um [...] Before I come to that, I would like to distribute these notes here. You can hand them over and take one each, whoever doesn't have one yet. And I would like to say something about this work or this pile of leaves. I told you last time that there are six sets of five positions, six different ones.

[01:07]

And this set that you have in your hands now is the set of Tosan Ryokai. The first five positions, that is, what he wrote, with the exception of a very small tail at the end, which he did not suggest, because he is so cryptic and wants to explain things along the lines, these are the five positions to which Susan Honjaku, his student, wrote a comment. And from this commentary came the set that we have been studying all this time, beforehand. That means, this set by Susan Honjaku, that we read this morning, or partly read, is a condensation and at the same time a further development of the commentary on this set by Tosan Joke and at the same time it represents a strong change because it is aimed at a further school circle.

[02:34]

The set of Tosan Yokai was probably intended for Sosan directly. That means, according to the history of Chan, this set of Tosan Yokai was passed on to Sosan Honjaku when the two parted ways. And Tosan knew that Sosan would go to a mountain, would look for his own place and would teach students. And he gave him this with him on the way. So this is a text, one could say, determined by masters for masters. And there it is condensed in a high degree. And what Sosan Honjaku later says, is to expand this set a little further. His student has written explanations for this set again.

[03:40]

And I have included the explanation of the student by Susan Honjaku so far. than that you explain or execute dialogues that are only cut out here. That means, Susan's commentary on these five positions also consists of a substantial part in the fact that he seeks out dialogues, as in the Book of Serenity or in the Blue Grave Record, which he takes as an exemplification for these five positions.

[04:41]

But when Susan does this, he only briefly mentions the title of the dialogue. He says, for example, Yes, speaking out of united wearing is like the dialogue of drinking tea with Manjushri. And he assumes that his students knew that. And what Cointreau does, that he is the student of Susanne Honjako, he gives us this dialogue. And wherever dialogues are cut, I have in this copy, directly at the back of the page, the dialogues introduced, this explanation. That means you find pages 1, 2, 3, 4, and then you also find pages 4a, 4b. And that means that there are a few dialogues on page 4 that are directly after that. Is that understandable? Good. So 4a and 4b are now connected to page 4.

[05:44]

What does that mean for page 4? These are the dialogues that are attached to page 4. And that's how it goes on. I don't think there are any dialogues attached to page 5 that you have to find on pages 6a and 6b. That is, if you just want to read the commentary from Sosan, then skip these pages A and B. And if you want to know what kind of dialogue it is, then go to the pages A and B and see that it takes time. And these A and B pages, where did you get them from? That is the student, a grandchild of Sosan Honjaku, who wrote that this day. That means that this is the third generation. And from Tosan it's only the first page? From Tosan it's only the first page.

[06:45]

I still don't understand what these two things are that we read the other day. This is a set by Sosan Honjaku. These two? Yes, these two. This is the same one who wrote the commentary and is a student of Tosan Yokai. And you will see when you read it, if you read it, that... Yes, it's really... I just want to... I want to offer it more or less, I'll come back to that in a moment, that things are very similar and that you can see very well how this set develops from this commentary. From the commentary? Yes. Susan wrote the commentary and then he wrote his own set. What I would like to point out about the copies I have made in general is that you will always find passages scattered in brackets or words in brackets.

[07:47]

These are my additions. These are additions that I have ingrained because of the understanding. But they are also my interpretations. This is not written in the text and you have to take this very seriously. That means... Yes, there is... There is often... There is only one word. He says, the Sosan is simply comprehensive. Or he says, forgotten. And you have this one word, and I could have left it like that, but I was forced by my Dr. Papi, against my will, to write what I think will come next. Because it is often through this interpretation that you say who forgot what. takes something from the vastness of space, which can let such a sign appear when it stands alone.

