I tried to digest somehow because there was something indigestible in that what you said. You mean, which part, what I said? The appetizer? The appetizer? I have always tried to imagine an individual story with the past and what is opposite of the past in the I try to imagine how the past or what remains from the past somehow fits into constellation work.

[01:07]

Okay, and during the break I was writing and writing and writing and now I'm going to try whether I succeed in bringing all that into somehow getting to the point with that. Okay? Okay. If I understand you correctly, these main signs support the individual to experience oneself as an individual. To perceive, the individual is supported by the Ma'am side to perceive him or herself as an individual. In terms of their personal experience.

[02:30]

Yeah, okay. And basically in constellation work, one is a representative, although one really is only a representative. Yes. So though you are a representative, you experience yourself as an individual. Yes. But in contrast to actual life during constellation, you can feel more vividly or more distinctly the role you are acting in constellation.

[03:40]

If I can be a representative, I would like to do something liberating. I don't want to fall into this right-wing trap of thinking to myself that I am who I am. And I experience it as quite liberating when I'm in constellation work and have the opportunity to act as a representative because I don't have to justify why I am acting in this way or another. You mean you're a representative in someone else's constellation? Yes. So my experience is that the role as a representative is more free and less burdensome than the role in my actual life.

[04:45]

But in the end I also play a role in my own life. My role. But actually in my own life I'm also, I'm as well playing a role, I'm playing my role. Yes. And for me this is a very difficult question. After the reproduction of one's own role or after the destruction of the past in the D-word, And for me this Buddhist question of repeating the old role or the past in the present and also how we are creating repeatedly our own reality And so the question I would like to pose or I would like to formulate is how do we notice that we repeatedly are taking up the role we are playing?

[06:13]

And the other question would be, how can we notice the condition that does not play any role? And I have an image or a picture that a system has something like a suchness. And that this noticing this condition where you don't play any role has something to do with noticing this suchness of a system.

[07:27]

And also another question would be, there are some kind of order. There's a kind of order, and the question is, how do we get this information about these orders? Not in order, not in the sense that they're telling you something to do, but... I understand. And whether this has something to do with this kind of suchness. Well, I would say... First, if anyone else has something to say about this, what Christus brought up, that would be great. But I would say that from a point of view of practice, what's important is the questions you brought up. Trying to answer them is probably not

[08:46]

what one should do. You should try to make, from the point of view of practice, you should try to make the questions as vivid as possible. So they have a kind of precision. So that in the midst of your momentary physical and mental activity, their questions are precise enough to let your momentary activity suddenly will It's like the questions here and your momentary activities go on and then some catches on the question and then you can look at it. And some sort of feeling of answers or satisfaction accumulates.

[10:09]

Now let me just say about this term again, mem-sci. Again, it's a very simple idea which I think all of us have grasped quite readily. However, the real impact of this term and the power and the opportunities it can present in how we notice our experience.

[11:10]

Takes weeks and months. even for the first stage, beginning to see your experience in these terms. Okay, good. Thank you, Christian. You already introduced this term in the last seminar and I had difficulties intellectually to He only had difficulties with this term.

[12:16]

Memsign and perception. And difficulties were... Because it's hard for me to imagine that it's not an inseparable unit, this mem-sign and perception. In the last seminar I was sitting outside and watched the forest. And you also suggested in the last seminar to somehow experiment with this phrase of just this.

[13:20]

And in this process of thinking about this perception and mem sign, this phrase of just this appeared. And somehow I got a first feeling for it, or a kind of... Anu? Hm? in the first intimation that there might be such a gap between perception and men's side. Good. Well, I'm so glad.

[14:33]

I'm happy that something works. It's beautiful. And just this is quite useful in kind of putting a little wedge between the percept in the mems. And we can, if we want, now that we have this distinction, we can say that Something like percept-only mind. Wir könnten so etwas sagen wie nur Wahrnehmungsgeist. Das ist Gewahrsein. As soon as there's a mem sign joined to that, you have the seed or the generation of consciousness. Und sobald so ein Gedächtniszeichen hinzukommt, hat man den Samen von Bewusstsein. And that's, I think, rather loosely called in Buddhism, samsara consciousness.

