We've got all this empty space here. Some of you are so far away, but I hope you can hear. You can imagine how happy I am that you're all here. And that we have our own home to practice Sashinyan. And I know how much work Gisela and Gerald and Sabine and Doris and Nico and Beate and then others of you who came to help did to prepare for the Sashin. Good. I should have made the list longer.

[01:03]

And I also, of course, know how much work went in over generations to develop this kind of practice and this kind of schedule. So a lot of work has been done for us by everybody who prepared for the Sesshin. And by the generations that developed this unique kind of practice. Und durch die Generationen, die diese einzigartige Form der Praxis entwickelt haben. My point is that we shouldn't let the Sechin just carry us now. Und der Punkt, den ich machen will, ist, wir sollten das Sechin uns jetzt nicht nur tragen lassen. Just step your foot in it, you may get swept into the energy of the sashin itself.

[02:23]

And that's quite natural. But still, to make your Sesshin useful, you have to bring your own energy to the Sesshin. Even as much energy as went into developing this practice. I mean, you've come here for some reason. Let's assume to study yourself. To get to know yourself better. to become more intimate with yourself.

[03:33]

When you did this, you came because others were coming to the Sesshin. You knew others were coming here to support you. Otherwise, you would have stayed in your living room and done it all by yourself for the week. But we know how hard that would be. I think almost no one would get past the second or third day. If you even try. So we're here to support each other. Hmm. So what should I discuss?

[04:35]

You know, this is your Sashin. Maybe I should just watch. What if I don't just watch? I'll also do that. What should I discuss with you these afternoons? Mm-hmm. I think I'd like to speak about mind. There's no topic more central to Zen practice. But to talk about mind, you have to get used to the way in which Buddhism talks about things. Because when we talk about mind, we can talk about almost anything. Let's say, how would a Buddhist define a car? I mean, what is a car? It's a bunch of parts.

[05:58]

And it has some purpose. You can describe the purpose, but that doesn't tell you much about the car. So the tendency in Buddhism is to describe the parts on which the car depends. So in this sense, you'd say, the car is the tires. And the car is the air in the tires. And the car is the roads, are the roads. But the bumper is not the car. The bumper? Bumper... The bumper is not necessary. And the hills without roads, they're not the car. But if you were a small country and you were deciding to buy a bunch of cars or make cars,

[07:02]

You need the kind of vulcanized rubber or something like that that can hold air and not puncture. And you need roads and etc. So a Buddhist would say, the roads are the car. Or maybe the driver's seat is the car. So we would point to the things on which the car depends to say that's the car. Because the generalization car doesn't exist, it's just a bunch of parts. So we speak about any topic like mind in this way. I'd also like to start to some extent with what we did in the seminar earlier this month.

[08:54]

And perhaps some of the things we spoke about in Crestone recently. Though this will disturb Joe and Gerald because they were in Creston recently. But I want to keep the Dharma Sangha you know sort of sharing a teaching and sharing a way of understanding our practice. So one thing I spoke about The last seminar, I believe, here was Dishwater Mind. Spülwassergeist, yeah, it sounds good.

[10:07]

Sounds like something we should put on our schedule. The after-meals, spülwassergeist, geister. Anyway, our mind, which we've washed too much of our karma in, Our mind is a kind of dishwater mind because we're always washing our karma in it. And our karma doesn't get any cleaner, but our mind gets dirty. So we're filled with schmutzgeist. I better not try to speak German. Yeah. But here we are in practice, in Sashin, and Sashin is, first of all, your posture.

[11:18]

Everything about the Sashin speaks to your posture. The schedule. The way we take care of the building, use the building. And of course the way you sit on your cushion. Now posture is the form of your posture, but it's also the feel of your posture. And I think on this first day we should have a feeling of, try to find a feeling of coming home into our posture. Now, by coming home, I mean the way you'd like to feel if you were home.

[12:28]

Tsukiroshi spoke about how a traveler feels coming home and lying on his bed or her bed. Or how a duck, he said, how a duck, he imagined, would feel sliding into the water. So somehow we want to kind of maybe slide into ourselves the way a duck slides into water. But our body is full of dishwater mind. I think you can find it in various parts of your body. You can feel in your muscles dishwater mind. So somehow you want to pull the plug and let it drain out. Yeah, so you have, you know, clear zazen, not too sleepy, I hope, zazen.

