When I start a Buddhist event, I always bow, but, you know, we're not doing something Buddhism exactly is. I don't know how many people... Does everyone know English moderately well? Is someone who doesn't know English pretty well? You don't? You do, yeah. Well, I'd like to start out with translating some of, at least some of what I talk about. And maybe when we have, if it's not necessary, we can stop. But when I'm in Europe, I get so used to it that I pause anyway, waiting for a translation to occur.

[01:06]

But at least when we discuss some of the technical Buddhist stuff, it might be good to have translation. But when we're having discussion among ourselves, we can just use English. And again, I'll take your advice on it. And if it seems easier to do it without translation, we can do that. But I always feel if there's no translation, I should start speaking German, so it's easier for you. No. We're going to have dinner at 6 o'clock. Well, you must say something. So it's easy to have it at any time because it's cold?

[02:16]

Yes, but it's half... No, it's cold. Yeah. So we can have it at any time, almost. Yes, yes. Okay. So when do you need to know when? Five minutes. Five minutes, okay. Okay. All right. So I'd like us to decide together what we should do together. I think of this more as a colloquium than a seminar. Which means more, you use the term in German, but in English it means more people just do something together, there's not one teacher. This is something I've thought about doing for many years. In fact, in 1968, or something like that, Tsukiroshi had talked to me that while he knew quite a bit about Western philosophy, he didn't know much about my teacher, Tsukiroshi, didn't know much about psychology.

[03:43]

So Michael Murphy is a friend of mine who is the head of or founder of Esalen. So we did a program at Esalen on psychology and Buddhism with the president of the American Psychiatric Association or something. I can't remember. So we did a seminar with people for about three days at Esalen. of which the main purpose was to introduce Tsukiyoshi to some ideas about psychology.

[04:50]

Because one of the first things he noticed that most Asian teachers I've talked to notice is Westerners have much more flora and fauna of psychological stuff than they seem to have in the Orient. Even when I talk with Asians in the encounter of teacher and student in Zen, the way they frame their personal problems and problems with practice is quite different than the Westerners do. So over the years, of course, practicing and teaching Buddhism all these years, Keep wondering about how Buddhism and psychology can weave together in this new culture.

[06:09]

I can tell you my own views are that really When you get right down to it, nobody knows anything about this subject. I mean, there's a lot of people who have written some insightful articles and so forth. But there just hasn't been enough time to really look at how they touch each other. I mean, I've been doing nothing but Buddhism for more than 30 years. And I feel I'm just... One, I feel I don't know that much about Buddhism. And I would say that I'm just now beginning to understand in the last few years the first five years of my practice.

[07:32]

And although I'm pretty well informed about psychotherapy and psychology. I really don't know very much at all. And what I do know is sort of 30 years old, because most of the studies I did were back 30 and 20 years ago. And I think it's actually, again if we're being strict, I think that there isn't such a thing as Buddhist psychology. Buddhism is a, I would say, a mindology, not a psychology. It's really a very careful study of mind, consciousness, interior consciousness, exterior consciousness, and so forth.

[08:49]

And the idea of a psyche and how your story matures is all not very important in Buddhism. So I actually think there's a rich territory for the way Westerners individuate and... and understand themselves and the practices and study of the mind and perception through Buddhism. So, at least my first thoughts about what we might do is talk about how we can establish enough common language to have a discussion. Do we have the... We don't need it tonight, but do you have that writing board and stuff?

[10:02]

Because that might be useful tomorrow. In the cellar. So what we might do is... I might try to present some basic ideas that I think are important in how Buddhism works in Western thinking and language. At least that could be a starting point. But I'd like to know something about you guys first.

[11:06]

Another thing we have to discuss is also how much meditation do you want to do? Because if we're just talking about theories, we don't have to do meditation. But if you're interested in how meditation can, the practice of meditation itself, can be part of a therapeutic program, or you're interested in learning something about meditation yourself, or maybe you already know quite a bit, Much is learned about meditation by letting our bodies do it together. Some things that you can't find out just sitting by yourself. So let's, if you would, I'd like to at least find out who each of you is or am.