[15:39]

And it's called samsara consciousness because it's pattern dependent consciousness. Let me give you an example. I hear a sound. Then I hear that it's Sophia's... No, I hear a sound. Then I notice it's a child's voice. The child's voice would be a memsa. And the object of the consciousness that arises... from hearing a child's voice, the object is the percept. And then I recognize that the child's voice is Sophia's voice. And that's a secondary consciousness, which the object of that consciousness is the mensa.

[16:42]

Not one person. No. And then, as soon as I have a feeling of Sophia's voice, and I'm her father, I got mad at her last night and I shouldn't have, you know, whatever. There's a whole lot of stuff that occurs. Yeah, now... as I can hear in Eric's voice the syllable, the name, and the phrase all at once, if my mindfulness is refined enough, I can feel all at once, the sound, the child's voice, Sophia's voice, the memory, now another mem sign, that I was angry with her last night, I can feel them all at once and react to them all at once or react to one more than the other.

[18:28]

And the ability to feel all at once and react according to the emphases you want. We all do all the time, actually. But we don't usually experience it as happening in a space where you can see it. Like architecture. And we're more likely to hear it spatially, feel it spatially, if we're able to locate it. and we are able to stabilize our mind and our breath. Earlier you were going to say something, Angela. I don't know if it's necessary or if it's too obvious, but it made sense to me earlier, whether all body memories, these memory signs, are always perceptible in some way, when I concentrate on them.

[20:02]

And I don't know whether this is maybe too self-evident and whether it's necessary to say, but I think or I feel that all these meme signs in the body are... You can feel them if you are concentrating or if you are focusing on them. And for that reason, also, kinetics... Kinesiology is working because you can feel it, you can follow it, and you can see how it changes over time. And in some resonant way you can feel it in another person. But what I have in addition, there is a question. When you are looking at it or observing it, just as we said, with taking the torch and looking at it,

[21:18]

So what often happens or what I experience often is then when you look at it or try to focus on it, then there is some kind of excitement or acceleration of the pulse, impulsive, And what I notice that I am using in this kind of instances meditation practice to calm myself down, also to somehow to get rid of it somehow, because it makes me scared. because it's uncomfortable or it's frightening and not using meditation technique to look at it but to get rid of it somehow to get grip on me and to work again properly and good thank you

[22:45]

There over there. Oh, hi. Yes, please. What is your name? Andreas. Andreas, okay, thanks. Andreas. Okay, maybe this question is some kind of concretistic, but I don't know, in the sense that it's... Concretizing? Yeah. Okay. But how does it affect your action when you succeed in bringing a wedge between, your action towards Sophia, for instance, when you succeed in getting a wedge between your main science and your perceptions? How does it affect my reaction to her? Well, I would, in this case, which I'm imagining, you know, I would react to her, you know, so there's a lot of kids playing or something, I press down and I...

[24:13]

notice it's her voice and I was looking for her. It would be very simple. I'd just respond to her voice knowing that I was looking for her because we didn't know where she was. But I'd also be aware that she might be still feeling a little badly from the previous night, if we imagine I was angry with her or something like that. So I would wait until there was a recognition of that in her and then the permission for me to apologize. And then I would wait to see if there is a point where I can notice that, where she notices that and I feel the permission to apologize.

[25:24]

But I'd wait to apologize until she created a space for the apology to be received. I think any parent would If there would be a difference, it would be because of practicing mindfulness. You feel this all happening in a space where there's various opportunities to act and not in just Hey, we're all looking for you, where are you? Where I'm mostly in my own space. And what I'm describing, I'd be mostly in her space.

[26:43]

Someone else? Yes. I'm not quite sure yet whether I got this right with this meme science. And I have an example which occupies my mind for a long time. Very often I'm sleeping in the forest by myself. So when I recurrently make the same experience, sometimes somehow different, but basically the same experience all the time, is when I'm lying down and it's getting darker, I start to get frightened.

[27:57]

No, I'm sorry. My first question is, this getting frightened, is this a Mem-san? Yes. Yes, okay. So if this is a meme sign, I'm practicing since some time that I'm lying down and I'm observing what I experience, what I'm hearing, what I'm smelling and so on. And this getting accustomed with this situation, this process of getting more and more accustomed with this situation, and this situation is getting more and more familiar to me.

