Otmar mentioned that you're in the middle of a discussion. And that we ought to continue. And that I ought to join you. So here I am. Whoever is next in continuing the discussion, please do. Oh, please. I suggested to make a break, so I should continue. Maybe you can just do it simultaneously. So if you lean over this way. Okay. Okay. When I think back to when I was very little, I always thought about what happened when my parents died. I remember that I always had to

[01:01]

I had the problem that my parents would die someday. I was always concerned with that. I was lying in my bed at night. It was very sad. But that was just the case. I knew impermanence existed in my life. overshadowed my and I think from that never a word came into existence that felt conclusive or whole the world for me was always filled with questions or without conclusive answers oh well Paul where is Paul Oh. Paul, you're left out. Not really. Oh, yes, you are.

[02:10]

But thank you. But, Paul, you can sit next to Marie because she can... I'm going to... Excuse me, I'm going to leave in a minute. Oh, you have to leave in a minute anyway to pick up your spouse, Aroni. Yeah, okay. Well, until you leave, why don't you just say it aloud after it, yeah. Yep. So go ahead. We all prefer that it's not simultaneous. I prefer that. You prefer it's not simultaneous? Yeah. Okay. All right. I have a hearing aid, you know. Okay. So please continue. I used to pray every night. that I would die before my parents, so I wouldn't have to go through their death. It's the only time I ever prayed, I think. Anyway, go ahead. I think that was already it. When I think back, that was one of the beginnings.

[03:25]

And my father was seeking the way, and I just followed him. Good old Papa. And Ben ended up here. Yeah, okay, thanks. Who is next? It's the right order, of course. I can't really tell you about the experiences, but what Paul said was similar to what I said. What the culture offered me as an answer was my feeling that it was not right or not helpful or something like that.

[04:33]

In that respect, I was always surprised. I can't really speak about any particular experience, but as Paul already mentioned, I had this feeling that culture somehow didn't provide me with satisfying answers and in the sense I've always been seeking. I had questions, for example, what does money hold together? Yes, so in terms of quality, not many. And when I read a lot, then came such formulations as the world of appearances. And of course I asked myself, what is meant by that? I had questions of the kind, what is holding the world together from the inside, that kind of, that quality of questions.

[05:35]

And when I read, I read about things like the world of phenomena. Of appearance. Of appearance. And I want to know what they meant. In my childhood there were a few experiences that were quite physical. One night after a thunderstorm I was supposed to go to bed and I was hopping, jumping and I had the feeling I could fly.

[06:41]

There was a great physical ease, but at the same time connectedness. And another area was always in the context with singing. Whether in children's church or maybe on the swing in our garden at home. There were very deep experiences of which I've lost the feeling throughout the years. Somehow I've always been seeking for that, but I never could find the access again. And when ten years ago at a congress I heard a lecture by you I all of a sudden realized and it became clear to me that this is the track.

[08:04]

And it was like a juncture exactly to these feelings. And that's why I followed it and then ended up here. What did I say? Just connect. Yeah, mustard. I'm glad it worked. There's a track upstairs. Thank you. Who's next? Maybe I'll continue. As long as I remember, I've been fascinated, almost obsessed by death and also by birth.

[09:28]

Although I wasn't aware of it at all. And somehow, someday, when I was really stuck with this feeling of not being able to help people who were dying, I was given my beginner's mind and somehow I felt that whoever this guy was wrote it was just as crazy as I. And then my curiosity brought me to the steps of

[10:53]

300 Page Street in San Francisco. And a big fat monk came down the stairs while I was carrying my suitcase upstairs. It wasn't me. Maybe Philip Braylon or something like that. Philip said, you run away from home. He said, you run away from home. So I almost got into the taxi again, but something made me enter the building. And the minute I stepped into the hallway I felt this is home.

[12:28]

To be continued. And you went on, though, to help people dying. Sure. And I also went up some other stairs and came to the Kaisando. Where a few bald-headed guys were butching around. One of them looked at me and said, who are you? And I just blabbered, I'm so-and-so from there and there, going here, up there.

[13:36]

And much later it hit me, who are you? And I just blabbered, I'm so-and-so from there and there, going here, up there. And much later it hit me, this question, who are you? End of the story. Not really. Never ending story. Neil, were you going to say something? In the class, when the confirmation was going, the only one who said, I just can't sign it, I can't pronounce it, and then I really didn't take part.