[13:55]

Now it helps if you, you know, if you don't want to have sleepy zazen, it helps to put your mind in your backbone. And this feeling of your backbone as a mind your backbone as awareness can be present with you throughout the day. But when you're sitting, your zazen will be more alert if you can feel this awakeness, this spine mind. This backbone mind. And it also helps to have a sense of putting your mind in your eyes.

[15:05]

So you see a little bit, so there's a kind of feeling of awakeness in your eyes. And likewise, if you can put a feeling of awakeness in your hand, It usually means to open up this mudra, lifting, so it feels like a big oval. An oval? Oh, yeah. It sounds the same. And not too like this or not too much like that. And these small things are quite important. And they're hard to see in the teachings because they're referred to as things like dignified bearing.

[16:09]

Dignified in English, the roots mean to accept and support. When you have the feeling of both accepting and supporting, there's a feeling of dignity, we say. So Sukhiroshi Dogen Zenji speaks about bearing in motion and stillness. Bearing means, do you know the word bearing? Yeah, carrying. Yeah, but it also means how you carry yourself, how you look or feel. Can you repeat? Yeah, the person's bearing is, there's a kind of, if a person has good bearing, it means they have a good posture and a feeling of alertness, something like that. And it also means to carry. But these are, you can't explain these things in the sutras or in something like Dogen, he just refers to it.

[17:36]

But it's in things like the instruction I've given you for Kinhin, how you feel your energy in the back of your leg coming up to your head and so forth. Well, it's like when we're doing Kinhin, when Kinhin ends. It's not like you hear a gun go off and you start the race. You hear the bell. There's a kind of pause. And then you put both feet together. And then you do a shashu bow. And then you start to walk. And that kind of small detail, even in just hearing the bell to end kin hin, to hear the, to just hear it,

[18:48]

Put your feet together, which you were walking, and now you put your feet together. And then with the feet together and a feeling of stableness, you do a shashu bow. And then you start to walk. So this is what would be called dignity or bearing in some comment like of Dogen's or Sukhiroshi. So this is kind of feeling in just how the hand is, how the mind is in the hand when you're sitting. And in your cheekbones and eyes. And this connected by this feeling of awareness, awakeness in your spine.

[19:57]

And if you have this kind of feeling, you're less likely to be sleepy and zazen. Now, if you let this settle down into your hara, just below your navel, this is where your big mind is rooted. Maybe this would be like the duck in water. And, you know, if you can Bring your mind, you know, first maybe these three things, eyes, hands and spine. And then let this feeling of mind settle into your hara. This is a good anchor. And it drains this dishwater mind out of your lungs.

[21:16]

You know, your lungs are really three parts, upper and middle and lower. And part of practice is simply to begin to feel yourself breathing in all three parts of your lungs. And even to make a little effort at noticing breathing in all three parts. Especially up into the tips of the lungs in your shoulders. But I think you'll find there's a fair amount of dishwater mind in your lungs, keeping your lungs, shaping your lungs more almost than your lungs themselves. We're always looking ahead in our head.

[22:18]

You want to stop looking ahead in your head and come back to this sight of your body. S-I-T-E, sight of your body. If you have this kind of feeling in your body, this settling down into your hara, it's funny, but this physical feeling becomes the root of your lungs start to feel very broad and stable. See, I'm already talking about mind. tires and air and the tires and things like that.

[23:33]

So now we have big, stable, imperturbable lungs. Which is maybe also big, stable, imperturbable mind. Hmm. You feel your lungs can support anything and accept anything. It's a kind of physical dignity. Anyway, we don't have any words in English for this relationship of mind and this equality of mind and body. Und wir haben keine Worte für diese Ebenbürtigkeit von Geist und Körper.

[24:35]

Das Gefühl des Körpers zu entdecken, ebenso wie die Form des Körpers. Also kommen wir in eine Form der Haltung und ein Gefühl der Haltung. And if you can drain some of this dishwater mind out of your body, some big, clear, stable mind appears. And this will help your sitting for this week, for sure, if you can feel this kind of stability. The pain in your legs will be much easier to bear. Even you may hardly notice it. Hmm. But the purpose of this kind of posture is not so you have a better sashin or you gain some power, but just to discover this feeling of coming home.