[08:56]

Does that mean that the sign is really only forgotten? Or is it not so that there is a whole bandwidth in the sign, that there are possible translation possibilities? That is also sometimes the case. Then it gets even more difficult. But then I can ... I have never done that, that I have written down the whole bandwidth. For example, the sign for comprehensive is the same sign as for, for example, round. For round? Round. Round. Round. And it also means something like circling around or encircling. And so. But if I had to write down the whole range of lines, then we would have a pile of sheets here. So a multi-multi-translation. So, um, you see interpretation and when you... If you let it go, and you have a different feeling about it, then it's completely okay.

[10:07]

Such texts are open, and they live from it, that they are open. And unfortunately, that can only be translated. I don't know, can I say something now? I've only read the first three so far, and this morning I was already like that. Isn't it amazing to step on the face of old times in brackets? And then I was busy with the face of old times all the time, and at some point I realized, no, it's not just the face. And then I left it alone, and it happened a little bit, you know, that it became more open or different. The grammar tells you that it is a grammar and you have to take it out. I think it happened automatically to read like that. Did you keep it open to the public?

[11:08]

Do you think that the readers of the writing will be affected by your own performance in any way? Or is it a translation problem? A nice text or a nice comment, at least from this time, is often very dialogical. I mean that even when the masters wrote, they wrote in Hungarian and they tried to maintain the directness of the speech and not to evoke the impression of a skill through this depressed, which literary forms often have.

[12:14]

One way is to choose words openly. Another way is to ask questions openly. These questions are not rhetorical. but the step, the text, with you in another form of dialogue. There are also recordings where someone writes without having said anything, probably without it ever happening. Say it quickly. Go with it. This is a kind of speaking and that the reader participates physically with his whole being and does not take himself out as a reader

[13:21]

in the position of an observer, who reads a text that was written 500 years ago and is now dead. It is not a continuation of information, but a... to build a bridge or to give help to the transformation that... Yes, that leads to a greater being. A more comprehensive being. I have chosen this first set by Tosan because it is very much about speaking and the way of speaking and implicitly also about the way of hearing.

[14:48]

That is, if you learn or get an idea of where these people are speaking from and where they are speaking from, then it also changes your own hearing and reading. And that's why I think it's a very big help. On the other hand, I don't want you to feel beaten with material in these three weeks of practice and these four seminars. And that we now speak through all of this. What I thought is that now, for the next five days, if you want, you can look into these five positions of Tosan. and just pick out what appeals to you and that we may come back in the next seminar hour or in one of the following, depending on how the hour is now, and then come back again and maybe talk about it together and lighten these places a bit together.

[16:03]

But I want this to come out of your questions. I don't want to have a frontal lecture. You can't do that either. So, let's get to the frontal lecture now. The historical introduction, or... I'll tell you a little bit about the story. The two texts were written in the 9th century. The first one is Tosin's Five Positions in the first half, and Tosin's in the second half of the 9th century. You could say that, like many other texts, a reaction, but not only.

[17:07]

And they react, on the one hand, to the conflict between the so-called northern and southern schools. There was a conflict within the Zen school, whereby a representative of the southern school, of the northern school, chose to use too many expedient means means that are adapted to the situation but that are not real, but only preemptively real that means you tell people a lot of provisories so that they can go a step further but what actually happens is that people cling to these provisories and you only seduce them even more In Chan it is called the golden chain. Nirvana is a golden chain, the idea of it, liberation, Buddha-nature, all this.

[18:13]

The only thing you can do, and what this representative also did, when he preached, he put himself on an ordination platform. And to signalize, when I speak, then it is equivalent to an ordination. And an ordination is equivalent to awakening. He said, you are already awakened. That is your natural state of mind. And I do not pour in any more words and concepts. And that is of course not natural, but it is for most people a dead end. Because this position actually only lives from her criticizing another position. If she has nothing to criticize, then her consistent expression is total silence. Or to say, you are awake, period. Is anyone awake?