[12:29]

Let me, can I introduce Ulrike? She's a molecular biologist and has been practicing with me and we live together and helping me teach and translate for four years. I call her a molecular Buddhist. So maybe we could start here. You could tell us something about yourself. And I'd also like to know what, I mean, I told you a little bit about what I'd like to see happen and what I'd like to learn. And maybe you could say something the same. Yeah. Or we'd start anywhere else. Okay. Yeah. Come from your mouth.

[13:33]

You can have a seat. Yes, please, yeah. Yes, she just told me something. I'm not so very experienced in them, but in Vipassana. I apologize for I have to sit on this bench. My legs are a little bit weak. I don't think you have to apologize for sitting in a normal way. Yeah. I've been in psychotherapy now for almost 20 years. I also have kind of asked myself so often,

[14:35]

where there are the links. I find it so helpful to meditate. This I know certainly. And sometimes I have clients who do the same dynamic. They will also sit together occasionally. And I found out that this really promotes the process. I have no idea how, to be frank, I've been working a lot with the very ill persons, people and other heavy persons. I have trained medical doctors. Especially for those people, if they enter into some sort of spiritual practice from this experience, there are not so many of them. The place where I worked was with very ordinary people, not sophisticated ones, not educated ones.

[15:45]

And where I have many question marks is how would any feelings be with each other. This I found difficult. What is that? Feelings. Feelings. Emotion. Emotion, yes. Oh, okay. This I would be very glad if we could discuss this. Yeah, it's central, actually. It's central. Okay. I'll say this again. I felt in the... Housewife for nearly 30 years now. I've always been, I think, interested in psychotherapy. And a few years ago, I came across the works of Durkheim, and then started the area in Pratishti, we call that.

[16:50]

He calls it the Tsiaposha therapy, which has been taught to us by a two-group, it's Kiliton-Krautner. And that's also where I came across meditation for the first time. And the two of them had a big impact on me and on my whole development. And I got interested in both by doing it and working with it. And actually, a year ago, I came across this process-oriented psychology. I started loving it. I'm very taken by it because it goes further with the spiritual part and psychological part, and I have read the Phoenix there. these many different streams come together and all of them are respected.

[17:52]

And it gives you the feeling that no aspect is looked upon as minor. But it is really watching the person and realizing where does the process lead. And I find meditation, I mean this whole spiritual aspect and the psychological there, very rewarding. Okay. . I'm a Protestant theologian and psychotherapist from Graz. My name is Siegfried. And since my early years I'm interested in how spirituality and therapy touch.

[19:11]

I teach therapy and I don't let the spirituality be explicit. I teach it explicitly and I teach it in a spiritual way. On the one hand, I also teach psychotherapy, but then I don't particularly emphasize spirituality. On the other hand, I also do lead spiritual seminars. Mm-hmm. Practice vipassana? Mm-hmm. So you're a Protestant theologian, practice vipassana meditation, and are a psychotherapist. Okay, great. And you're leaving, right? So, yeah. I'm Akira, and I'm a medical doctor and a psychotherapist.

[20:21]

A what conductor? A medical doctor. A medical doctor, right. No, I'm basic medication. And I come from the bloody therapy family, and now I'm more committed to the... psycho-synthesized teleport. Psycho-synthesized. And this method I found that I could that this goes together with my development myself to put together a little bit of meditation and work. So the way to work is more integrated for me. Now I'm positive since five months. But I'm very interested to know more about death and how to work with people because this is

[21:23]

The question, there are big questions, and to go with this is very difficult with all my self-knowing, and I want to know more about the Buddhist knowledge. My name is Andrea. And I came from Graz, but I'm living in Germany. So for me, it's an old and new world. This is the old world, and Germany is the new world? Yes. And I'm body-oriented. And I've been searching for my spiritual way for... Yeah, quite many years, but with other interactions, with more psychotherapy, my own process, and my hospital.

[22:36]

My training. My training came more important. So I'm interested in what, at what time is helpful. Is there a, yeah. I'm good. sequence or chronological sequences. And in my work, I'm interested in perception. I find there are ways to work with perception and I'm learning it in a certain way. My name is Dick. I'm living in Brutten. Now, since seven years, I live here in Brutten.

[23:39]

I got my first introduction in meditation by Kratt Brutten. It's three or four years I've met youth groups. even by working in a liturgy, by such special questions we have there, many people are bound with such dirty questions, and their questions according to the sense of being. For me, the more I have to work, the more I work as an apostate, the more I feel there's a conflict I moved up with LP and my cell phone was broken. The more I worked, I think I got trained or kept trained.