[29:02]

That's somehow like to substitute an uncomfortable mem sign with a comfortable mem sign. But how do I get there before... But how can I get from this mem-sign to the point where, before this mem-sign arises? You mean before you have your initial fear? Don't go out and sleep in the woods. I think you enjoy being afraid and so you go out and... Probably if it wasn't a little... Well, I'm looking for another practice, another practice. You wouldn't go out and sleep in the forest if it wasn't a little scary.

[30:08]

So please enjoy it. Yes. This also refers somehow to what I said before, is that sometimes I'm just shutting down. But on the other hand, I also want to open myself and to look at the problem I'm having. And then I'm trying something which we're also now doing nowadays in constellation work, is somehow to unfold the different aspects of a person. And I would like to ask whether there are some kind of meditation techniques for that, or whether there are any instructions of you.

[31:26]

Well, there probably are. But I'd rather not respond to that. Maybe an image which appears during meditation when I try to explore myself? So that's kind of like a deer show somehow, like different deers. How do you call it? Slides. I was imagining deer. Deer. Deer. Yeah, it's a different slide.

[32:39]

Some different slides where I'm in different ages and in different roles and these slides are changing. This is what happened in myself sometimes. Yeah, I understand. Me too. Yeah, I understand. I know that. Hiltrud? Hiltrud? The story with Sophia, which you just told as an abstract example, The story about Sophia, which you just presented, is a practical example. For me it was somehow described how empathy develops. So this refinement of perception in what's going on in this relation.

[33:39]

And then what came to my mind is that these mem signs are dependent on relationships. They can only occur in relations. Yeah. Let me just give you an extremely simple example. But let me start with a dramatic announcement. I'm getting younger. You want to know the secret? Have cancer and then get better. In other words, the radiation I had some years ago now, for radiation,

[34:59]

really weakened me. And it was hard to, I lost a lot of physical flexibility. And now, I don't know, it's four years or five years or something, Not all, but much of my flexibility has come back. Actually, only in the last couple of months I've been able to fairly easily put my right leg up. I don't know why, but I feel sort of dumb in telling you this, but anyway. So a moment ago, I was putting my leg up. But for a moment, my leg was kind of stiff in a way it hasn't been for a while.

[36:20]

So the stiffness is a percept. And then the secondary consciousness arises. Why is my leg stiff? And I create a kind of generalization, my leg is stiff. So then I shift the context of that noticing to what I call the yoga of the present moment. So, I find sometimes I practice with, at each moment I have the feeling this is the yoga of the present moment.

[37:44]

So, for instance, when I'm walking, each moment, each step of walking is a finding a posture. It's not walking, it's a finding a posture. And when I use this phrase, the yoga of the present moment, to focus attention, Each moment is quite special, full of sounds and smells. And, for example, the dirt of the path out here, each... little section of dirt has its own springiness.

[38:47]

So when I shifted, when I felt this a little stiffness or pain in my leg. First I had the feeling of, oh gosh, my leg is, you know, yeah. And then I shifted to the yoga of the present moment. And then my leg found how to be flexible right in the midst of that very easily. So in that, I simply changed the context in which I had the experience.

[40:04]

Okay, now related to that, similar to that, is I think we can think of, and this is something I mentioned, that you can change the theater of memory. And one of the big differences between, say, meditation and ordinary circumstances is that in meditation, you have a different stage or theater of memory. So when you're sitting, different memories come up than when you're in ordinary circumstances.

[41:10]

Yeah. That's all. So I think you can notice that in different circumstances, of course, call forth different memories. And... Yeah. Okay. Can I ask? I was amazed somehow when Sabine asked her question about her fear that this is a mem sign. Because what makes the difference between the stiffness in your leg and the pain and fear? Was ist der Unterschied zwischen der Steifheit im Bein und der Angst?

[42:26]

And then I started to think that when you have this fear and it's a meme sign, you have to somehow go backwards to a perception which somehow triggered this fear. Dann muss man zurückgehen zu der Wahrnehmung, die verbunden ist mit dieser Angst. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Now we're okay. We're more or less in agreement. Is this important? Yes. You're my buddy. Yeah. Yes. It was just a question because somehow, well, could pain be also a main science? Sure. Anything you add to the percept is a memsai. Yeah, but what is the percept? I mean, when you have pain in your leg, that's a percept. But as soon as I don't like it, that's a memsai. Okay. But it could be also, but is fear always connected with dislike?