[19:16]

It's not enough, it's not enough. And again and again the representatives of this school had to say, okay, we need more means. We have to give people something more through this sentence, you already are. And... And the second thing that arises from this position is a bit of a duality. Namely, there is awakening and there is not awakening. There is speaking, these provisional means, and there is the true. The gap is an illusion. But the representatives of the southern school can partly rely on

[20:26]

an older Indian point of view, namely the so-called Mathyamika Prasangika school. And the main representative of this school was Nagarjuna. We quote him every morning, Nagihara Juna Daesha. Nagarjuna has this division and the commentator cemented this section by saying that all Buddhas have two truths when conveying the Dharma. One is the truth from the highest understanding, the other is the conventional truth. With the truth from the point of view of highest attainment, said Nagarjuna's teacher,

[21:36]

Emptiness means that no thing has a nature of its own, a lasting nature of its own, that exists from itself as it usually appears to us, but that it is a temporary appearance that is put together and its existence is due to the interaction of conditions and causes that are empty again. That is, you move in a network of teachings, and what you call things is actually simply connected with the fact that the perception and the intention of perception is selected and actually found knots from a river or from a network of conditions and says, I now call this things. That crystallizes in me as a deacon. From this standpoint, you can't say anything. It's impossible to speak.

[22:39]

Everything you can say is reprehensible. Nagarjuna did it in his main work. He said, there is no one, not the four noble truths, There is no difference between Yabana and Samsara because both are empty. There is no movement. The categories of being and not being do not touch. And at the same time, he said, everything that we see and what we do only works because all things are empty. If things had an independent self, how could they then form relationships with each other? How could someone change who has an unchangeable self? How could it be liberated? So, the commentator said, by Nagarjuna, in reference to this highest attainment of truth and conventional truth, everything that can be spoken belongs to the area of conventional truth.

[23:43]

If you don't understand it correctly, and Nagarjuna was waiting for you to understand it correctly, he said, if you understand it wrong, then it's like when you try to grab a snake and you grab its tail. If you don't understand this correctly, you can understand it in such a way that on one side there is emptiness, on the other side there is appearance, on one side there is speaking, on the other side there is silence. And the five positions are written against this division. and they take a step back to a very old sutra, the Avatamsaka Sutra, clearly translated as the Blue Ornament Scription, in which there is talk of the mutual penetration of truthfulness and appearance, of absolute and relative, of part and whole.

[24:50]

Sekito Kisen, who is seen as the ancestor of the Soto school, is in his sandokai, very beautifully lined up. This mutual penetration. And this is what the five positions show. Mutual penetration of emptiness and appearance, on the one hand, of emptiness and verbal expression, or saying and not saying, as Tosan calls it, on the other hand, and as Tosan later performs in his set, of practice and achievement. This means that these two, the expression of emptiness and the expression of emptiness in language, and the practice and the achievement, are relative to each other. And that one owes its existence to the other.

[25:58]

That each contains the other and that they are inseparable. that they are still not identical. You can't just hold them together and say they are identical. And as the last step, one finds in these two sets that they are both concepts. Emptiness is a concept. Appearance is a concept. So, worauf es ankommt, nachdem man erst beigebracht bekommen gehabt, erst das Eil, erst das Eintrubbeln, das Trübeln, das Gegenseitig, der bekommt dann... The fifth step is to say, forget it all. You have to be spontaneous, direct. If you stick to concepts, you are 10,000 miles away from it. Forget it all. But it is only possible if one understands the previous stages, the previous position through and through That means, as it is often said in Chinese texts, understanding it through and through, or embodying it

[27:35]

Maybe it's like Dobbin says. To study yourself means to forget yourself. You can forget this position if you have understood it. If you have studied it. And... The five positions can continue to be seen as a reaction to questions or difficulties of students on the way to practice. There is a tendency that one finds again and again in all steps of this time, or that one often finds.

[28:54]

And it says, do not rely on the experience of emptiness. If you look closely or look at these sets, then there is actually a lot of one-sided talk. Not only because the law cannot be expressed in words, which is certainly one reason, but also because The goal of rehabilitation is one-sided. The one-sided is the phenomenal, the conventional. And the right in this set stands for teaching. Teaching of one's own. genauso wie das Dunkle für das Leere steht und das Ungreifbare, das Unsichtbare und das Helle, Unterscheidbare für das Phänomenale, für das Formal, für das Konventionelle.