[24:41]

My consciousness is kept in a special way. By doing therapy. By doing therapy. And there is more and more in a special way of life. It's just conscious. And I think it's even broccoli input. And it's also training my awareness It's more difficult to know how to follow the way to believe together. And it brings that question to that problem here, how to handle those codes. By the way, do you need this translated into German? Would it help? No, I can understand. You can understand?

[25:45]

I can understand. Okay. Because it's easy to do, if you want. Yeah. Okay? Yeah. Okay. Okay. My name is Gerald. I work as a psychotherapist, and my main approach is gestalt therapy. I have a more and more systemic approach. And I practice Buddhist meditation since about 10 years, more like a Tibetan tradition. And yeah, as far as this goes, yeah. I was happy to meet you three years ago, I think two or three years ago, with you. The experience for me and your invitation together was to get a taste of suchness, obviously. Taste of suchness, that's the right word for me, maybe of, how can you say, more spacious perception.

[26:52]

Can I say spacious in English? Yes. More space, perhaps. And I would like to know more about how to be able to support the process where my clients also can get a bit of a taste of such a deep presence, more space. And I would prefer to do at least some meditation here. And I think maybe that gives the adventure for me, to be together and not know what will be the result. So, yeah, I think if we meditate together, we can also new questions can arise. I mean, I follow a source for meditation, of course, so I have good thoughts. So do I. I hope that's in my meditation process, thinking about some good thoughts.

[27:57]

Yeah. Why don't you introduce yourself and your meditation later when we go around. Yes. I am Sigrid. Sigrid, yeah. I am a psychotherapist and also teach psychotherapists. And also it practiced for some years now, because of the meditation. And also when I teach, so far I have not included meditation. You don't mention it to people? Yeah, I don't mention it. But you don't recommend it? If someone comes and asks me, I would recommend it. And I'm very interested in how can I integrate more.

[28:58]

And I want to meditate here at any rate. And yeah, both. Maybe there are also some exercises you can do, which I could use up when I practice for a while with others. What do you mean by an exercise? Meditate to have experience with yourself. I see. Specific practices people could do. In other words, we could talk about some approaches or techniques or ideas that actually cross over between psychology and meditation.

[30:12]

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I understand. Oh, hi. Nice to meet you. Okay. Yeah. I have started to practice meditation after the death of my father. It is really enriching my life. I want to integrate it in a better way in my everyday life. How can change my everyday life? I observe changes. I'm much slower .. There are changes in rhythms.

[31:19]

And I'm very interested in these kinds of things. And there are effects on in relation to people. That's . It's interesting enough, I think, from what you said, how do you combine vipassana and Tibetan meditation? That already is a question. And then psychology. And then we have a Protestant theologian. This is really... Okay. Yes. Yeah. My name is Lui. I work in for about 25 years as a psychotherapist. And with many different approaches, I came up with this 25 years. And my spiritual Experiences I had, a lot of spiritual experiences in my therapeutic and this program want to look at this area before I get involved.

[32:44]

And now I'm very interested in meditation. My practice would look much a little bit and it's, I think, it's consistent with the personal. here in the world, we have very much to have more meditation. And my interest is also, what do I get to actually learn with this, how to combine it in work. And I think it also comes in, always comes in a little bit in a way, by weight, to people and... But sometimes I doubt very much if psychotherapy is... Is... Is this thing to do with these people and orders? Yeah. Yeah.

[33:47]

Yeah, James Hillman, suppose he's given up doing psychotherapy. Yeah. Yeah. But it does sound like, from what people have said so far, is that meditation practice is giving you a chance to integrate psychotherapeutic ways of thinking about things in your own development more. Is that true? Maybe? Yeah. For me, I start very much questioning the lifestyle that is combined with Turkey and working with people and getting out from that. You have all these questions. By the way, it's easier at any point to speak German. She just tells me what you're saying. It must be easier often to speak German. Okay. Martin? Sorry? Yeah, all right. Yes, I'm sorry. I didn't have time for anything. And I've been interested for some years in Thich Nhat Hanh vaccine and Rauh Center, at least as you know.

