I know you're all waiting for someone else to do it, but you know. As I say, who will be second? Oh, there's Mr. We have one right there. Yes. I would like to say something which only indirectly has something to do with what we are talking about. Something personal. At some point here I decided to step out of social time and enter somehow a break. And I did a few steps into the landscape.

[01:09]

And then what happened is that I became very slow. And I noticed how the environment around me changed. And suddenly the plants and insects, water, suddenly talk to myself. And my breath is differently. Yes. And I'm dealing with a personal topic.

[02:17]

And that is my longing to be slow. And memories from my childhood come up. How other people, grown-ups, always messed with me to speed me up. And it's so beautiful to be just slowly. You know, the reality of this kind of experience, like the sentience speaking to you, reality can't be denied but it can't be explained.

[03:28]

Okay, someone else. You all knew you had to do this. Why aren't you prepared? Okay. Concerning the first question, placing yourself in immediacy and or the other choice is always being in immediacy. So my impression was that we all found that there is a difference And there are two ways to

[04:45]

of formulations that came up in the midst and at the same time outside or something like that. And the other was not mixed together and and unseparated. And the image was that immediately has no location. So that the location is our doing. And as a starting point, when we are in our everyday circumstances and somehow in discursive thinking, and we are dealing with contents,

[06:13]

And at the same time, on this very spot also immediately is there. And the point is the noticing. And that's the shift. Okay, good. So this was the easy part. The second part was more difficult. So the first two tenses, a successional time and a contextual time, we could somehow relate to this. What was difficult was with gestural time.

[07:31]

Gestural or gestational? So we came to the point to ask what is the connection between gestural time and gestation time? As gestural time, what came up was space time. And what came up was that successional time is that kind of axis. And gestural time is this kind of axis. Yeah. In our group it was the other way around.

[08:35]

Because the successional time is the personal own time. And gestural time is where the encounter happens. Okay. And noticing is for the matter of time. Hey, that's a good short definition. Experiential, good. Someone else. We did So everybody listens and you can refer to people who spoke before you, but a discussion is not encouraged.

[09:44]

So also for us it would be easier to deal with the first question. How do you say it in English? Immediacy? No. Unwillingness, to stand in unwillingness, has something to do with the fact that So there was a lot of resonance with the statement that placing yourself in immediacy has a lot to do with attention to attention itself.

[11:15]

And in that, enormously spaciousness opens up. And placing yourself in immediacy is the activity of connecting space and time. That's how we would pose it. Okay. And personally for me, and I think there was also a lot of resonance to that, for me there is this by itself,

[12:37]

And then a state arose in me, So the state arose, which I have known, but specifically arises among us, meeting here. So like in my feeling, emotionally, I'm going along a certain frontier or border. And at the same time there is joyous happiness, almost bliss, and at the same time a very deep frightening feeling.

[13:51]

It is as if the power, the incredible dimension of his statements, And that feels like the power, the unbelievability of such a statement, like it is taking away the floor beneath your feet. Unbelievably what kind of statement? Grasp it by itself. Grasp it by itself. And somehow this has to do with fundamental time. That's okay. Thanks. Okay. Our group, and I notice how difficult it is for me to bring it into words.

[15:40]

And I think the group will help me. We did a round first. At first, we spoke one after the other, asking ourselves how we are finding us here. And we, most of the time, we kept to the first question. In this distinction between being and placing yourself, we looked at what the difference is, and we looked at examples. And in this differentiation between placing yourself and being in the immediacy, we tried to find examples for this difference. ...

[16:54]

It can be a flow. And it's always an activity. Inmediacy is a gift. And it's connected with a flow. And what was the third one? It's always an activity. For me it was And Andi gave an example that was very important for me. And he was in a museum. And he entered the space and in looking at the pictures, he felt immediacy.

[18:16]

And we asked ourselves whether at this Schwelle step or threshold, it's necessary to have to make a decision to enter it. And probably this decision could have consequences and you can't know the consequences. Okay. The decision to be open for it. Yeah. Okay. Thanks. Yes.

[19:32]

So we first, we were occupied with all these different kinds of time. The question came up when memories or feelings come up from the past in In which degree is gestural time lost? Or the other way around, how do you create it? And we talked about that a secure reference within the body is an important prerequisite.

[20:36]

And at that point we shifted to the other topic of immediacy. Is immediacy an activity or is it observing of that which is? Okay, thanks. Mm-hmm. What also was important for us was how we can experience this fundamental time.