[30:09]

So. So the goal is not the realization of emptiness, but that it is only a step, that it is only an intermediate stage, that one is prepared to understand the form or the phenomenal, to enlighten from another word, namely from the word that one while one is in the middle of the phenomenal, while one is not trapped by it. And it comes again and again to... implicit or explicit warning not to cling to this experience of purity or to take this next step to enter the realm of the phenomenal again to go back into the world And the highest goal is then to forget this separation

[31:33]

that goes completely beyond these concepts of emptiness and appearance, of worldly and non-worldly. When you look at Buddha's teachings, as they are taught in Hinayana, you often find that they are based on the end goal of nirvana. And in contrast, Or, as we say, as a long sling on the way to Nirvana is the Nirvana for everyone. And that nirvana for all means a return to the worldly. It means to take the bodhisattva ideal. Not to enter nirvana before not all beings are freed. And that means nirvana too empty before one has reached it.

[32:42]

and means the art, the very, very, very, very high art, to be in the middle of the phenomenal, without stepping out of the void. And, finally, to make no difference. So... I would now like us to look at the first two positions, not those of Tosan Jokaj, but those of Tosan Kontotok, which we have read in the last few days. And maybe I don't know how big you want the groups to be.

[33:52]

Maybe we should split up into two small groups. And that we talk about it first. So, as a question, I would first like to ask you in general what you have come up with or what you have come up with, and that is, where to the first two positions, like the comments that have been added. And... Insofar as what came to you from this text or touched you with this text or called out question marks, insofar as it has to do with your practice.

[34:55]

So it influences. The big question under which I would actually ask this whole discussion is, what can we do about it? This is a text that first of all seems quite concealed. but also have a very great openness. I want to use this openness so that everyone finds a kind of access and speaks about it, what his access is and what this causes in him for his own practice. When the group is small enough, then we just do it like this. I would say that we do this for half an hour, between half an hour and 35 minutes, and then we pile it up.

[35:57]

And 20 after each other, then the first cut and the first summary Okay You said... That's what you're distributing today No, I mean Susan Honchakou I mean the other one Let's see how it's distributed The other one is called position 2 Yes, with commentaries With commentaries Susan? It's cute. It's cute. Tosan and Sosan are the mountain names. They are the mountains we lived on. Briokai and Honjaku are the names of the monks. Briokai means good servant and Honjaku means originally silent. The first one has to be back.

[37:33]

Sun has to be back. Susan. uh... In my answer to one of the questions, I think I touched on the third part of the first position, that is, the attack from all sides, that it was still tangible, it was still hidden, because then I come to the point where capacity is established.

[38:33]

I think how the old face or the entrance to old times always circles me again and again, or always brings me back, always brings me back in, if I don't know how to integrate it. And that's what I thought was very nice here, that what concerns me is more important. If it's that kind of thing, then you can't do it yourself. It's important for me to see it in the game, to perceive it and to accept it. That's it. But I think that the line should cut here. I was reading for the first time in the morning.

[40:06]

And then I asked myself, will more happen in the future or not? images that I can't bring into connection with my life at all. Gerhard once said, I don't know if that's true, but I remember it, that everything that appears in pictures that we put aside at some point in our lives, that it came to us at some point Yes, that's what I always have in mind. And sometimes I have the feeling that there is no attack. That I'm looking in somewhere, or that it's shining through, that I'm flickering. These are often actually faces, so attacks, and sometimes very different things, eyes, but everything is possible. And then I ask myself, where does it come from?

[41:07]

Where does it come from? And sometimes it's a feeling of old, very, very old. And yes, if I ask myself this question now, if I ask it in the meantime, this sentence doesn't reach me anymore. So then I have the feeling that I am doing something with it. And if I don't do it, but maybe in the aftermath, from the memory now, then it is somehow such an achievement. So I could have happened there in three, condition one in three, this inviolable and then Bye-bye. I notice that I can't really start with this picture or this term of remembering.