[43:30]

No. So it could be a percept as well. Yes. If you like it or don't like it, it's a mem sign. It's just fear. I mean, if you're a thrill seeker, and you like being sleeping tied to the surface of a cliff, you know... But what if I... Well, look, this is simply an idea.

[44:32]

It's not an entity. It's a way of noticing your experience. Your experience is much more subtle than percept and mem-sign. But it's about as subtle as the mind can be to notice our experience. Yeah, Hiltry? Could it be that the assessment is an experience of being an ex? Could it be that judgment, or judging an experience, is what a person makes, turns into a mem-sign? Yes.

[45:34]

I remember an experience at Sishu, where I was in pain in the air, I remember a situation during session when I had pain in my hip. And first I named it as pain. And then it hurt even more. I'm sorry. And then I started to somehow analyze this and explore this pain, the quality of the pain. And then it disappeared. And I learned from this experience to use it as a method and inner irritations, which I call negative,

[46:38]

And I learned from this experience during Seishin how I can get rid of inner agitation or disturbances which I feel uncomfortable with to get rid of them by analyzing them. Yeah, it's the kind of thing we learn in Sashin. Some people go into the woods and other people go into Sashin. Yeah. They're not so different. I always feel like I'm going to the mountains. I would like to add other people go to bed. These are lofty softies. a kind of small and funny occurrence I woke up and my head was lying on the cushion and I looked to the right and saw the sweat of this pillow

[48:29]

And I looked to my right side and I only saw one tip of this pillow, of my pillow. And there was a seam from sewing on this pillow. I noticed that on pillows too. Yes. And I instantly had this image that this tip of the pillow looked like the head of a dolphin. Then I said to myself, internally, this is the tip of a pillow, but I could not look at this tip of the pillow without seeing it as the head of a trophy.

[49:42]

I had the idea this could be a memsign. Both are a memsign. You've seen something. But when you call it a porpoise, or I mean a dolphin, when you call it a dolphin, it's exactly the same as calling it They're both added to the perfect. And most of our men signs are cultural. In another culture you might see these things differently. And we could say very simply, dharmas are to change the habit of seeing implicit permanence to seeing

[50:58]

I hope that I can sometime during the seminar unpack some of what I said last night fairly unclearly. Because I want to speak somehow about how self is a content of consciousness. Or what I would call the emblematic self. But I don't feel ready to speak about that. But one thing I think I should add for our terminology term I should add for our discussion.

[52:19]

I would like to make a distinction between observing mind and observing self. Now, First of all, the fact that mind can observe, as I've said, this microphone or this bell, we take for granted. But if I can observe the microphone or I can observe the bell, Instead of observing the microphone, I can observe myself observing the bell. Nothing unusual about that. There's nothing more unusual about that than observing the bell.

[53:23]

In other words, we can observe ourselves observing. Or we can observe the mind observing. This has nothing to do with self. The observer is not the self. It's just a capacity we have to observe. But if I say, this is my bell, if, you know, again, we have this practice, this is not mine. This is not what I am. This is not me.

[54:25]

Now you take a phrase like this, which comes from early Buddhism. And you see if you can bring it in for the country. as the context for the appearance of MemScience. Now, let me have a little footnote here. I sometimes wonder if these distinctions are useful to you as psychotherapists and so forth. But I somehow have confidence, that even if you're not going to practice this with acuteness, because you've got a lot more interesting things to do. Still, in this seminar, we have an opportunity to become familiar with Buddhist thinking

[55:32]

And maybe it's kind of good that it's somewhere in your system. I mean, I know... All of you practice, most of you, to various degrees, but I don't think it's not the most important thing for some of you. Okay, so I can, again, we take the fact that mind and notices the bell for granted. Okay, now let me go rather return to this practice of This is not mine.

[56:46]

This is not what I am. This is not me. Now, it takes a little skill, yogic skill, to be able to bring this to each appearance. And it creates a different theater of association. It's also useful to And everything that appears, say, this is mine. Ain't yours, it's mine. Sophia's in that stage. The most obscure things are hers. I mean, I have something that's... you know, she says, this is my Raksu.

