Maybe I should leave and you discuss on your own. I'm not going to do all the talking. Yes, Tara. Although the topic is not new, I still find it difficult to sort it out. Even though the topic is not new, I still find it difficult to somehow take it apart and look at it. As I'm so much identified with myself, it's very difficult to take up another position other than the self.

[01:05]

and there is always this observer who or which is aware of whatever is going on there's always this part of me that's very intimate to me. And even if it's a new experience, a new sense of space, there's always this part which perceives or is aware of this new experience and this point is very intimate and well known.

[02:15]

and I don't know what this part is, but I would say it's kind of the essence or the nucleus of myself. And then there is this self that is shaped by my history and my conditioning. Can I investigate this? And then there's more the self that's been shaped by my story and my experiences. And that self, it's easier to examine and explore that self. But the part which does the exploring. What is that? I don't know.

[03:30]

I have no idea. Okay, so you're posing two categories we might call self. Categories of experience. one being the sense of an observer, and the other being the sense of self, which is our accumulated experience. Okay, now, of course we can ask, does Buddhism mean the observer is a self, or does Buddhism mean the accumulated experience is a self, or all or different or more? In any case, It's clear for you, and I think for all of us, we can experience an observer.

[04:59]

And we can experience our accumulated experience. And we can then perhaps see them as separate or see them as overlapping or impossible to separate. Right? Yes, right. Okay, so this is already a rich territory for observation. Ulrich, you were going to say something? When I sit in the garden and I know that at some point a small animal, a mouse or so, has hidden, When I sit in the garden and I know that somewhere a small animal like a mouse is hidden When I just sit there and I'm very quiet hoping or actually knowing that at some point it will appear

[06:22]

then I don't find it so difficult to hold attention close. But when I'm looking for a self, then I have the impression it doesn't come out of hiding. And it is much more difficult to hold attention close. Attention is more kind of diffuse and maybe hovering rather than held close.

[07:39]

When I hold them close, then something like a conflict with intention or unintentional arises. and when I hold it close then a kind of conflict arises between intention, with intention and without intention or intention now and unintentional not necessarily but very probably Yeah, so we need to have something we can experience. So if we can't wait for the mouse or the self to appear,

[08:43]

In my mind I see a little mouse marching with the flags in itself. But we can experience attention. The attention waiting for the mouse to appear you can experience. So the smartness, it's smart to start with what we can do. So just bringing attention to attention is one of the keys for the craft of Zen practice. Because you don't have to wait for the mouse because the attention is already there.

[09:58]

Yes. There are two more fundamental attitudes or postures that I find important for my own practice. One became clear through your questions this morning. So one is to fundamentally, I mean, question the existence the existence of the self that appears so firm and solid, to be ready for that and to be open to these questions.

[11:14]

And the second that's important to me and where practice and Buddhist teachings help me or support me, is the philosophy that he puts in there, which means that one is not right or the other is wrong, but there is this thick experience of one's own, That there is not so categorically, it's either yes or no, but that the experience of a self is possible. It's also possible to experience no self or non-self, and that both these experiences can sit or exist side by side.

[12:39]

It's not that one is wrong and the other is right or something. So this is either or or both and. And thinking how we learned it was more either or. And through practice, we are encouraged to accept or explore both and. Okay, when you say, and that's how we learned it, you mean as a kid you learned that it could be self or it could be not self? Yes. How did your parents or your culture or whatever teach you anything about not-self?

[13:45]

So it was not a topic in my childhood to talk about the Salesforce in that sense. But I was told something is either black or white. And this that both can exist, that was not part of my upbringing. I think that's also what the whole Western culture, what shaped it very much, this either it's something right or it's wrong, but in the meantime it exists. And I think that all of Western culture has been really marked or formed by this, that either something is right or it is wrong, and nothing in between exists.

[14:52]

You know, you can have a chair if you want. Okay, thank you. So in other words, you felt that the either-or, true-false kind of bifurcation... influenced your way of exploring or imagining self and less self, or something like that? So now you're saying that through practice, you're saying that through a Zen practice, you can see that there's an experience we can call self and there's an experience we can call less self or non-self. And you're saying that the most fruitful way to explore these two experiences of self and less self or something is both and.