[25:59]

The way you'd like to feel when you come home. You discover this feeling in your own body. And you learn to sit into this feeling, move into this feeling, remain in this feeling. Without much thinking. Some other kind of thinking or intelligence appears. When you can find a posture in which there's not much thinking. A posture which is open to drain and let dishwater mind run out. Another kind of thinking or intelligence appears.

[27:09]

And practice is not so much a break breaking through, though it does have the quality of breaking through. But letting something break in or seep in. Something we don't usually notice. A dishwater mind doesn't notice much. It's not very subtle. So we need a more subtle mind which notices something quite small. Maybe like to come home into our body and just feel at rest.

[28:12]

For these seven days, for this schedule. For you want to discover, we want to discover in practice a mind which lets everything start to teach us. It's a kind of inwardly inward realizing, and outward realizing. So what I'm speaking about here, or beginning to speak about here, is discovering a mind of inward realizing and outward realizing. But maybe I can come to this a little more tomorrow. But for now, I'd just like you to have this, to know that it's possible to come into, to come home in your body.

[29:41]

So the sashin is quite transparent. And you can see your dishwater mind quite clearly. And you can also know how to let the dishwater mind go down the drain. And you may have a plumbing problem and it will come back up the drain and fill you up again. But if you're a good Dharma plumber, you can, you know, get it to go back down again. So that's maybe Dharma plumbing is the other subject for this ashenness. because I think each of us would like to come into this feeling of being at home and this feeling of a big wide mind imperturbable mind

[30:51]

which can accept Sashin and whatever comes. We hear the birds and the water outside. But when your lungs are quite imperturbable and your mind is quite imperturbable, it's the same whether you hear the birds or don't hear the birds. The mind is the same when it hears the birds, quite joyful, and the mind is the same when there's no sound of the birds. So this is, you know, this imperturbable mind, whether there's bird sound or water or not, it feels quite good. And if we discover this mind, we are coming home. To ourselves, here or wherever we are. This mind rooted actually in our hara.

[32:36]

Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you. Mögen unsere Absichten, Gärchen, Hasen, Jedes Wesen und jeden Ort durchstrengen, Mit dem Wahrheitverdienst des Bruderweges. Jujum et sejano, Onum et sejano, Allah is the greatest. He is the greatest. I praise you for saving us. [...] Whiskey flow, baby, turn around.

[33:53]

In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen. These new pillows I have are almost too much.

[36:40]

Bernd made me this huge pillow, which I feel like I'm going to... You need to feel like the boot up there ready to fall off his box. Is this from Coco or Berndt? Berndt, this one. Didn't you... This is Coco. Yeah. The Sabotan is from Coco. Coco, that's what I thought. It's a Coco-sized Sabotan. The Coco size. And then you're way down there. I'm sorry. Just small. No, you ought to have a thin cushion. And I like it that our Buddha is higher, but we have to design an altar or have one made. Sort of a sweet young Buddha, and he's propped up there on top of that box. That he's supposed to be a little higher than our eyes, so we have to, maybe Gerald is the one who should, or not, put it up there.

[37:47]

So I'm trying to find a way into this topic of mind. And a way in with you. Hmm. Certainly we live in our mind, practice in our mind, sleep within our mind, in effect. And without explaining mind from a Buddhist point of view, we can talk about practice in ways that's useful. But because of my own inclination and because Buddhism is new in our culture, and what we mean by mind is not naturally understood by us,

[39:16]

Yeah, so I find myself trying to look at it as an operative understanding within Buddhism as a whole. And Zen particularly uses a vision and concept of mind, in a way that's fundamental to the whole practice, more so than the rest of Buddhism. Now, I've always been very discouraged about our human condition. I don't know, maybe it's just because I'm a melancholy sort of guy.

[40:40]

And maybe it's because, I don't know, I grew up in the Second World War. Not with the pain your family, parents, grandparents did. But I could never figure out why human beings did this to each other. It would never struck me as anything about winning and fighting and things like that. It was just, why do we do these things? So I've been... So from that time and probably even earlier, I've been... Underneath everything I'm profoundly discouraged about our life and situation.

[41:55]

And it's certainly probably the underpinnings of all motivation I have to practice. Now, strangely enough, I take hope in the plasticity of the human mind. It's quite amazing. I think we should recognize, Buddhism does by implication, how plastic the mind is. Perhaps we could say from a scientific point of view, what makes it plastic is large numbers. And I know too, large numbers, to astound us, don't. They just sort of overlap in our mind. Sorry, astound us?