[35:01]

And I've been interested in Thich Nhat Hanh Buddhism, Zen Buddhism, for some time. And I've been interested in this subject for a long time. and we just need how to bring together the analyzing and the practice of apply with this landscape. Yeah, I understand. Well, my name is Sartre. I come from Germany. I am on an electronic mission. I worked on that on one of those eggs. It was a breakfast. I still have a trauma concerning psychology and the electrician. In 1985, I organized a French conference about death and work.

[36:06]

And in the mornings, we put Hugh Richard on the program and had an introductory session before. Oh dear, what happened? It was a visualization for people exploring some basic emotional situations in their life and they are saying goodbye to them. He looked at me and said, well, this is not Zen, this is sentimental. And he didn't like it either too much. He break it after 15 minutes of meditation. So my question is, is psychotherapy of any use for a Western personality if one is engaged in a process called meditation? And maybe like I heard it a little bit further, whether psychotherapy or the effect of psychotherapists create the problem, that problem that I feel in Australia, that problem set, that is the, they need to create the problem and

[37:26]

There's one guy said, psychotherapy cures the problem it causes. That's true. Mm-hmm. I'm a healer and I practiced psychotherapy for 25 years, and I also stopped it because the last 30 years I worked in a therapy with schizophrenic families, and I didn't find any answers there. So I started especially healing myself with a lot of spiritual blessings, just with my hands. poor people in Dalaran at the school in Washington, in the state of Washington, and they just go back with them.

[38:30]

And since this time I do seminars with consciousness, I just feel less in sitting. And there are no problems. And I'm interested in the gap because I'm just interested in stillness and there are many. It's okay. It's just big now, it's okay. But as soon as you come out, people say, oh, the hell with that problem. And inside myself, there's still a little bit of psychotherapist. And this one wants to answer. But I know there is no answer. So I'm very happy to be here and go in and let people be by. And I just think it's so beautiful. Yeah, I understand. Thank you. I'm Crystal, I come from Vienna, and I've practised since 1976, and I'm the guy who was my master.

[39:37]

And this brought me to the work of Durkheim. Yesterday, I came from school, and I worked as a therapist with Durkheim. And he has a very natural way to combine consent and psychopathically. But I'm feeling that I can live this natural way, but still I would like to have more politics and a new way to use. Yeah. Yeah, I like that idea. 20 years ago, I wrote my examination to the theme of this we had Zen psychology, the great personality in Zen psychology. So it's quite fascinating that I'm here. And the first part afterwards, I did more psychology. I'm a school teacher, but I did several therapists myself, and bioenergetics, and was tired.

[40:43]

And I had an education in that. I think the problems of personal history, you can work on that till the end of your life, that you would be able to solve all problems. So my personal interest is the question. On one hand, I don't want to escape personal history by sitting and doing something different. On the other hand, perhaps it may be a solution. And the third one is that I study a special way of singing which is somehow meditative and something of therapy, though it is not intended by the creator of this method, just an effect.

[41:45]

And so I'm very much interested to compare these two directions on one end, Zen meditation, which I just started meditation one and a half year ago, and what ends in the end. Okay. My best religion, ethics, and psychology tend to approach being a scientific conception. And I already mentioned that an exchange of views, for a reason partly which you represent, and as the aspects to the same subject, that tends here to put the relationship on both sides. And I find the subject fascinating, or the subject in professional point of view is good point of view.

[42:50]

I am happy that I am in both the arts and professional, but probably in the more serious interests, in lay, art and other topics. Thank you. I'm basically a passionate natural scientist and natural science, biology and chemistry, for me, became the starting point of an intense spiritual search at some point. And it led me to India and pretty much interrupted my scientific career. After that, I taught at the school and working with people led me to psychotherapy.

[43:56]

I did a training with Arling Moore for several years, transaction analysis, and then came across Arnold Mindell. I also did process-oriented psychotherapy. But in the last one or two years I have experienced an inner transformation in the conflict between psychotherapy and Zen practice. Zen practice became my primary process. I would like to say something about how I have practiced with Ulrike in the last few years. Although she's not an official therapist, she's studied enough and lectured a bit on it.

[44:58]

And she also feels Buddhist practice and feels these psychological dimensions. That much of my thinking actually the last four years or five years has been developed through us thinking these three things through together. And she often notices things I don't notice and then asks me a question and then about three months of teaching develop another question. And also it seems to be a quality of translating is that in order to really translate, you hear it and speak it and you don't have any idea of what you just said. So she often doesn't seem to know what she just said after the lecture or after the discussion.