[14:48]

And then it always went like this, and then I thought, I found it again later, bought Boddha's speech, and I think my parents with it, and then it disappeared again. Dozens of years later I bought The Lighting Path of Zen in Buddhism and put it in my closet. I didn't read it for years, but somehow the hand has already grasped it. Then, when I got into some professional difficulties, I thought, something is really missing here, so I started to sit down for myself. And then I really started reading, and I always looked, I never wanted to have a teacher, I always wanted to do it alone. I always looked for places, I read a lot, how can it be without it? And I sat down for myself for eight years, every day. And then came the round lecture, which I think some people here in the room heard. Then I met our beloved teacher and that was it.

[15:52]

And then the next year the events started and the case became clear. And then there was such a thought. The experiences, I can't really say. Under the surface there was such a life that became clear from time to time. For example, a car accident. as a bar driver on a mountainous road in North Norway, and the bushing breaks down and the car slips, so a very steep bushing falls down, two very thin young trees are held up, only completely collapsed. And I remember very clearly, it was like a head under water, the ignition quickly turned off, the petrol blocker came out, the light could not burn, the turbo went off. That was such a functioning of complete clarity. Just get out of there quickly if you have to. And that was... And that was always such unspectacular...

[16:53]

It was also spectacular. It was easy to function. And the right actions were nothing special. There was no fear or anything. And I think that's what accompanied me. The direct action without... Most of the time it was mostly unconscious. And that's where I actually started to... Also, da habe ich einen größeren Zugang zu bekommen, eigentlich. Und deswegen auch to be continued. Soll ich das etwa auf Englisch sagen? I came to being here mainly through reading books. I looked for a way to practice without a teacher, so I sat for eight years on my own. and had experiences which I found not spectacular, which were just the pure functioning, like in a car accident, to be clear, not a bit of fear or panic, but doing what is immediately necessary, like putting out the ignition and getting out of the car, like these things.

[18:26]

This is just an example where it was quite... quite black, conscious also. I think this has accompanied me for most of my life probably, but hardly ever being conscious like this. Then after having been sitting for, I think about eight years or so, I met you, the pregnant oyster. I was substituting for Father LaSalle. It was not because you were a substitute. I knew who you were because of, no, of course I knew your name because I knew who had written the foreword of the book, precious little book, and so I was interested, but you were the only one left. I did plan to go and see you and tell you. Yes.

[19:26]

The earliest experience where I can remember that moved me very strongly was when I was a child and was lying in bed in a full moon night and I saw through the window and outside clouds were passing by, The first experience that really touched me that I remember was when I was a child and I was lying in my bed and I watched out of the window. It was a full moon night and clouds were clouds were passing by. And I remember very clearly that all of a sudden the sense of my body and of I entirely disappeared, and all that was left was the night sky. And when I noticed that, and it also stopped, of course, but a few days later I started to be afraid because I realized I could not talk about this with anyone.

[21:07]

Yes, then when I got a little older, so at the age of five or six, my parents started to look towards India and then in the 1970s they were in India several times and had visits to yoga ashrams. And when I got older, like six or seven, my parents started to look at India and they also did a few India trips to do yoga. And they came back and really tried to enact ashram life in their everyday life. They were quite motivated to do this. And I remember I was fascinated and repelled at the same time.

[22:27]

And I remember I was fascinated and repelled at the same time. And I remember I was fascinated and repelled at the same time. And I remember I was fascinated and repelled at the same time. It has changed a lot. And a lot changed since then and I just got a very different kind of access to power or force.

[23:28]

Well, my parents always gave me extreme farewells. When I got even older, some years later, my father took me and my brother with him on hikes. My parents lived their life in different sections, kind of. And when I still was a little bit older, my father took me and my brother on a hike, a long hike. We were hiking through Austria, first of all. Genau. and we were there for three or four weeks and sometimes only one week, depending on the situation. This trip lasted for three or four weeks usually, but sometimes it was only one week, but throughout the years we went the entire way through Austria and then through Yugoslavia.

[25:00]

I had to learn to survive. I carried my backpack, just like my brother, and we just went over the mountains as they came and down again and always the way forward. The reason why I speak about this is because I really had to learn how to survive on this hike, on this trip. I was carrying my backpack just like my brother and we went up this mountain and then down again and just went straight, just went the path as it came. I still remember that every time I knew after a week, okay, it works when I breathe well and then I don't have any pain and it's going well, and then I get to a 2,000 and I'm not particularly shy at the top. And I realized quite soon, like after a week or so, that it would work pretty well if I just breathe correctly, if I pay attention to breathing.