[43:14]

Astound to... I like it when I wonder, why does Gerald know astound and you don't know astound? Is Gerald more often astounded? Yes. But just if you took the mantle of the cortex, don't get bored. These big numbers only take a moment. And you spread it out. It would be about the size of a large dinner napkin and about as thick. And if you tried to count the synapses in there, one at a time, one a second, you might be finished in 32 million years. And that's only the synapses, not the connections, the potential connections.

[44:44]

There are guessed at number of positively charged particles in the known universe. of 10 with 80 zeros after it. The number of connections in the brain is something like 10 with millions of zeros after it. I mean, you're sitting here, each of you, but the number of all of that stuff out there, at the smallest measure we can make of it pretty much, we are more complex in our connectedness. And it seems, or at least it seems, seems true to me, little I can study of this stuff, is that our brains have become more fluid as evolution has progressed.

[46:09]

As our brains become more complex, there's such capacity competed for that they actually become more fluid. This is a short lecture of big numbers. Okay. Anyway, that's just, it's all just to say there is basically a limitless capacity sitting here. And there's no question that culture shapes most of this for us. And literacy shapes it. And I think of getting bigger Paulina and Julius.

[47:19]

Learning their language. And this language is shaping their mental capacities. along with the affection of their parents. But if we take just a word like dignity yesterday, is that virting? Virting? W-um-lat? Yeah, R? R-D-I-G, yeah. The dig part looks the same. You know, Kaz and Dan Welch chose to translate this word in Japanese with this sense of dignity or bearing.

[48:23]

And yet it's surprising how close this word in English, in its roots, this sense of accepting and supporting... Which is exactly what Dogen means, pretty close to exactly what Dogen means by this yogic sense of presence or bearing. So I ask you to, you know, in the Sesshin we have a chance, you know, here we have these seven days, we've lost one person, but the rest of you still seem to be here.

[49:31]

we have a chance outside our usual habits to change our habits. So you might try to see if this sense of to support, to accept each moment, and accept and give support to it at the same time. I'm trying to, you know, when I pick a word like this and try to practice with it, I'm trying to get inside our usual habits. Because this, you know, again, practice is not about... How can I say?

[50:51]

We're talking here about some basics of which the implications of these basics are not so obvious. The basics are, I think you probably have got the picture, that Zen practice, Buddhist practice, is about freeing you from a culturally determined mind. This is what the phrase original mind means. Or the mind before your parents were born. The mind before your parents were born means the mind before the culture of your grandparents. No, we read Zen and we hear the mind before your parents were born.

[51:56]

This is an extraordinarily radical idea. Hmm. So it means that when you practice Buddhism, you are entering into a mind language which can free you from your cultural mind or change your use of it. Now you may not want to do this, but the possibility is here. Why would you want to do it anyway? What's wrong with it? Because you'll be happier. Because it's nicer, I think.

[53:14]

Yeah. Of course, if we take practice to mean that you can create a new kind of person, I can understand you might look at me and say, well, if he's been doing it all these years and he's the new kind of person, no, thank you. But I'm just starting, so... Yeah. But it means that if you start practicing, the roots of practice are, it doesn't make any sense otherwise, just give you the teachings, the skills to free yourself from your habituated mind. habituated not just by your psychology, but personal history, but also by your culture, and by language.

[54:28]

Hence these phrases, transmission outside the scriptures. Außerhalb sogar der Sprache des Buddhism. Okay, so we're talking about a human alternative, which is not German, Japanese, American, or Chinese, etc. Wir sprechen also über eine menschliche Alternative, die nicht deutsch, amerikanisch, chinesisch oder japanisch ist. It's a Buddhist alternative, shall we say. So we're in the German or American container. Do we want to be poured into the Buddhist container?

[55:28]

Well, some Buddhism is taught this way. The Buddhist container is nicer than your culture's container, so you have more freedom and all that stuff. So why don't you choose that one? But if we can choose containers, what about containers that don't yet exist? And one of the reasons Sashin is so formless, I mean, there's a lot of form, but we don't tell you too much about what to do. It's not the style in Zen to give guided meditation, for example. Who am I to guide your million, billion synapses? Just let these As much as possible, we want to create a practice sphere where mind, body, bones, flesh are on their own.