[46:02]

But then in some part of her brain it seems to percolate a few days later and she comes up with all these ideas. And I do want to say that my feeling is the way Zen Buddhism is often taught in the West. It is, well, not always, but often taught in a somewhat psychologically repressive way. And it's sometimes the Asian teachers who come here who are too traditional without having much sense of the West. Sort of just lay down the law the way they think it should be. And the problem is they don't know, Asian teachers often don't know what we don't know. And they often don't know what they know because it's built into their culture.

[47:47]

So they don't know what to tell us because they take it for granted. And then... Westerners who teach Buddhism in the West, who've studied with Asians, seem to me often to be, have been teaching, have not been studying long enough, and their teaching isn't, it's not interactive enough with Westerners. So this is one thing I think should be, that I would hope to come out of this, our colloquium together. It's a clearer sense of the ways in which Zen or Buddhism can be taught in a way that dampens and doesn't allow us to mature. That it is... That dampens our own psyche and doesn't allow us to mature.

[49:03]

This is how you want to come out? No, I would like to have it clearer how that happens so that we can, you know, have some antidotes for it, be aware. So since dinner is more or less ready, why don't we take a break now? We've been meeting for an hour. And is it okay to meet after dinner? It's now 6.15. Should we meet at 7.30? Is that okay? And then we can actually do a little meditation, talk about meditation and see what we're going to do together and so forth. It was very nice to meet all of you.

[50:03]

I'm looking forward to it. Zen practice is a yogic practice. And the first thing you're doing when you're sitting is attempting to sit with a straight back, moving the back toward the front, toward the chest. Just remembered what my father said, chest out. Well, it's a little like that. Your shirt should hang a little loose, not touching the skin in the back, and your shirt should touch your front. Which are not curving your back in, you're lifting up through your back.

[51:13]

And you're lifting up through the back of your neck. Which brings your chin in a little. And generally, if you're sitting like this or like this, you're thinking or something that's going on other than meditation. So this one aspect of sitting straight as a yogic posture is to really awaken the energy body. And make your body receptive to your energy. And the second aspect is to, as much as possible in Zen, to have an unfabricated, uncorrected state of mind.

[52:24]

And how to correct your mind so it's uncorrected is one of the actually subtlest and most difficult parts of meditation practice. So the basic instruction for uncorrected state of mind is don't invite your thought to tea. Okay, so the second aspect is an uncorrected or unfabricated mind. And the third main aspect is to sit still. And sitting still has many dimensions.

[53:35]

Probably for psychotherapists, the most important dimension is that sitting still breaks the adhesive connection between thought and action. See, when you can actually sit still, as long as you're not physically damaging yourself, but sit still through anything that comes up, and you eventually have the courage that anything can come up, any obsessive thinking, vicious thinking, anything can come up, and you know completely you don't have to act on it. It's the main way you create interior space. Which is neither you don't have to express something nor do you have to repress it.

[54:53]

You can just let it happen but not act on it. So those are the main things, to sit with the yogic posture. To try to leave yourself alone. And to sit still. So maybe we can sit for a little while. But since we're going to watch football tonight, I don't want to get you too calm. You won't be able to root for any team you'll start. Once at the Super Bowl game in America, I said, well, now the 49ers are so far ahead, let's root for the other team.

[55:58]

I almost had to be chased out of the house. So we'll sit a little bit and talk a little bit more about what we might do tomorrow. I'll start the meditation with three bells and end it with one. One reason we sit with our legs folded together is of course partly because it's stable.

[57:05]

But also you're folding your heat and energy together. And heat and consciousness are very closely related. So, for example, when you're sitting on your chair, from the point of view of Zen practice, you want to really try to get a feeling for your heat and try to warm your legs and so forth from inside. You'd want to compensate for not being able to sit this way. Let me tell you something, as you spoke about yourself, let me tell you something about myself that pertains to this seminar.

[58:06]

Of course I'm interested in studying all the different kinds of consciousnesses and so forth in Buddhism. But that hasn't been my emphasis in teaching. My emphasis in teaching is to find out ways in which the teachings can be accessible and implementable. Or understandable in English and, of course, in German translation. So I'm not interested in all the Abhidharma lists of consciousness. or the technical names.

