I vow to taste the truth of the Tathagata's words. I'm very grateful to fold my legs with you so many days. And for the most part to sit here quite comfortably. And I'm so grateful, too, that so many of you come back each year and several times each year. And that we get to know each other better. And... Better in some way that it's not easy to see, actually, or get hold of.

[01:04]

Anyway, but this is the essential way to practice and to develop practice. Anyway, you know how I feel. No, it's necessary to use, quite normal, and necessary to use your intellect and your ideas about things to approach Buddhism and to approach this koan. Like, this is a situation between these two men in which Bai Jiang isn't... really completely present and Matsu catches him up and so forth.

[02:23]

This is true enough and the koan can be understood this way. And it's necessary to get yourself up close to this story. But it's also necessary when you get up close to give up your ideas about the koans. It's a little like if you visit a city you've never been to before. Or a countryside or a forest. You need a map to get up. to finally reach the city or the forest.

[03:34]

But once you get up close, you can throw the map away. And just walk in the shade of the trees. Noticing the different kinds of shrubs and plants along the paths. And how the light filters through the different kinds of leaves. Or if it's a city, it's good to just walk along without any agenda, at least not at first to see any special sights, just feel what this city is like. Maybe you're walking along the streets between some buildings and high up you see passing over the city some wild ducks. Now these two guys, Matsu and Baijang, these two guys are Buddhas.

[04:51]

If there are Buddhas since the historical Buddha, these guys are Buddhas. And if there are Buddhas since the historical Buddha, then it is these two. And they are also historical beings who lived at a certain time and had fathers and mothers and washed their faces and so on. You know, it's too bad there aren't such people around today. I wish there were such people around.

[05:52]

It would make teaching so much easier to have such a powerful figure. But that doesn't mean we should give up. Even though I'm not such a good teacher, I still must make an effort to practice myself and to practice with you. But I'm actually quite greedy, you know. And I hope that one of you becomes, some of you become like Bai Jiang and Matsu. I don't think it's so unlikely, actually. And I don't think it's that unlikely.

[07:05]

And if your heart is deep enough and you love other people and yourself and practice enough, it's quite possible. Yeah, so I like to think anyway I'm helping you and your disciples to be like Matsu and Baizhang. These were quite subtle fellows, these guys. And Baijiang is, of course, well known in Buddhist... Matsu is probably all in all the greatest of the Zen masters, if you had to say, who had the spirit that influenced Chinese Zen the most.

[08:10]

Matsu is probably the greatest of all Zen teachers, if you can say that. He certainly influenced the Chinese Zen the most. After the sixth patriarch, everyone's spirit goes back to Matsu. And Baizhang is famous in Zen history for, at least it's said, it's not clear that historically it's the case, but it's said that he founded the rules for monastic life. Before, I believe, at least it's thought to be that before Baizhang, And then monks tended to live in communities with the Vinaya school, practicing rules that more came from India.

[09:25]

And with bhajan you get, at least symbolically, a move toward a more Chinese monastic life integrated with daily life. And the feeling we have in Sashin and even in this week before Sashin, it's probably a feeling that really... The elixir of it, the essence of it, comes from Matsu and Baizhang and Wangbo. And out of Baizhang, two great Zen schools developed, the Guiyang school and the Linji school.

[10:26]

And the other great school of the time was Dungsan School and the Yan Men School, which came out of the background of the Dungsan lineage. But all these schools, particularly in these days in Tang Dynasty China, wove together like a fabric and a rope and then opened up again to various schools. So the more you realize this spirit in your own life and practice, the more reading about these teachers is a family affair. And a family affair which stretches down into Vietnam too because Korean Buddhism, Vietnamese, Korean Zen and Vietnamese Zen and Japanese Zen all weave back to these Tang Dynasty teachers.

[12:15]

And they all tell stories of these teachers. Hmm. No. And if you want to read in case 11 in the Blue Cliff Records, if you happen to have the book, it tells the story of Bai Zhang's enlightenment experience with Matsu. And... Let's see if I remember the story.

[13:23]

Bai Zhang goes in and Matsu is sitting on his chair, sitting on a chair. Let's see if I remember the story. Bai Zhang steps in and Matsu sits on his chair. And if this was really a traditional zendo, there'd be a big chair here that you can sit meditation in, and it would be the chair in which the teacher gives lectures from. So as Baizhang came in, Matsu lifted up his whisk and said, Do you identify with or detach from this action? And as Baizhang entered, Matsu lifted up his whisk, which is a staff with a rustle on it, and said, Can you identify with it or are you detached from it?