[57:56]

And I say, Sophia, it's my Raksu. Anything that appears... What she can see is hers. Okay. So you can try that on and you'll soon find out how ridiculous it is. Those trees, they're mine. Okay. They're Giorgio's. Yeah. Well, I mean the green, the perception is perhaps mine. But this is not what I am. Or it's also what I am. So you can play with this. You can say it's not, or you can say it is, or you can say it's also.

[58:59]

It has some influence on us. Now, if in general we get into the habit of using observing mind to define what belongs to us and doesn't belong to us. This is my cushion. This is my buddy. Pretty soon, I identify the observing function of mind with self. And pretty soon, I think of the observing function of mind as proof that there's a self. Again, I'm not ready to go into this yet.

[60:08]

Which we approached in verse a little bit in the last seminar. It's very important in Buddhism to study, to notice why the experience of self is so convincing. And there's three main observations. We experience, we experience We identify our experience of continuity with self. We identify our experience of unity with self.

[61:26]

And we identify our experience of observing with self. And we're completely convinced that there's a self here that's fairly permanent. And we make the things that we project self onto symbolically. we give them symbolic value as essential for our happiness, health and well-being. We may know, may sort of, they're not. But basically we act and project our future on the basis that they are.

[62:41]

So if you really want to study the way in which memory works in us, and which stored experience, which we can call the unconscious, and or the Alaya Vishnana. And these different concepts, the Alaya Vishnana is a different concept than the unconscious. And the different concept influences how we experience, how we act, through act in relationship to stored experience.

[63:46]

And then if we had Then if we add a third concept, non-consciousness, has also a territory of stored experience and acting. As ingredients of the present. As ingredients of the present. Again, I'm imagining oneself as a therapist.

[64:50]

But it really applies to, because your world is also always other people. The more one can accurately imagine engage oneself in the field of the present. The more one also accurately engages oneself with others, the more one also accurately engages oneself with others. You know, it's funny. That's kind of, for me anyway, a lot to say.

[65:56]

I have to sort of like... feel it and I have to feel it present in you as well as me. And if I can feel it as ingredients or something hovering within you as well, then you give me the opportunity to somehow But this is also an experience of unity. Now I'm defining what I mean by unity in contrast to continuity. So, I somehow experience a sense of unity here and together.

[67:01]

And I can focus that unity into a sentence. And if I have a narrow view, I can think that I said that. And then confirms my sense of self. Or I can feel more accurately we said that. And that's more fun. Okay. Isn't that Okay, good, good, okay. Isn't it time for us to stop? I don't hear a roar of yes or no. It could be also.

[68:01]

Good, okay. Somebody, I forgot what the initials were, somebody told me, and I think it's right, that it was Otto Kaiser, is that right? What? Oswald Kaiser. And where do you work in Chicago? Oh, for Henry Ford. He was responsible for the final manufacturing, putting together of Tini Lisi with Henry Ford.

[69:10]

He did the final control. And he would write, okay. He wrote, okay. I know first after his speech, by the way. And only when he wrote his OK, then it was allowed that this car would be of the assembly line. So from the assembly line to mass production, we have OK. Also von der Fertigungsstraße zu der Massenproduktion, ein Bestandteil davon, ist OK. Yeah, OK. Und wenn man OK sagt, ist man Theorist, ja. But when you say, OK, you are some kind of a theologian, What's that? That's a kind of, uh, terrorism is, uh... Honestly, it's like this. Yeah, to Fuzang, yeah, it's a kind of, uh, philosophy of how to manufacture things. It's not to have a craftsmanship, like, uh, you're making a bell.

[70:14]

A mass production, assembly line. Small, tiny bits and pieces, only responsible for, um, making in the bell. Yeah, okay. You stamp in the bell. Yeah, yeah. And then next person has to polish it or whatever. But I think there are lots of stories where this okay comes from. I know there's several versions. This is the one I like, though. I'm half German. Or half Austrian. Excuse me. Maybe you can feel in zazen or while we're sitting here quietly.

[73:15]

How we assemble the present. Perhaps it's more apparent when we're sitting still. But at all times, we're reflexively assembling a present. Creative. continuous feedback loop, assembling the present, which influences our assembling the present.

[74:05]

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