[59:10]

I'm interested in what words or combinations of words we can find in English and German that describe basic meditation practices. So I suppose the emphasis in my practice and teaching over the last 30 years is to sort of create a new language or a technical language in English at least that captures the main... Zen practices. And I think that when you use another language, you're actually changing the teaching slightly.

[60:12]

I don't think you change it in a fundamental way, but you change how you put it together and you change a little bit the territory that's covered. So nicht auf grundlegende Weise, aber natürlich ganz leicht, so wie sie sich zueinander verhält und auch das Gebiet, das sie abdeckt. And in my desire to make the teachings accessible and implementable in ordinary life situations. Und mein Wunsch jetzt, die Lehre zugänglich und einpflanzbar zu machen in gewöhnlichen Lebensumständen. I've tried to pry loose from the surfaces and secret streams of monastic practice. Those teachings and practices can be brought into understanding in lay context. And I think of practice, and again, I'm just trying to lay some groundwork for some language to talk about these things.

[61:36]

I think about practice, maybe I could use the image or metaphor of a house. If you want to build a house, you have an intention to build a house. So already the intention means to protect you from the snow or the rain or what? Then you need a design or an architect or something like that. And then you need a carpenter or a builder. And then you also need a plumber and electrician nowadays. So a lot of the, I mean, the eightfold path of Buddhism starts with right views. And right views are the architecture.

[62:43]

And the carpentry is very important, but the carpenter has to know what to do. The craftsmanship is of course very important, but the craftsman must know what he is doing. So I think that much of our discussion can be about the carpentry, you know, details, how do you do this, how do you pick up the hammer, and so forth. But also Zen Buddhism in particular, I think within all Buddhist schools, really emphasizes how you understand reality itself as part of the practice. How you exist and how the world exists is also the conditions for the teaching and how we make an effort in practice. So in a sense, when you discuss Buddhism, we're going back and forth between sometimes discussing the architecture or how this world is or how we exist.

[63:49]

And sometimes we're discussing the carpentry. And then also, if we get into it in more detail, we're discussing the plumbing and the electricity. In other words, how your subtle body works, how your energy body works, how your chakras work, and so on. Then we can even go so far as expanding the house to cover the whole, to cover everything, or contracting it into a small seat. Now this is not, the usual architect doesn't do that, but in practice we do. So I think together, sometimes we're going to be talking about the theories of psychology and Buddhism and sometimes about the practices and what you do.

[65:09]

Perhaps in the end, of course, what's most important is how you live in the house. Buddhism sometimes gets so much into the structure of consciousness and so forth, you forget how you live in that. And live with other people in this house. So what I would suggest as a possibility is that tomorrow maybe we can have some discussion about what we all want to do. And one thing I might do is present the five skandhas.

[66:10]

Again, trying to create some vocabulary here. Five skandhas are form, feeling, perceptions, impulses, or what gathers things, and consciousness. This is considered in Buddhism a teaching as a substitute for self. You can almost think of the five skandhas as an inner tube or a lifeboat. And which you, maybe if we imagine the self as a boat. And emptiness is the water. How do you work on the boat when you're in the boat?

[67:21]

So the five skandhas is a way of shifting the sense of the continuity of identity out of conceptual thought and the ego into these five skandhas. Where you're half in the water already. So you can actually let go of them, just swim off. Or you can sit in your inner tube or lifeboat and fix the big boat. Now, one last thing is that there's a koan. I don't know if you want me to induce koans, though they're intrinsic to the most definitive kind of practice in Zen. But I'd like to bring up one I discussed recently in the Heidelberg seminar. Because it relates fundamentally to what we're talking about, I think.

[68:25]

is Manjushri says that to enter the gate of non-duality, he's asked, how do you enter the, he, she has asked, how do you enter the gate of non-duality? It's already an interesting question. How do you enter something that's not enterable or non-dual. And Manjushri says, the Bodhisattva Manjushri supposedly says, to my mind, in all things, And I can't remember exactly, but he says, no speech, no representation, no questions and answers. This is the way to enter the gate of non-duality.