[14:26]

Baizhang didn't say anything and Matsu hung the whisk up on the hook on the side of his chair. Baizhang didn't say anything and Matsu hung the whisk up on the hook on the side of his chair. And then Matsu said, later on, when you're flapping your lips, how will you help people? And Bai Zhang reached out and took Matsu's whisk and held it up. And Baichang, also, streckte seine Hand aus und ergriff die Whisk und hielt sie hoch.

[15:42]

And holding it up, Matsu said, do you identify with this action or detach from this action? And Matsu fragte wieder, identifizierst du dich mit dieser Handlung, diesem Akt, oder bist du davon losgelöst? And so, Baichang hung the whisk up. Und Baichang hängt also die Whisk wieder auf. Then Matsu made a shout. That startled Bajang quite a bit. And at this moment he was enlightened. But I'm not such a man as Matsu, so I couldn't do what Matsu did. Which is, Bajang said, he deafened me for two days.

[16:51]

And when he told his disciple Wang Bo this story, Wang Bo stuck out his tongue in awe. You have to recognize these guys are a little bit crazy. So they're walking along in this inner city where they've forgotten everything. Or in the forests or fields. And again, I think, you know, they're walking along a bit like maybe ducks flying together.

[17:53]

And you've seen all of you ducks migrating and wild geese, and they fly in pairs and in groups, and you can feel the field between them. So I think we can imagine that actually these two men are very, very much both in the present walking together. Probably not saying anything, saying anything, just walking along with, doesn't need to, you know, if I say so, it's already wrong, but some deep, unnecessary to speak about bond connection between them.

[19:24]

It's such a deep feeling that when these wild geese or wild ducks fly overhead, it's like they're dragging their trail right through the feeling of these two men. It doesn't seem like anything strange or unusual. The ducks are doing the same thing the two men are doing. And there's so much together that Baizhang just does whatever, without any thought, just does whatever Matsu says.

[20:28]

So as it says in the koan, Matsu in a way is making waves. But I'm sure he felt something walking with Baizhang. Now, I hope I'm not saying too much about this koan so that it takes away the fun of studying it and practicing it. But this isn't a mystery novel where if you know the ending, it's not fun to read it. This is a practice to begin to know that this feeling can be between people just as well as between ducks. So, anyway, they're walking and probably, as I said, Matsu feels something.

[21:39]

So, feeling something, he says, what is it? And he's making waves. And also he's pointing out, too, how to practice. And he's, you know, some, again, deep loving feeling between them and expressing that love. He says, what is it? And Bajang being very present with him and just going along with him without disagreeing, says, oh, wild ducks. Now, Bai Zhang's teaching in the future really emphasized the ground of our mind.

[22:56]

The space of our mind. A mind which, he would say, just don't engage your thoughts. A mind which you neither identify with nor attach to. Identify with or detached from. He's not talking about a concentrated mind. And he's not talking about a scattered mind.

[23:59]

There are many kinds of minds. This koan is pointing out a particular kind of mind that was particular to Bajang's teachings. The fundamental Zen mind, which is neither scattered and not concentrated, something very soft, quite willing to have your nose crunched. And in your own zazen, you can... It's okay, you don't have your nose squished. And in zazen, you can begin to practice, feel this in your practice, if you kind of have the feeling of, how in my practice can I follow something soft?

[25:00]

Soft. Look in your practice, if you're going to look for anything in your zazen, look for something so soft you almost can't notice it. Look for something you almost can't notice. And let go of the things you can notice. So you keep letting go of whatever you notice. It's okay if it stays with you, but if you can, easily let it go. Till you come closer and closer to what you can't notice. This would be a practice that would help you realize the feeling between these two men.

[26:09]

So in this walking together of these two men, much like the ducks, And Matsu, or the commentary, speaks about it from the duck's point of view, where they see the high mountains and fields. So he's not just seeing it from their point of view, the two men, but also he's seeing it, the koans looking at it from the point of view of the duck. Maybe the ducks flying along, one of them said, what are those two guys doing down there? And if you look carefully, one of the ducks reached over and grabbed the nose of the other duck.

[27:19]

When have you ever left them alone? So some such feeling as that was present with these men. So, but, but following Matsu for a moment. Bai Zheng engaged his thoughts and said, there was wild ducks. And he tried to see if he could continue the engagement. And so Matsu said, where have they gone? So, and Matsu, and Bai Zhang, as you know, said they've flown away.

[28:23]

And so, I always have to use her nose, I'm sorry, and I could use one of your noses, but I can't reach the other one. You know, so... When have they ever flown away? How do you say it in German? I like it. That could become a mantra. Can let's chant it for three or four times. Could you start? It's good, huh? That could be a kind of, it is a turning word.