[56:56]

So we have the main yogic posture of mind is uncorrected mind. So Buddhism is showing you how to get out of the container of your culture, your habituated mind. And so it's showing you how to get out of the container And it's showing you some of the containers you can choose as an alternative. But Zen especially is saying, explore and discover your own container. Now let's just look at it again.

[58:02]

If Buddhism is able to develop itself as a teaching, which can show you an alternative to your psychologically and culturally habituated mentality, Okay, so it means that it's possible to create other opportunities. Okay, so the excitement in Zen practice is beginning this process, which is not just, you know, each of us is going to become God, Buddha, or Frankenstein.

[59:07]

Here we are pouring test tubes. but that it's a multi-generational and Sangha practice. Although we're going to end up probably in a kind of Euro-American Buddhist container, If we're practicing Zen, we're also in there's a fluidity to this new non new container. And we're not going to change it today, but it has vitality in its fluidity.

[60:21]

We're moving into our own uniqueness in the uniqueness of each moment. Yes. Now, I don't know if this is interesting to you or feels, has relevance for you, but it's how I get into something. So again, I think of Pauline and Julius and my grandson, Tomas, learning a new language. Yeah, and I think of the, we say in Zen, the sweating horses of the past. That means we're on the shoulders of an immense activity of, we'd have to say, genius.

[61:25]

Some, this language was, you know, didn't just come out of a kind of brain language mechanism as some people have thought in the past. Die Sprache, die ist nicht einfach aus einem Gehirnmechanismus hervorgekommen, wie einige Leute in der Vergangenheit geglaubt haben. It will take a long time before Pauline and Julius' sense of language opens up to the subtlety built into a word like dignity. Es wird eine lange Zeit dauern, bis Pauline's und Julius' Sprachsinn so weit entwickelt sind, bis sie die Subtilität eines Wortes wie Würde erfassen können. So here's this language which children can learn. And fairly stupid people can learn. People with moronic IQs can still learn language pretty well. Moronic means an IQ of 60 or 80 or something like that.

[62:40]

Like I feel like I have when I try to write. Like I feel like I have when I try to write. Yeah. And yet built into it is this subtlety of each moment you find your dignity through accepting and supporting. So that's in the language that Pauline and Julius are learning and if they stay if they really are present to the language it will begin to open up in them and open up the plasticity of their own actual physical brain

[63:53]

So Zen practice, in a way, and all this religious stuff, you know? Because this inner science, this mind science, is in a larger emotional context of emotion, which is called a religion. And it needs this context of emotion. Maybe as laboratories do better probably in university framework than others. So there's a religious context of emotion for this practice. And which allows us to, I hope, find in the way we do things the subtlety that may come into you, if you can enter your pace into this accepting and supporting.

[65:13]

Now this pace of accepting and supporting In the same moment is very much this mind of Samantabhadra. The gate which you enter without taking a step, it's described. That mind in which Everything enfolds within you. Memory, sensorial information. Feelings, smells, sub-vocalization. All enfolds and then you hold it a moment.

[66:13]

And then you have a choice about how it unfolds. Sorry, unfold? Unfold means it folds in. Unfold means it folds out. Now, as I pointed out the other day, William James, this American philosopher, pragmatist, His life almost overlaps with ours. Concerned himself with this moment in which things enfold and then unfold. And practice is, real practice is to bring ourselves into that moment. Without it slipping by through looking ahead in our head. So if we can find a way that Pauline and Julius, etc., and us old folks, can let the wisdom of language and our physical activity unfold in us.

[67:54]

Now this is a big part of the reason why Zen emphasizes imperturbable mind. Now an imperturbable mind is not a still mind. A still mind, you know, you can have still water and it's easy to splash. You can't splash an imperturbable mind. This is a different category of mind than stillness. Now you may realize a quiet still mind, and if you think this is Buddhism, Dogen will laugh at you. And he does. Some Zen master says, blah, blah, blah. Dogen says, he understands stillness, not imperturbability.

[69:14]

And the language sounds the same, but you can see that actually he doesn't know imperturbable mind, he only knows still mind. And this imperturbable mind rooted in Your physicality. Maybe the image of the withered tree or the stump is useful. So a stump is like, imagine I'm a tree stump. Cut off right here. Nico and Gural just cut me off right here. All the trees around here were nervous because Gerald and Nico were out with a chainsaw at the end of the day.