[69:49]

And I might... Do they have a Xerox machine here? Yes. We might even be able to copy it if you'd like to see it tomorrow. Go on. So then Manjushri says to Vimalakirti, and how would you answer this question? And Vimalakirti is silent. This is sometimes called the thunderous silence of Vimalakirti. Now, there's a book on koans, sort of the answers to koans, it's out. And one of its comments is, Manjushri talks about silence, but Vimalakirti is silent. But this is a complete misunderstanding of the koan.

[71:07]

There's no... There is no difference in Zen Buddhism between speaking and silence. Speaking should be a form of silence. Silence is a form of speaking. It's really a fundamental Zen attack on mystic silence. It really means there is no silence without teaching. If you think you can just be silent and somehow everything will happen, yes, something happens, but it's not necessarily Buddhism. And it may be extremely therapeutic, but whatever that...

[72:09]

that silence will be formed by, just as this leaf, the leaves and pine needles are formed by air. Or we can say space itself has a structure which makes all these things possible. So at least in the Buddhist sense, we couldn't all just be silent now, and that would somehow be the teaching. And from a Buddhist point of view, that's basically a theological idea. That turns silence into some kind of an entity or a god or something like that. So Buddhism views the world as mysterious That it can't be understood, but it doesn't view it as mystic.

[73:33]

In other words, the mystic says, I've entered silence and from this silence now I know. Because I've entered this silence, now I can create a whole structure of meaning out of this silence. And the Buddhist said, if you're silent, just be silent. It's actually a form of communication. It's no more special than speaking. Speaking has therapeutic benefits. Silence has therapeutic benefits. One isn't more real than the other. So I bring this up because it's such a fundamental point in Buddhism as a whole and Zen practice.

[74:39]

The point being, the teachings of the architecture are a very big part of the space of the house. And even if you want a disappearing architecture, it's a kind of architecture. Buddhism is a kind of disappearing architecture, but still a kind of teaching. Okay, so that's about as much as I would feel it makes sense for me to say. After this, I'd like to sort of leave it open. For instance, if you guys, if you ask me to do the five skandhas in the way I do it, that might lead to a discussion about all kinds of things.

[75:50]

We never get any farther. Because here we're dealing with differences between non-graspable feelings and graspable emotions and things like that. For this technology of consciousness, it's also important to get to the vijnanas and things, but we might have to leave that to another year. But let's just see what happens. And it would help me if those of you who practiced with me in the past, like Ulrike, Martin, Peter, Gerald, and so forth, If things occur to you that I've talked about that led you to ask me to do this, then that's because I don't know, you know.

[76:57]

So if there's specific things that you think I should bring out, then I'll try to talk about those too. Also, wenn denen, die ich erwähnt habe, einfach einfällt, bestimmte Dinge, die ich schon einmal besprochen habe und die letzten Endes dazu geführt haben, dass wir jetzt hier zusammensitzen, dann sollten Sie es vielleicht noch einmal durchgehen und mich daraufhin ansprechen. By the way, I don't think Buddhism or Zen is only a mindology. But the emphasis is so much in that direction that for the sake of at least the beginning part of the seminar, I'd like to pretend it's a mindology, and you guys have a psychology, and then let's see how they fit together. Okay, anybody have any comments on what we're talking about? Or ideas for tomorrow and so forth?

[77:59]

Yeah. Now, you mean? Yeah. Oh, sure. I think we just would, I would like to have as free a discussion as we can. At the same time, if anybody else wants to, I don't know, let's see. Okay, yeah, thanks. Anything else? Martin's waiting for the game. No, it's only been going 10 minutes. By the way, one reason I... We sat before about 18 minutes, and I would suggest, no one wants to add anything, we sit down for four or five minutes. And the reason I do that is because I think people get too attached to the idea of, if I don't sit 20 minutes or 40 minutes, I shouldn't sit.

[79:01]

Just changing your pace and sitting down for one or two minutes, particularly if you're experienced, can change your whole day. So people who say, I don't have time to sit, they're actually caught in a gigantic lethargy shield. Which they can't see over the top of. Because everyone has a minute or so. Okay. Buddhism makes a big distinction between object of consciousness and the field of consciousness.

[80:13]

And the easiest way to notice that is through hearing. So when you're sitting, you don't really hear these birds so much as birds. But you just hear your own hearing hearing them. And you begin to hear them inside you like that just was the sound was inside you. Hmm. When you feel and hear them inside you, you've begun to, without differentiating them, you've begun to have a field of hearing.