[26:17]

I could then hike up on a 2,000-meter mountain, and once I'm up there, I won't feel too exhausted. And when I was 12, I started painting. And I discovered that for myself and I painted all night long sometimes. this background again through the breathing, that I simply felt this night, how it passes, how it is repeated. So not so the painting, that was also beautiful, but rather this feeling of being able to see far away. And what happened for me there was mainly to see the night pass, to see the night come and then see the morning dawn.

[27:31]

It was not all that much about the painting, even though that was nice too, but it was going back into this kind of feeling. And I think one of the reasons why I am here is because I really wish for myself the opportunity to be able to go further in very ordinary circumstances and to be able to live these aspects. What she said in the comment before was also, and then there would open wideness, vastness, thank you. This vastness would appear, and now she says, I believe that one of the reasons why I am here now is that I really wish that I can find this vastness in usual or ordinary circumstances.

[28:33]

I'd love that. and to learn how can I share this with others as well. Yes, who else? Yes, Felix. I have been laying for a long time, and I have been sent out for a long time, Since I met you, baby, I'm as happy as the neck. I thought about it for a long time. Sorry, I would have to tell us a very long story, but I start here. It's cold. I want to hear your voice. I didn't say anything in the seminar. What did you say at the beginning?

[29:37]

What did you want to say in the seminar? I didn't contribute anything. I just wanted to hear your voice. And in the seminar I didn't contribute anything and when I was leaving you said to me, I want to hear your voice. The call. Do you want to hear my voice? Since then I'm hearing your voice from the space you call nowhere to go, nothing to do. Paying homage to this voice which is called no voice. There's nothing to say but thank you for calling. So that's one of the babes. There's three sticking out. Why I met you was because I met Sogyal Rinpoche.

[30:39]

Sogyal Rinpoche told me, if you see, if you have the opportunity to see Daiguroshi, you must go there. And why I met Shlokna Rinpoche was because I'm an old Indian traveler. In the old hippie days, we went to India. And why I went to India is because Dalai Lama caught me with the dream lasso. One night I had a dream. that I should bring suitcase to Dalai Lama. Next morning at the breakfast we were all laughing about funny story, ha-ha, he-he, ho-ho. But three weeks later I'm sitting on a plane, three weeks later after that I'm standing in front of Dalai Lama. And these three were the main life-changing situations with people, with masters.

[31:40]

Do you want to translate? From the beginning? No, until the poem we had it. I had three encounters with three Masters who changed my whole life, in the sense that my life was shaped by the Dhamma. That was Rekha Roshi in the seminar, as described. I was lucky to have met Pekka Roshi, because I met him right away. He said, if you have the opportunity to meet Pekka Roshi, then you have to go there.

[32:45]

And I met him right away, because I was an Indian. He showed me around. Then we all went to India and did ashram shopping. But the decisive decision to go to India was because the Dalai Lama caught me with the dream lasso. That means I had a dream that I could bring a suitcase to Dalai Lama in the middle of the night. And at breakfast we laughed hard. Ha ha, hee hee, ho ho. Ha ha, hee hee, ho ho. It's the same in both languages. My life decided to influence me, or rather, there were three small doors that I opened, that I saw as very big and powerful.

[34:02]

And because of this experience, I can say today, I was happy as a man could be. I would like to speak about an experience I had on the way here. I spoke with a woman who was in the same department of the train. Compact. Compact. Compact. And I told her about my work. And I told her that I worked with a little girl and that I had tremendous difficulties in finding a relationship with her so that I could do with her what I was supposed to do, which is physiotherapy.

[35:36]

So I told her that I also have colleagues and these colleagues have kids and they probably are much more able to deal with this because they have kids themselves and I don't. And then I also heard that children need structure. Probably I have to give the child structure now. So start, middle, end. At the beginning you can play or at the end you can play. At the beginning we do therapy. And then I also heard that kids need structure, so I figured I probably have to provide some kind of structure for this kid, something like beginning, middle and end, and in the end maybe you can play or something, but not in the middle. How old is this kid? Seven. So then the woman in the compartment said... She said, the woman in the compartment said... I told her before that this little girl had Arabic cultural background.