[15:58]

and you also say that for you a fruitful research is the question or the experience of oneself and the experience of less self or not self under this aspect to be researched both. And there's a first experience you brought up that you said arose through the questions I asked this morning. So the first that he said that had to do with the questions is, I mean, to be ready and to be able to pose these questions, not to take, say, the self for granted, but to be able and to be ready to question it and put a big question mark, does it exist at all? Yeah, to notice how it exists or notice if it exists.

[17:17]

Okay. And another problem that arises from that? When myself hears how great it might be without the self, Then myself says, yeah, I want that. Then we have a problem. So you have self-greed for selflessness. Self-greed for selflessness. Someone else, yes. In my experience, the self and the experience of less self is a kind of dualistic.

[18:23]

The experience of less self is a very blissful, wide feeling, experience. and that itself is like a tension, like a tense muscle, more or less sometimes, And the self is like a tense muscle, sometimes more tense and sometimes less tense, but I can feel it like a tense muscle. And the things that I don't like about Diana, the neurotic things, also take place more in this self. And the things or

[19:27]

Qualities I don't like so much about Diana, they happen in this tense also. Diana? Diana, what's her name? Oh, I see. And she used her name for herself. I see. What I realized today is that the experience of less self unfortunately takes place more I practice alone and in contact with others somehow in a verbal contact. And what became clear to me today or this morning is the experience of less self happens more when I am by myself and I practice by myself, but in contact with others, especially in verbal contact with others, it kind of disappears.

[20:35]

Okay. Yes? This morning after your questions I had an experience and I had the feeling that the activity of attention I had the feeling that the activity of being attentive is the only activity, the only continuity there is. In that process there was only my posture and attention and nothing more. When my posture was not painful anymore, I had the feeling that there was nothing left, but then it was also difficult to stop the attention.

[22:15]

Then I had the feeling there is nothing at all, but then at that time it was very difficult to hold attention. And then associative mind arose and was occupied with my patterns. And then I experience attention more like the observer who or which notices that this happens. And if it is the attention that feels like continuity, it's more like the feeling of a stream.

[23:36]

And the other kind is more like trying to grab a box. Out of the air. Yes, thinking of thoughts. So you said attention is the only continuity. I felt this morning in satsang. Could we say that attention makes continuity experienceable? Because when you go to bed at night, you're asleep, but you decided to go to zazen in the morning.

[24:46]

So there's an assumed continuity that somebody who still will go to satsang in the morning wakes up. Yes. But you didn't experience that continuity in the same way. Yes. So if I'm summing up what you're saying accurately, Then experienceable continuity is quite important. But there is continuity happening outside of our experience as well. Noticing continuity, both experienceable continuity and continuity you don't experience is important.

[26:12]

If you're going to be a way seeker. Someone else. Yes. I want to tell about the time when I still lived in the north and there are very big areas where birds are protected. In the morning I had to take the children to school, very early in the morning, and there were huge flocks of thousands of birds, often in the sky,

[27:16]

At every morning I drove my boys to school very early and very often there were huge swarms of birds were in the sky. And from far it looked like being like forms or formations that changed forms and were flying about like maybe huge ghosts. And when I drove along in the car that reminded me of how myself kind of functions.

[28:35]

In this flock of birds there are birds making decisions on the basis of feelings, and others decide on the basis of And a lot of birds are carried by something where they fly to. And many birds are carried along in the sky, I mean, influenced by the wind, the sun, or who knows which influences their way of flying or where they fly.

[29:54]

And this beingness is a kind of activity? Okay, so you're saying that the patterns, let me try to put it in other words, is that the activity of aliveness creates patterns and those patterns affect our aliveness. It's interesting that at every level of happening patterns appear, whether it's galactic or cosmogonic or planetary.

[31:05]

Or ten birds or ten thousand birds. or whether there are ten birds or ten thousand birds. Okay, yes. Regarding attention I would say that on the one hand I know the experience of attention to something, Referring to attention, on one hand I know attention as being directed towards something and that sometimes seems that it costs a lot of effort and then there is mindfulness which is more relaxed and more like a field.