[42:35]

What happens to me now, when I sit down, is not that some pictures appear, maybe this past, present thing that plays with me. As if something appears that has been once and then was forgotten and can be remembered by me, can be remembered again. I perceive it more as physical conditions, not only physical, but also as experience conditions, which communicate with me. When I sit down, I experience such experiences, which I have never experienced before, or which are not so easily accessible to me. I imagine myself on a threshold between light and dark, between sleeping and waking, between different states.

[43:41]

Sitting and perceiving are also learned. That's why I have this... Maybe I can do something with the hidden, with these images of the comprehensive and through pressure influence each other. So rather something that is felt at the same time, that suddenly appears, as something that really is not the past, but is now present again, not in this historical moment or so, but rather enters a dialogue that suddenly becomes possible, because I get eyes and ears for it, or I get a sense for it. I would like to make a short remark, so to speak.

[44:43]

All other versions, except the one about Wildstar, have recognized instead of remembering. It gives me a slightly different feeling. I can recognize it again. For me, that's what it's all about. That's all I can do. I can just write it down and see what it does when I change it. Sorry, I forgot to write it down. I thought my first position... I heard the word badminton and thought it was something to do with cuckoo. Cuckoo. But otherwise I see ESF as a very concrete experience, an experience of emptiness. For me, this is a second position for Dachshunds, which is very special.

[45:48]

Where maybe our practice can be done in the middle of the one-sided left-right. The one-sided left-right or the seal was a bit of a mess. And that's to say, I don't know, even if I don't believe it, it strikes me. I would say we can go and count on it. I came up with the idea that the way we experience it, it automatically becomes parallel again. It doesn't become new. It doesn't become new in the future, but it is discovered that it already existed.

[46:54]

If I look at these five positions, the first position is a concrete experience of how it was described. And I asked him, tell him that I won't, that I won't have this, [...] What is the difference between one and two?

[47:59]

It sounds quite logical, yes, that's one thing, that's another, that's another, that's another, but if I want to bring that together with my experience, first of all there is a certain confusion, because What is the difference? Between 1.1 and 1.2? In the middle of the right, the one-sided, in the middle of the one-sided, the right. I'm not even in the position 2 yet. I mean, there are other positions. At first, it was such a strange feeling for me, when I had these positions for the first time, and much more has not happened since then. It creates a spontaneous feeling of a certain logic or structure, first of all with a certain lightness and clarity in the structure and makes me more interested in that position, then I go to another one, so there is not really such a field,

[49:23]

If I now, and this is resolved by your comment, you say, well, with one, I don't know, but with two, that's somehow clearer, then I had the feeling, why, what is really the difference between these two positions alone? That's where I see myself right now. I'm in the middle of the one-sided form of the main world. And then I try to look into the right. Yes, but if you take the right with clarity, if both are there, what makes the difference to see it this way or that way?

[50:31]

Or can you do it? Isn't it not just a concept to think, now I'm going from this side? Is there any orientation at all? How can you put this into a concept and take different positions from it? That's another question. No. I don't know. One hand for the fingers. When I sit here, I can feel my body on the floor or the floor under my body. It's something like that, I think. Or at the same time. If it's at the same time, that's fine. The floor is something different than your body. No, if it's at the same time, it's not anymore.

[51:34]

If I find both directions at the same time, then it is no longer separated. If I only have the body on the ground or only the ground under the body, then yes, but if it meets, it is no longer separated. In four weeks. Yes, it's okay. Let me try to put it simply. If you take the two concepts apart, then we have already decided that there can be two aspects under which one can experience or experience. The whole heart needs to be built in the form of a teacher, first to be put side by side or to be pushed apart as two aspects, and then to look at how the sixth game is. And if I take a glass, I can try to look at the glass from the formal aspect and then bring the emptiness into it, or to realize the emptiness.