[36:53]

And that maybe in this Arabic culture there might be different structures. And maybe also in storytelling, like we have beginning, middle and end. Maybe they also have different structures in storytelling. And that was an enlightenment experience. In a train compartment. Right there. Yes. Yes, actually I had already placed myself inside, nothing to go from me, because to give such an experience, such a special experience, does not feel good at all.

[38:17]

Now I am the trail to my ... that could have led me here, and then I came back to a painful phase of my life. I already settled into the idea of not speaking here because I don't have such a particular experience that I could mention. But now that doesn't feel so good either and so I traced back the tracks that might have led me here and I come then into a very difficult phase of my life. In this phase I did a psychotherapy and in this therapy I learned a trance exercise, which was wonderful for me, because I experienced a picture in my inner self through a large number of problems that had arisen in my life.

[39:24]

In this difficult phase I did psychotherapy and in this psychotherapy I learned a particular kind of trance technique. And that was very important because through this technique I could learn how to let difficult experiences that have accumulated within me throughout my life, how to let them flow into a pictorial representation and thus also releasing them. This has not helped me with any other problems, nor has it helped me with thinking. And several years later we had a difficult situation. And then, however, I had made contacts. I had friends in my orchestra who had been here several times and they made me curious.

[40:37]

But there were very many problems that this could not solve, and also it didn't help me to let go of thinking, for example. And a few years later I came into a rather difficult time again, but by that time I had already connected with quite a few people from my orchestra. Is that the word, orchestra? where musicians are who have been here already and they have been here already yeah and through them i had the connection to this place and they um triggered my curiosity about this place Ganz entscheidender Satz, don't invite your thoughts to tea. I had problems with my shoulder and I couldn't play my musical instrument for a while and thus I had the time to come here for a seminar.

[41:48]

I think there was a seminar that was led by you and during that seminar the decisive words fell where you said don't invite your thoughts to tea. And I'll continue to seek for that. Okay. Thanks. Listening to the stories, what pops up in my mind is a situation when a boy, I am a boy, seven, eight years old, and a memory of myself climbing out of the window and making a night walk When I think of the experience that led me here, I think of when I was 7 or 8 years old, when I was a little boy and went for a night walk. When I listen to this memory, what comes up is, hey, why am I not afraid walking outside?

[43:12]

And during the years following back memories, I know this world of not being afraid. It is often at night, or it is always alone, or it is secret somewhere. And it always takes place at night, or always alone, or it is always a secret, or something like that? But it's quite special that it is so secure. It is so solid. It is... There's no doubt. What next pops up is the sound of ropes in the wooden work. The sound of what?

[44:34]

The sound of ropes, of a rushing cloth in Rosenburg. Okay. Das, was noch auftaucht, ist das Rascheln von Roben in Rosenburg. Rosenburg, yeah. Where we used to do sashins outside of Hamburg. And listening to this memory, it is somehow, it's not the first experience, but I think it is an experience where I share feeling secure, feeling sure, feeling quiet, feeling peaceful amongst other people. Listening to these two situations I can conclude that being in the lineage helps me to share a kind of being secure, being silent with other people.

[45:56]

And when I listen to this situation, then I know that being in the learning line helps me to share with other people, to be safe and to be quiet. The mudra that represents Dipankara Buddha is the mudra of fear not, of fearlessness, and of protection and security. It's sometimes like this when you see the Theravadan Buddhas that are walking or something like this. Sometimes it's just one hand. And in Japan it's with this finger forward. Which becomes the symbol for Tantric Buddhism in Japan. That was a footnote, I mean a hand note. It was a footnote, not a handnote.

[47:16]

Yes. I told a story before that I don't want to repeat now, but that story came from my past and now I would like to speak about something that's a motor for me in the present. What Advaitha said is right. With the help of the practice, situations that used to scare me, now scare me less. And what I would like to say that relates to what Advaita said is that I notice that through practice sometimes situations that caused fear for me in the past don't cause fear for me now, and that through practice sometimes experiences shift, change.

[48:25]

that I notice that through practice very many things can be quite different. This happens more here than at home, but it can also happen at a different place. Yes. I haven't said anything for a long time, and while I was listening to you... Quite a few stories from my biography popped up that I relate to why I am here now.

[49:39]

But then always this one story that I experienced the day before my departure kept pushing itself into the foreground. Like Friday my travels here. Friday I visited a friend and a colleague who will die very soon. This all developed very quickly and when I visited him four or five weeks ago it wasn't so clear that this would now come so soon. And the reason why I'm telling this story now is because I'm aware that this story could not have happened in the way it did if I hadn't practiced with the phrase already connected for such a long time.