[70:31]

Two or three of them gave up. You could see the leaves trembling on all the other trees. And there wasn't any wind that day. So cut off right here. And the roots, the roots are all folded up and withered. Withered? Withered means like a flower withers. So no water is seeping up into the stump. So Sukershi, when he says, or Zen says, things shit like a dead stump, This means to sit with imperturbable mind. Nothing's coming in, nothing's going out.

[71:39]

So some image like this may help you when you're sitting. It's not very attractive. What do you do all week? Dead stump mind. But it means to come into the feeling of imperturbable mind. Where actually the wisdom, actually we could say the genius of language can open up in you. Some human beings through their activity put all of this stuff in language. This wisdom that's in single words. But yet it's a language children and morons can learn. And we'd like Buddhism to be like that.

[72:47]

Children, morons and us can all learn and practice Buddhism. But if you really want to open yourself to the wisdom of Buddhism, to these basics which are not obvious, You need to bring yourself into this imperturbable mind or have a feeling or vision of it. This mind you can't splash. And one way to get a feeling of this is the example I gave you this morning. Of develop a sense of location.

[73:49]

No. Yes. I'm going to stop in a moment. But, you know, here we are. Bones. Yeah. Flesh. This cortical mantle, like a napkin. Cortical mantle, like a napkin. And there's this room which is also our mental space. There's all this and we need to simplify it. there's also a sense of location.

[75:10]

In this sensorium and mentality, mental space and sensorial space, we can have a sense of location. And you can study this sense of location. And you can move it into your breath. Or into your backbone. Or it can get caught up in your story. And notice I'm saying you can move the sense of location. So there's a witness of this sense of place. But if you notice, you'll see that the witness tends to go with the sense of place. If the witness says, oh, I think I'll move this sense of place out of my conversation voice now, feeling you,

[76:20]

My sense of place right now is in some kind of organic membrane that I feel connected with all of you through my speaking with you. and a certain kind of observer goes with that sense of place which is witnessing this organic membrane now if I pull that sense of place into my breath And now I feel it in my breath. And in a kind of circle with my backbone. What I find is this witness also has moved. So this witness isn't some kind of, you know, like a witness isn't in a permanent backhoe cab.

[77:50]

Backhoe? Backhoe is one of those big things that digs in the street, you know, and there's a guy sitting there with his tools. So anyway, the witness, the ego, is not this guy who sits up there operating the stuff looking down. He changes positions all the time. If you haven't explored the witness yet and seen that you can't get hold of it, you better start today. Because one of the basics is to really study the witnessing, the process of witnessing. Doesn't mean you shouldn't love the witness of your life. And all the things he or she

[78:58]

Do you have a she or he want to do? But it'd be good for you to know that this witness is not permanent. Can't be held down. Changes all the time. You'll have a more realistic sense of where you're going with this witness. So the sense of place, the witness tends to go along with it, sometimes at a distance, sometimes close up. And you move, you the witness, move the sense of place But the sense of place is more powerful. And it pulls the witness with it. And the sense of place can absorb the witness.

[80:04]

And when the sense of place absorbs the witness, we call it samadhi. And the sense of place can move somewhere and then allow a new kind of witness to open up in an unusual place. So this sense of place is a tool in which you can begin to explore the immense capacity and plasticity of us. I mean, we can't... These big numbers are beyond us, although we are them. But you can begin to develop a language of mind by staying with this sense of place.

[81:16]

So that's as much as I should say today. To suggest you work with this sense of place. in counting your breath, in becoming a dead stump, in moving this sense of place down into your hara, in moving this sense of place into the room all at once, Or now into your listening. This sense of place, you can move it around.

[82:17]

And you can decide in your zazen practice where you're most alert. To locate the sense of place in your hands. or you make your choice where this sense of place should be located so that you best feel clear and open in this sashim And the more you become familiar with this sense of place, and develop, let's say, a vocabulary of this sense of place, you become intimate and familiar and experienced with this sense of place. Your engaged in a very basic transformative process.

[83:27]

You're practicing Zen, but you're also practicing humanity and being itself. And inevitably for others as well as yourself. Yeah. So perhaps there's some hope for my deep discouragement. Thank you.

[84:06]

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