[22:04]

And these axes showed themselves? So we saw the horizontal axis as the sequential time where also this ripening and maturing and change happens. And the vertical was the gestural time where different experiences, occasions fall together somehow. And what I think about it?

[23:46]

Is this from the practice here, this concentration, away from the object, on the attention, From the point of practice, the shifting of concentration from the object to attention opens up this fundamental time. Okay. When I made my suggestion, did you translate, did you say gestational time or gestural time? I meant gestational. She said gestational? But you heard just, you're all speaking about gestural time. Yeah. Yeah.

[24:49]

But we also have the kinesthetic time and the maturing time, ripening time. Okay. So we talked about all kinds of times and tried to put them together in a big... Good times and bad times. Good times. No times. I mean, although I don't understand it and I don't want to bring it into a system, it's just the case that there are obviously many other ways to experience time and to get involved in it and to try to develop it. I just find it very fascinating. So for me, the experience that there are these different kinds of time and that it's possible to have them available and develop them and just like you don't have to put them all together.

[26:15]

It's just if they are available and we can explore it. So that's very exciting for me. Good. Happy, this can be exciting. And Brigitte, what is Hollister 19? It's like people get tattooed. with Chinese characters, you know, and it actually says shithead and they don't know. Oh, you show off your tattoos and they go, oh, that's what it really means. Okay. also in our group there was the hypothesis that it is a big confusion tactic of you that you are presenting us all these different kinds of time so that we just give up and fall into fundamental time Yeah, that's good.

[27:37]

But I can make it even worse if you want, and I will in a few minutes. Okay. Someone else? Yes. I would like also to talk about my experience. Yes. while we discussed and my mind tried to follow and despaired and didn't succeed failed at the same time I attained a very strong access to feelings And for eight or ten years I have been dealing with horror and interested in horror.

[28:46]

And during the discussion for the first time I experienced and felt it. And I felt that it is always here. And my mind is trained in a way that it forbids it. And it just had to be occupied. Yeah, good. Thank you. Now it's supposedly dinner time. Also angeblich ist es jetzt Abendessenzeit. But does anybody want to have something? Should we continue a little bit the discussion tomorrow? You want to say it?

[29:47]

I'm asking if anybody wants to say anything more, or should we continue tomorrow, or shall we just stop? Yes, question. She didn't understand the difference between the two times we meet up, gestural and gestational time. She asked for an orientation. A gesture tomorrow. Sometimes Buddhist teaching is called a gesture. Yes. Okay. So I said I would make it more confusing. The Hua Yen teaching of inner penetration says there's ten times.

[30:55]

Okay. Now, as I said, starting the discussion of time, a good beginning point is you are time. Okay. Another starting point we need, which isn't different, but we need the reminder, is there's no framework outside of time. There's no absolute time, there's no eternity. There's only this. We can understand it, but there's no framework outside of this. But, of course, You know, we want the Buddha to be eternal or the God to be eternal.

[32:19]

We want the truth to be eternal or something like that. But for Buddhism there ain't no eternal. Okay, so in that context, the Hua Yen has ten times. The first is the past, present and future of the past. Okay, so let's just take somebody like Baudelaire. He had a past, a present, and a future. And it was different than Vienna's past, present, and future. In fact, every human being had a past, present, and future. And there's no way to systematize that multiplicity of past, present and future. So there's three times of the past, present and future of the past. And you can imagine the next three are the past, present and future of the future.

[33:43]

My daughter Sophia is 12. And your daughter is almost 12. What is her name? Paulina. Paulina, yes, you told me. So Paulina and Sophia will have already are involved with the possibilities of the past, present and future, in the future. So now we have six times. And then there's the past, present and future of the present. Which we can't say any more about that than the past, present and future of the past. And the tenth is this very moment. which has to include all these past, present and future.

[34:59]

But there's no way to push it out into an outer system which you can understand. No, it is this which we are. And the only hope of knowing it and acting through it without duality is to place yourself in the immediacy of past, present and future. To place yourself in the immediacy of the ten times. Now this is just a conception to destroy conceptions. So now that we've destroyed conceptions, what can we notice?

[36:01]

And as Christina said, it's helpful to have these various things to notice, successional time. It's a way to relate to time, your own heartbeat, breath, metabolism. And the other aspects we've mentioned, ways to notice time, we maybe could review a bit or speak a bit about tomorrow. Okay, tomorrow and tomorrow creeps this petty pace. That's Shakespeare. And also, you know, in every Irish bar, it says, free drinks tomorrow.

[37:03]

That doesn't help. Thank you.

[37:16]

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