[51:02]

So four or five weeks before Friday, I sat with this friend on his terrace. Four or five weeks before Friday, I sat with this friend on his terrace. He lives in Essen, pretty central, in the vicinity of Ruhr and Baldeneysee, on a beautiful place. He inherited a house from his parents, who died there. He lives in Essen, very central and very quiet, close to a lake, in a house that he inherited from his parents. And there are old trees and very big trees. and we sat next to each other both facing the trees and did not look at each other at that moment.

[52:19]

And before that we had talked for a long time. He receives a lot of visitors and there is not very much of an opportunity to speak with him face to face. But at that moment this was the case and after our long conversation we both stared into the garden. And I had the feeling that he would die soon even though it wasn't clear at that moment. And I think that he had the same feeling. And after a few minutes of silence, it seemed to me to be a very long time. He seemed to comment exactly on what I was just looking at, which was that in the trees, it was quite still in the trees, but maybe on one seventh part of the tree, there was a little vibration in the leaves.

[53:55]

And he said, you know, one could ask oneself, why do these leaves move? And then we didn't talk again. And in this time, maybe a few minutes where we did not speak, I had a lot of images and thoughts of what he might have wanted to express by that. I don't want to name all these images now, but something like one could ask, why am I going to die and not you? And a lot more of these kind of questions. And then after a while of silence he said again, they just move.

[55:02]

And now on Friday I again had the opportunity to be alone with him for maybe 20 minutes. And at the end of this conversation it was clear that I might not see him again, because if I had come out of Johanneshof, he might have already died. At the end of that conversation it was clear that I might not see him again, because when I come back from Johanneshof, he might be dead already. In any case, I had the strong feeling that I wanted to tell him about these thoughts that I had in the meantime, while we were silent at that time. But in any case, I had the strong feeling that I wanted to tell him about these thoughts that I had back then when we did not speak with each other.

[56:07]

And I told him several of these thoughts. And I also told him that I had already used them very often in the meantime, And I told him about quite a few of these thoughts and images that I had and I also told him that in the meantime I had used them quite often in psychotherapy with my patients. And the way he reacted showed me that maybe he did not have the same images and thoughts, but very similar ones, and that he could understand that very well. I told him that it seems to me that this was very healing for my patients, some of these thoughts. And I told him that I think for some of my patients it was healing for them to hear about some of these thoughts.

[57:26]

And he said that they were healing for him and that that was the reason that he said them. This friend of mine has no spiritual practice. I think he is a spiritual person, but he has no practice. This friend of mine, as far as I know, doesn't have any spiritual practice. I find him to be a very spiritual person, but he doesn't have a practice. A little story that I don't think would have happened Just a short story that I think would not have happened in this way if I hadn't practiced this phrase. We're supposed to stop about now, but is there someone else who wants to say something?

[58:48]

Have you said something? Yes. Yes? I also came to you through Zen Mind Beginners World. At the time when I lived and was working in Berlin. I participated in some kind of alternative seminar that I really disliked. But there were, throughout the day, here and there, 20-minute periods of meditation. At that time I meditated for the first time and immediately knew

[60:00]

And that's where I meditated for the first time and immediately felt that this was something true and something right. Even though the surroundings of the seminar and also the person who led the seminar didn't feel right for me. And after that I started to sit on my own every morning. And I think that within myself I somehow was looking for something, had a search, but not done anything in particular for that. And then I was on vacation in New York City and in some bookstore this book, Zen Night, Beginner's Night, fell into my hands.

[61:24]

And I bought it immediately. Both the picture on the back, the photo of Suzuki Roshi, and the book itself, the combination, really appealed to me. And I immediately bought it. And the book, but also the picture of Suzuki Roshi on the back cover, the combination of that really talked to me, really touched me. And I was very sad that I came too late and could not meet Suzuki Roshi anymore. And I thought, okay, if I can't meet him myself, then I want to And I thought that if I can meet him personally, then at least I want to meet with Dharmair who at least wrote the foreword. So I had a name and knew a person I was looking for.

[62:27]

And then half a year later you gave a seminar in the Zeitlose Center in Berlin. I'm sorry. All right. Well, I didn't have any idea what I was doing, of course, when his friend of mine, David McCain, said, knew what we were doing, we'd just do this. But it let me live in this Dharma stream with all of you.

[63:27]

Each of you.

[63:28]

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