[53:01]

And I can also try, if I can, to go from the empty aspect of the glass and take in the formal aspect, i.e. the appearance. That's how I want to understand it now. But what is the spiritual aspect of a church? I can only remember an eternally long discussion with Roshi when he gave a lecture. I can only remember those two hours. But if you say teacher and if you say form, I think, then at least that implies that we can think in a way that is different from the teacher or from the form itself. Or it is this whole distinction. That is of course problematic. But there is the concept of glass, the glass is there, there is glass, and I think there is a possibility to perceive the glass in a way that looks through this concept, or that dissolves the concept and realizes that it is just a concept glass, and that it enters this conceptless moment of perception,

[54:21]

and then perhaps feel something empty in this immersion, and then from there can come back to the glass. At least I feel the movement here, I mean, I think I understand it, I understand it, that these different directions are going in my mind, that once out of the darkness, out of the darkest hour, the first night before the motel, I come to the conclusion that something is happening. And in the second position it goes rather the other way around. Mich hat dieses Wort Antlitz auch am meisten berührt.

[56:08]

There was a lot to it. In the 1970s there were many diplomas in pedagogy, psychology and sociology, where it was always about the reconstruction, the reconstruction of communicative abilities, the reconstruction and so on. And I always ask myself the question, when it says here, remember, recognize again, do we reconstruct something that was already there before? My experience is that sometimes I have experiences that I can classify as already experienced. It is a recognition in the sense that it is a deep experience that I am experiencing. Yes, it is very difficult for me to talk about this text

[57:27]

to break, and I just sat down and wrote something down, and I'll just read it to you. Antlitz. Who meets whom? Who meets who? I see myself, I see I. Nothing sees nothing. Dark sees dark, pain sees pain, sees sees sees, just look, just. That would be my definition of Antle. At the moment. And the same with these five positions. I just wrote down how I understand them at the moment. And I'll just read them to you. I can't say much more about it at the moment. One, new moon, still before birth. treffe ich das Antlitz aus alter Zeit dem Vergessen entreißend.

[58:36]

2. Verschlafene Alltag, ich treffe mich, erkenne mich nicht. 3. Der Weg, das Antlitz, sprachlos, ein Tun. 4. Alltagshandlungen, ohne zu verbrennen, gelöst und frei. Wer handelt? Five. Heaven and earth were never separated. Now I'm going shopping. I'm still busy with the face.

[59:48]

I don't know how to translate it. The face is not the same. It's something finer. This morning it became more and more that it's not just something that you can understand by looking at the face, but everything that is shown. I understood that. And from an old age, so old that it has nothing to do with my emotions and evaluations. So that it can appear and just be there and disappear again. The lecture is a text

[61:01]

brought the experience closer to standing like a fox. For me it was the first time that I had even found the person. But I notice that I have simply tried him on a deep level of understanding. And so I just went on with the best of my ability, which was woodwork. and all I can say is that, well, I simply find it very deep from the poetic rhythm, without being able to say what is actually happening there, but I do notice that And I don't know if this path of the mirror is actually the strongest, but that's something that I've been thinking about for a few years now, the mirror and Eshu.

[62:08]

I think this is perhaps a model, or rather a concept, I would have said a theory of reflection, so to speak. This is a model of how we experience appearance, something in the reflection of something. It is the same and it is not the same. This idea fascinates me, but I know that there is a lot to be done with it. And the last thing I would like to say from my practical point of view, and I also do not have the right access to it, on the one hand, or at least I do have access to it, first of all, because I am in the, what is it, the 1D, where there is neither the sun nor the moon, and then there is no connection between the moon and the moon, and this experience is simply, well, yes,

[63:38]

and that Mr. Shungoro Suzuki has said so beautifully, to experience oneself as a revolving door, breathe in, breathe out and nothing else, yes, that is how it is in both major moments, but then for me there is really nothing and then no beat appears, then I would find the appearance of a picture as a churro, yes. Yes, that's what I'm hanging on to now. I would like to add that the eclipse is for me somehow equivalent to Buddha nature or emptiness.

[64:48]

It is something that we are hiding, but we cannot see anything. It's a joke that you can't see the singer, just as you can't really see his face. You can see it in the mirror, but what you see in the mirror, what we perceive and think, that's us, we are not, we can never see our own face in the singer. And I think it is very beautiful to call it Anglitz, because it actually even fits in German. You said that earlier with Anglitz's face. It's always beautiful. There is no ugly Anglitz. It has something of... I wouldn't call it beauty, that's such an appalling term. I would rather call it something harmonious. because if you see your angelic being and therefore do not count the prayers, but rather remember and it is a feeling, this feeling that is connected to it is actually a feeling of remembering or recognizing, it has always been there, and there is actually really no place for beauty or harmony, and that is why I find angels to be very suitable somewhere.

