Well, tomorrow I'll take the platforms away. Maybe sit in a circle. I don't know. See, what really was different when I sat in the front and when we turned each other to each other more like this so we could see each other more, this was making it a bit different. Okay, well, I'll do whatever works better. That's a good use to try the chainsaw. Yeah. It would be probably the most fun to do that.

[68:29]

Well, if this other thing still doesn't work, then maybe. But even then I find that also when we meet in the small groups, it does take a little moment before we find our common ground. I waited for a while. And then something happens, don't you think? Yeah, a little bit. Okay, maybe not. How? You know, when you suggest a topic, and we try whatever we understand or know or don't know about it, and so we sometimes come to the end of our tether at the end of the discussion. And so we, of course, we wish for... When I come in, you're tethered. So this is not... Well, I do sit on the platform. I do sit on the platform because if I do start speaking about something more at length for everyone, it's helpful because I can feel everyone.

[69:51]

But maybe if I sit on the floor, which I have done in the past, I can do that in a different way. Yes, you were going to say something? You started saying, okay. But partly it's just, I don't know, I can't imagine, don't think eight inches should make that big a difference. I mean, just... have something to say and say it. Maybe this kind of pressure extinguishes everything.

[70:53]

I can't do anything right today if everything works. Yeah, go ahead. As some of you have noticed, we now have this Dojo Rio project. As some of you participated and know about, we had this Dojo Ryo project. And we are just experimenting with different forms of interacting. And the big difference for me and I think also for everyone else was that there was a preparation. And so we had a topic, the five skandhas, and we emailed back and forth and everyone said that that was already helpful just to stay with one topic. Aber die andere Erfahrung, die wir dann gemacht haben in dem Wochenendseminar zu dem Thema.

[72:07]

But the other experience we had during the weekend seminar with this topic. Da war so viel Austausch, dass manche gesagt haben, nur halt das doch ganz einmal an und lass uns mal zur Ruhe kommen. There was so much exchange that some people said, we have to stop the whole thing and let's just calm down for a moment. Let's have a break or so, kind of. take a break and let's continue. And that was really a sign of how much there was in a room that had suddenly opened, how much came out and was exchanged and how it could hardly be stopped. But that was also a sign for once the space was opened how much there was to be exchanged and how that was almost difficult to stop it somehow.

[73:09]

And how much was that a dynamic of the preparation? The preparation was certainly one aspect of it that there was so much. I think it was also the space to just have the courage to say something, just start talking. Yeah, well, that's good. Once I had to give a lecture in Vienna. And it was, I don't know, a couple hundred people. Downtown in Vienna. And the person I was staying with drove me to the lecture.

[74:12]

But left about one minute before the lecture was supposed to start. And raced through Vienna at high speed. With people jumping off the sidewalk. And I said to the driver, I said, You think of yourself as a Buddhist, but you just scared the shit out of those people. This is not Buddhism. I mean, really, these people are scared to death. So anyway, we got there and I got up on the stage. And I looked at all these people who mostly I didn't know. And I thought, I don't have anything to say.

[75:29]

I don't know these people. I don't have anything to say to them. So I couldn't, didn't know what to say. So I sat there for a while and said, you know, I thought of something to say, but, you know, basically I didn't have anything to say. And I got a little mad at the Wiener Bande afterwards. And I said, if you've been practicing for years now, your job is to rescue me. Because I asked for questions and no one said anything. So I said, you really have to train yourself to be able to ask me questions when I lose it. Now they're pretty good. If there's one of the Veena Banda here, it's like Christina, and there's a gap.

[76:33]

They ask a question right away. Hey, I think they all keep two or three questions just in case we lose it again. Thank you very much. And we'll have the meal at the usual time? 6.30. 6.30? Okay. A quarter to seven. All right, fine.

[77:34]

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