[81:21]

May I make a couple of comments about posture? First of all, you're all sitting quite well. At least that's what it feels like to me. In the sense that you found your own posture, your own seat. And then it's just a process of relaxing more in your own posture. And I'm not arguing with any other traditions, but I'll make some comments from the point of view of Zen. In Zen practice, usually you try to have your arms along the side of your body. So you put your hands wherever your arms can be at the side of your body.

[82:55]

Again, this all has to do with, I mean, the main, one main purpose of Zen practice is, of course, calmness and calmness. But It's equally important how your energy and chakras and things work. So that this is considered to keep a kind of envelope around you more. You kind of move out of the envelope when you do this. I'm not saying this is right. I'm just saying it's in my experience. And so if you do put your hands here, you put them at some point where your arms can be more or less along the side.

[84:12]

And also, the more your arms are forward, it draws this part of your lungs, it makes this part of your lungs smaller. And also kind of draws you forward. And generally, then of course, because of the sense of making circuits, you put your hands together, but it's okay to put your hands together. So anyway, that's just comments from the point of view of Zen, not from the point of view of what you should do. So rather than, as I said last night, maybe I should do something like the five skandhas, I'd rather just have a discussion with you and see where that goes. What should we, what do you think we should do or talk about?

[85:34]

But let's start out with the discussion first. Yes. Three questions. Yeah, of everyone, not just me. Yes. Yes. First he said, something like, when you don't work on your karma, your karma works on you. That's it. If you don't cook your karma, your karma will cook you. So what do you mean by karma? When you don't meet long lives, it's the calm of this life, which may be similar to bad experiences. He worked in a psychotherapeutic process, psychotherapeutic process, to work on that as well. So, that's one question. Second, in my work, he made a painting and talked about the unknown, or non-conscious parts.

[86:49]

So what's the difference between the non-conscious part in Zen Buddhism and in Therapology? Of course, to me, it reminds me of the psychotherapeutic process, where the non-conscious part becomes conscious. That is to be very interesting, because in meditation, you separate between emotion and action. Now, in a subject that was processed, people, they discovered that the problem, the biggest force for personality is to make that separation. And then to put a lot of effort and bring it together, action, emotion, for example, biomechanics, You start with action, and then you put the emotion and have the unity of emotion and action, after that you have the personal history, and you act on what you have all these three together.

[87:59]

And then the person, that's the healing process. So, let me put the provocative tears that you produce as kids of personality by separating systematically emotion and action in meditation. Could be. That's my problem. So along these lines, does someone else have something? Along the same lines, we could amplify this question or these questions. No? Karma must be of some importance to psychotherapy, or the idea of karma.

[89:05]

What is that? Well, your first question was about But if karma is not from past lives, then what is it, don't you mean? Yeah. There's a difference between that, personal history, and karma. Karma is, as I use the word, is all of the stored experience you have, including the stored experience in various forms from your family, culture and so forth.

[90:09]

And I'd also say that, I mean, what we also notice is described as something called habit energy. And habit energy is the tendency to think or see a certain way. In other words, if I look at a tree, say, Even independent of my karma, any personal experiences, I tend to see the tree in a certain way. And I tend to relate it to myself. Is that a tree I like or dislike or something? Whether I like it or not may be my karma. But to bring the question up, do I like it or do I not like it, is habit energy.

[91:29]

So habit energy is actually in many ways more difficult to get free of than your karma. Mm-hmm. Now, unconscious and non-conscious, I use the words. Now, this I could use your help on, but generally I think of the unconscious as that material that's related to the self in some way. And the primary identity. And what doesn't fit into your primary identity or hasn't been assimilated, I would call unconsciousness. When I say non-conscious, it's just a word I use.

[92:40]

I mean many things, much information and experience that's stored that has really nothing to do with yourself. In other words, to put it in a classic form, for instance, all of you have a history of being a Buddha. But you haven't connected the dots. There's nothing, in other words, You've had experiences, this is one way to put it, you've had experiences that if you put together into and made your history, you'd say, oh yes, now I understand. This is what being, recognizing your Buddha nature is.

[93:43]

@Transcribed_UNK
@Text_v005
@Score_76.71