[32:12]

I find I'm kind of there. I want to put something self. I wish more relaxed. This is a reduction. it's not quite clear to me where as we are But the area of these two tensions are closely chained up out of the way. Okay. And I also have tension, which is direct.

[33:29]

Tension is more something I do, whereas seducts feel like I do. Oh, it's more feeling. Okay. Thank you. Yes? Got it. And I grew up to worry. Were the terms that came to my mind when I passed into heaven? Mm-hmm. I'm small, but I love this. I love this. Man, you are such a big ghost. It could be that the experience we have with the Lips, we have with the Lips to and fro, and the other experience with the big one, could be the same topic. Or create a planet that one experience is a cave, one is a small mind, and the other experience is a big mind, and that mind must be two different things for the same difference.

[34:44]

So in other words, first time I question. Where did? In the other house. Oh, OK. Well, Sukyoshi might well have said big self and small self. Okay, so this is an interesting point bringing up. What's the difference between the experience of a big mind and a small mind? What is the name of the experience of Clutchman and Grossengeist? Ischman. Are you angry?

[35:48]

Are you angry? [...] I'm just an experience of self in small I. And can I boot it? I'm just an experience of self in small I. And can I boot it? I'm just an experience of self in small I. Okay, what else? And I'm sitting. Yeah, in the housing, we've been on it's decent long hours before it's been closed.

[36:58]

Yeah, I was like, you go right, you must follow on that. But, uh, these questions are not so, uh, immediately related to this, uh, thing. Oh, you mean the question before? You mean... Yeah. Oh, sure. Uh... It's nearer to going to do but of staying of attention is more and more. Yes, I think for what that's a quality I attend. Mm hmm. And Kiesler. And Kiesler. Yes, it is very difficult for us to communicate in real time. I am very aware of what is going on. This is something that really annoys me. The word myself is something that accompanies me.

[38:17]

I've heard that the only physical identity that I have is a fortune. But I miss that. And it's that she's horny. at city there, but I also read the problems, and it's, uh, you know, uh, I can't, uh, uh, uh, And I try to immediately look as much as I can so that there is no distance between attention and what my attention is put on. I notice when a circumstance is then and also when there's a judgement. And last night, I had a short walk before Zazen.

[39:39]

I had a good feeling about it. I was very happy. My O.D. would have to know what it is. Oh, it was a good fit for TV. I couldn't have, um, was, what to know. It was with your slow devising that you think that slow devising and so on and so on. Well, it's... I mean, pretty near of me, there was a little fuck on me. Sex and the little sex. And right in breath. It's mainly a feeling of fun.

[40:40]

Why feeling? What is his type? [...] And this happens very quickly. When I suddenly see myself in a position, I try to grasp what I would like to keep. Like this. Maybe this. Yeah, so you're experiencing self-continuity.

[41:49]

A continuity of self-experience or something like that. Which implies maybe that there's a continuity which is not self-continuity. You hope so. But for you they mostly are the same. Until a fox appears. A big mouse. And this fox has had its own continuity for some years. And you know it's living in its own continuity somewhere. And suddenly its continuity overlaps with your continuity.

[42:51]

It makes you happy. Okay. And then it disappeared, yeah. But it's still out there continuing somewhere. Yeah, we hope so, yeah. As I've been continuing the last few months until I have seen you. They've been away for a while. Or not here at least. What time is lunch? One o'clock. One o'clock, okay, thanks. Thanks for making it for us. Someone else? So this is a territory.

[43:55]

This is a big part of the territory. we have to make ourselves we decide to make become attentive to if we're going to explore how we exist. And if we exist primarily as a self. Or primarily through the experience of self. Or are there ways we experience things which it's probably a mistake to call the self.

[44:57]

Maybe some things we call the self are not really the self, and at least not what Buddhism would call the self. In the break when I went upstairs to the little room up here where I have a desk and a book The book I had, I just, by chance, I just picked it up and opened it by chance. And I opened to something about a teacher named Wong Long.

[46:08]

Wong Long? Yeah, H-U-A-N-G, L-O-N-G. And he lived from 1002 to 1069. Pretty much exactly 200 years earlier than Dogen. So here's this guy who lived for 67 years. A dyslectic reversal of my age. Okay, so he had his 67 years. I have or are in the midst of my 76 years.