[29:25]

So in your own life, when you feel anything that this may come up, when it has whatever, anything, how can anything fly away? So, you know, here we have, you know, what's in front of a horse or behind a horse in front of an ass. Behind a donkey, if you like. And what's this mean? You know, the footnote tells you. It means the radiance spiritual radiance or the brightness that we had in the first koan or the last koan of the moonlit flowers, snow in a silver bowl.

[30:50]

So this is not a small achievement. But, you know, this kind of bright spiritual presence, how is it any different than what's behind a horse and in front of an ass? So... So this is what I'm, you know, I'm sure this is what is a description of what these two men were feeling as they were walking along. They were in the midst of, we could say something like in clumsy words, an absolute present. What's the difference though?

[31:52]

For Matsu could not be drawn out of it. Bai Zhang could still be drawn out of it. And for Bai Zhang it wasn't coming from inside him. He wasn't generating it. It wasn't the way he functioned. It was where he lived but not from where he functioned. which reaches out and grabs the ducks, expands to touch everything, contracts, reaches and takes the handle, the ladle handle of the big dipper, As it says, the big dipper reaches down.

[33:10]

So it was this kind of subtlety that Matsu was introducing to. And he could only introduce it because they were already in an absolute presence. They were walking along already like migrating geese. But this isn't the same as what human Buddhas can do. It isn't. Whether they know it or not, this is where asses and horses live. What is particular to human beings is this realization from inside. Which is both inside and outside.

[34:19]

So he gives him two points to practice with. What is it? What is it? What is that? And when has it ever flown away? So this practice floats between, moves between, like electric current between two, anyway, between these two points of what is it and when has it ever flown away? So this isn't a static kind of awareness of space as mind. But mind making use of space as mind. Hmm. So they're the topography of the inner city or they're way inside the map.

[35:42]

The subtlety you can find out in your own zazen practice. If you don't bring categories to it or too many maps to it. And the maps have to get you into the territory, but after that just begin to let the territory speak to you. So Matsu, the next day, Baizhang takes away even the bowing mat, rolls up the bowing mat. And as the story says, he leaves Matsu's room crying. And don't think this is just some artificial construct.

[37:04]

He was probably really crying. I wouldn't say these two men exactly know what they're doing. They're completely present, but in this state of mind you don't exactly know what you're doing. I'm sure Baizhang had no plan to roll up Matsu's mat. The connection now was so great between them that they neither detached from nor identified with anything. They were just talking with each other using whatever is there. So he might have been deafened for two days or cried leaving his room. And then the monk comes back and finds, a few minutes ago you were crying, now you're laughing.

[38:13]

So he says, well, a few minutes ago I was crying, now I'm laughing. Here there's no distance. There's no getting rid of crying. There's no getting rid of laughing. There's no healing. There's no sickness. It just is sometimes crying, sometimes laughing. It doesn't matter. I think it would be good to... Even though I said this morning let's have a general conversation, I think it would be good to look at this case once more, go through it to some extent.

[39:40]

Do you agree? We've only really had one session together on it, so it would be good to look at it once more. Maybe it'd be useful if I read about that reference to Case 11 with Bai Jiang's second encounter with Matsu. You don't have the book, so I'll just read it to you. This story came up because Wang Bo, Bai Jiang's disciple, asked him what did Matsu have to say when he was alive. And he said, so Bai Zhang told him the story that when Matsu saw me approach, he raised his whisk.

[41:07]

Do you want me to translate sentence by sentence? Oh, okay, I'll just read the whole thing, okay. No, no, I thought we'd do it. We can do it different. When Matsu saw me approach, he raised his whisk. I asked, do you identify with this action or detach from this action? Matsu then hung the whisk on the corner of the meditation seat. There was a long silence. Then Matsu asked me, later on when you're flapping your lips, how will you help people? I took the whisk, I took his whisk, held it up. Matsu said, do you identify with this action or detach from this action? I took the whisk and hung it back in the corner of the meditation seat. Matsu drew himself up and gave a shout that left me deaf for three days. Wombo unconsciously stuck out his tongue in awe. Is it necessary that I say that again?

[42:13]

Yes? Thank you. I asked him, do you identify with this action or are you free from it? And that's why Matsu sat in the corner of his meditation seat. There was a long silence. And then Matsu asked me later, if you tremble with your lips, how can you help people? I took the broom and lifted it up. Matsu said, Do you identify with this action or do you have a distance to it? I took the broom and put it back on its place in the corner of the meditation seat. Matsu pulled up from the seat and shouted loudly, which made me deaf for three days.

[43:16]

How was the translation? Okay. So, what would you like to talk about? What should we look at? What do you think we should look at in this case? At least for a little while. What would you like to talk about?

[43:54]

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