[66:13]

and this memory is something that goes back because it has a temporary consequence, but it is a memory in the present and not in something that is actually not old, so I find that a bit difficult, there is almost no word for that, Yes, with the old, I almost have the feeling that it is far from my time, from my time assessment. So I mean with old, so old that I can't say it's neither my life nor the life before it or another one. It is independent of my ability to measure time. And that's what I mean with old. And that can also... Some say they are time-stripes, others say this and that. There is research going on. It is far from this time-measurability for me.

[67:23]

But I can somehow describe it as old. It is a feeling. Well, for me, age could only refer to the experience that has always been there, that is, the experience that has always been made by people. No, no, because otherwise age makes no sense to me, In the experience of the old, there is no feeling of old.

[68:23]

In the past, the word was often used in fairy tales, and in fairy tales the wise old women, but also not all in the sense of one's values, but as you said, always present, wise, experienced a lot and transformed, knew a lot. The original text, the vocabulary, there is no proper German word for it I prefer the English translation, it's more ancient. It's very strong in that sense, as you say. It's a word that's not old in the sense of highly aged, but in the sense in which you enter a Japanese stone garden and just see that it's old and timeless at the same time.

[69:33]

It's this... rather that it is an age that goes beyond such a linear term. From then and then started or something like that, but that you can perhaps also use the vocabulary without a beginning. And without a beginning also has something of this temporary, that you get out of from the observable, the beginning and the end. Olga? As I said, don't hang too much on the word remember. Most versions can recognize that, and then it goes very much in the direction of what Gerald says.

[70:34]

And then don't forget that in the text it says not to remember it. It is a negation. It is not recognition because of recognition again. You feel, you feel something. That is what the text says. And the first attempt is, I want to know what it is, and I try to recognize it again, at some first time. And what this text says is simply, it's about... As soon as this moment of return or retreat comes to something known, it's gone.

[71:40]

And yet what you see there is very... ...unintentional. And... And that creates an incredible distance. Hello. Yes. In order to try to make it visible to me, or to give it a form, I need the image of a... ...a wonderfully pure... ...a pure glass pane... ...that you see... ...that you don't see... ...but you see through... ...or because of which you see... ...and... ...the glass pane itself... ...I can't grasp... ...I only notice in the clarity...

[73:07]

of what appears, that it is wonderfully clear and that there is perhaps a feeling of clarity and lightness or openness. As soon as I try to characterize this, then I come to the picture somehow, then I only have to do it with depictions, namely depictions of what is appearing. To come back to the example with the glass, then the glass is what my perception, what I perceive as light reflection, something I call conventional glass, but what allows this glass to appear, this form of being, or of attention, or the intention to look there,

[74:22]

and that which gives the inner space, that this glass, in which this glass appears, which also reflects the outer space, otherwise I couldn't see it, if the glass would stick directly to my eye, no chance, if the glass didn't have a free space around it, but if there were lots of things, that are not connected or separated by space, no chance. And that's what I think, or that's how I often feel it, an inner space that I feel bigger or smaller, narrower or wider, pulled together by things that I never get a glimpse of as such. because it is also the space from which I look.

[75:34]

To look back on it, I can't do that, I can just leave it. That's the only thing I can think of so far. And that what appears in it, the width of this inner space, oder dass sie daran klar wird. So, irgendwo fühlt sich das sehr alt und vertraut an, aber trotzdem ist es auf eine Art auch, again and again, as soon as I try to repeat a state or a feeling that I had about this one room, and now I would like to have this room again, or what I now call a room, then it does not work. And so we are again, recognition is not possible.