[47:15]

And this guy lived 200 years earlier than Dogen. And we're studying Dogen. And right now, in a sense, we're studying Huanglong Huainan. And he also founded a branch of the Linzhi school, the Zen Rinzai school, which had generations of teachers for 150 years. All living, or at least many generations of them, continued to live on the mountain called Huanglong.

[48:18]

Well, America is not much older than 200 years. And here's a school of Zen which existed for 150 years on one mountain. And they were studying just what we're talking about. And so Huang Long said, to his monks. I'm just reading what I opened to. Before I came up here to speak to you there was nothing in my mind. Now that I'm here I have a lot of questions. It is said that the way of Zen is transmitted, taught outside of the scriptures, outside of the sutras.

[49:42]

It is transmitted to individuals who are Dharma vessels. Which means it can't be found in words. Even if you ask lots of excellent questions what's the point of doing so? if it can't be found in words. You who are way-seeking, you should just open your eyes. Okay, and what I'm suggesting is we can use some questions to open our eyes. So we're not seeking through the questions so much as seeking through the way questions can open our eyes.

[50:57]

But if we do talk about it, he says, Well, we can say that it can't be realized through mystical perception. It cannot be realized through mystical perception. Or through perfecting the self. Nor can it be said to be the result of some all encompassing understanding. The Buddhas have only said, you must know yourself. Okay, so it's not in scriptures, but if it's to be known, it's only by knowing yourself. And knowing yourself can't be explained by the entire canon of Buddhist teachings.

[52:20]

In the ancient meeting at Vulture Peak, there was a vast multitude assembled. But only Mahakashyapa understood. So this kind of story means that if this is going to be understood, it can only be understood by you. You can't leave it up to others to understand. And he says, the fifth ancestor, Huang Mei, had an assembly of 700 monks. But he passed the robe and bowl only to the pilgrim, which means a way-seeking person.

[53:33]

Hui Neng, the sixth patriarch. Okay. Almost through. But no, maybe we'll never be through. Okay. He says, can you overcome these things and carry forth our school, our teaching, our lineage? Those who leave home. Now, leaving home means that you leave your identification with your personal self. And you leave the identification with your cultural self.

[54:53]

This is difficult to do. And particularly for lay persons. Because you're always constantly reaffirmed in your cultural self and your personal self. so we could say that the practice is to cut off the personal self and to cut off the cultural self and then we could say and to re-enter the personal self and to re-enter the cultural self. And the re-entered cultural self is not the same as the identification with the cultural self.

[55:54]

So I know you're only here for the weekend. Your life is in this weekend. But in any case, this practice we're dabbling with or dedicated to dabbling, needs to play around, yeah, expects this kind of realized practice, realizing practice. So those who've cut off, those who've left home, must have the resolve of a hero. They must cut off the two heads of delusive attachment and entity-ness

[57:01]

and practice in the seclusion of the house of the self. So I was happy I opened this, because it's just what I said this morning. A full thousand years ago. We're still doing the same darn thing. Yeah. And so he says, practice in the seclusion of the house of the self. So I'm saying, to practice in the house of the self, we must bring the self into view. And I'm suggesting we bring the self into view through the practice of closely held attention.

[58:24]

I hope, which doesn't have to be too much work, as you said it sometimes is. And just be relaxed in this immediacy. with no place to go and nothing to do and if you can practice in the house of the self with these examining questions of what is attention What is continuity? What is agency? And coming to realize this, now just throw open the door, he says.

[59:41]

Get rid of that possessive self. and receive and meet whatever comes. There's nothing else to do. Okay, thank you, Wong Wong. Nice to have your help. Okay, so let's sit for a few moments or a few minutes or a few lifetimes. Someone gave me this the other day. I wonder how old he is. His posture could be better. But he might not be. At his age.

[60:55]

Yeah, maybe it's good posture for his age. Let's get his beads. You can straighten up a little, please. But he's ready. to practice alone in the house of the self.

[62:11]

Maybe we find the door we can open. Let's find the door we can open.

[62:20]

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