[76:38]

Yes, I think it is exactly affected. What I think is exactly affected is that it is absolutely new, it has never been there before, it has never been experienced before, and at the same time it is very familiar and ancient and already very obvious. almost as if it could never have been anything. At the same time, she had this, and I think almost that this is an aspect of how children experience the world. So at the same time, she has this trust and this perception for the very first time, and the great astonishment about the above. And it is I think that these two aspects are inextricably linked to each other.

[77:48]

Nevertheless, I think that it is still describable. I think that This is not the answer, but it is what can be easily described, what comes with such an experience and feelings. These are two different levels, but in this way On this level, too, remembering is very well possible, and this feeling that comes with it, but not in the sense of being reconstructive, I'm losing myself right now, It must have happened once.

[79:45]

And what actually touched me, because I was two years old, because then I found myself again spontaneously. Why can't I explain now? I don't want to explain either. I've always had a bit of a hard time getting into such texts at all, because they are so far away from me. It's a bit difficult for me at the moment. I don't really want to be like that. The poetry speaks for itself. I didn't want to lose it. But I didn't have the feeling that I understood it. And then I found the contours I read the video call, the dialogue and so on, and I thought, is that really too much?

[81:19]

But in the first position, I had the feeling that it was just a feeling that I knew, that there was something. there is something there, and in the end I think that this is one of the things that always attracts me, this feeling and this awareness, there is something there, even if I may never really be able to see it, or, yes, I can see it, there is also such a trust in it, If I show it again, I think it's closer to me, but it's there, somewhere, somehow something is there. That's where it is, yes. As I said, actually.

[82:22]

And I found that again in the first production. Hmm. As soon as I started reading it, I had a very deep impression that I had to find it again. this deep longing. And there is another, I think, a poetically more beautiful part in another set, also by Susan Honjako. I have to laugh, because Akos said earlier what he actually meant by the cuckoo. And Susan Honjako writes In this set, it's about a stage of practice.

[83:30]

Even in the middle of the mountains, when a hundred grasses and flowers have fallen, the call of the cuckoo does not go silent. I find it very nice to read and to see that this call somehow over 1,200 years and some borders and so many things that I also felt that way. And that means that we carry this experience within us.

[84:53]

So, before you said that, I also said that for me it is also a way of seeking meaning, that is, I consider the search for meaning as an expression of an experience, not my own, but an experience that has been transmitted to me over a very, very long time. I have to say that, as you said, to learn about the children, that is to say, the other thing is also a picture in the history of women's women's clothing. There has always been something hidden. But under this veil there is always something that is hidden from me, something that is within me. And that is my picture of a woman. We are... Should I say nice bankroll?

[86:17]

No, we are close to the time without a second thought. And... Do you want to say anything else? Interesting. I have one more thing to say. I think it's very interesting to see the commentary from the first sentence, from the first position. It's very interesting to see the time difference between the first two sentences. and then in the third one, right now, what is it, what is that, and so on, and always, yes, you see separation, or something is happening, and suddenly you have no patience, right now, what is going on now? Yes, that all helps. Yes. There are different possibilities that we can continue.

[87:28]

The first possibility, we have now talked a lot about the first position and tested ourselves in the dark. words or expressions were found or also kept silent. There will be the possibility to talk about the second position next time, where perhaps many will find themselves more directly. because here the starting point is the one-sided, the phenomenal, and from there you lean to emptiness, to the right, and not the other way around.

[88:34]

The second possibility would be to take the next two positions for the next time, And the third possibility, well, you can't really decide about it yet, would be to talk about the five positions of Tosan Yo-kai. So I would like to postpone that until you have looked into it until the next time. And if that really appeals to you, then I would say you can always look into it. but that we now, maybe provisorily, between these two possibilities decide, or rather, what other suggestions do you have, how we should proceed? In which direction would you like to proceed? Yes, I think it's good to simply follow the path and then see what comes next.

[89:38]

Follow the path? Yes, so that we are in position two and maybe talk about it or concentrate on it. If there are no other presentations, then we'll do it. Yes, and I would like to say again that these texts are just suggestions. If you are somewhere else than these texts, then just continue your own processes.

[90:45]

You don't have to force yourself into the text. We would rather stay with our own things than work off a text that doesn't say much to us.

[91:01]

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