Bhikkhu Rishi was asking me whether I would begin by saying something. And that since it was mentioned yesterday evening that I would say something, so I think what I want to do is to essentialize. When you break them down, in fact, actually I asked Tom and some of my students here to see what they thought were the three most important points. From what I've said. And is that what they wrote? Is that in the West, this seems to be the key point, really.

[01:02]

Since we lack a really proper spiritual environment, Therefore, there is little or no support for spiritual practitioners. This means the Sangha or the community practitioners would be even more important here than it was perhaps in the East. That's point one. Point two is by working genuinely with the teachings, each member of the Sangha will not only be a true friend to themselves, but to everyone in the Sangha, and hopefully to all sentient beings.

[02:19]

And thirdly, the Sangha is not an institution. It is a group of loving and appreciative friends who truly support each other on the path to enlightenment. And the third point is that Sangha cannot be an institution, but rather a group of really loving people, of friends who support each other and help each other on the path to enlightenment. is the balance between being there for each other as well as skilfully giving people the space they need. So these are just three main points.

[03:49]

Maybe you would like to say something about from his view or from his understanding of what that is. You know, Japan, there's a tradition of natural wisdom. Which is really fairly independent of Buddhism. And it was partly developed out of... developed through people who didn't know the Chinese language required in Japan to study Buddhism in the early days. And that tradition of natural wisdom was absorbed into Zen Buddhism.

[04:50]

But I think we in the West have a feeling that somehow Buddhist practice is entirely natural wisdom. At least some of us think we can do it pretty much by ourselves. But I would maintain that these practitioners of so-called natural wisdom still got the basic sense of meditation practice from Buddhism itself. Just ideas about how to keep your practice open, free yourself from thinking. People don't just happen on to by themselves usually. So I think a better image of Buddhism for us in the West is that it's similar to a language and

[06:18]

A language is not something we create and you could create out of your own natural wisdom. Not only is it something that's been created by many generations, It's also generated by the numbers of people speaking it contemporary with you. In other words, if you're from a country which has a small population and a small language, a small number of people speaking the language, The literature, the philosophy, everything is less developed overall than in a language spoken by many people. No, I agree with Rinpoche that Buddhism's coming into the West, which is a culture which repeatedly draws us out of Buddhism.

[07:53]

But there are some advantages to this. Because you see the contrast with Buddhism more easily. A friend of mine says, in Japan it's good to be a Christian, in America it's good to be a Buddhist. But also I think that the West, somehow two things have happened. One is the sense that religion, our spiritual life is imminent within us. That religion is somatic, it's in everything. Which I think was true in the West some centuries ago. Somehow we've gone from theism to deism. Just say it that way. Somehow religion has been pushed out of us to outside our daily life.

[09:37]

But I do think there are many lineages in the West trying to correct that. And I think all of us who practice Buddhism or even interested in Buddhism, come to it from lineages in the West as well as lineages from Asia. If you check in yourself, what made you open to hearing Buddhism? I bet it's often some philosopher or poet, Rilke perhaps. Or maybe even popular songs. So we're bringing together in this new Buddhist language in the West, Western lineages which have been broken because no one knew yogic practice, which is how to continue.

[11:04]

And we're bringing together Asian lineages and beginning to speak them with our mind and body in the West. And the more of us who speak it in this deep sense, the more strength all of us will have in practice. I think that's enough as a little introduction. I could add that I would define Buddhism, particularly lineage Buddhism,

[12:14]

as a multi-generational mutually realized teaching and practice. In other words, it's carried through the generations and developed. And Sangha carries it through the generations. But this lineage is also horizontal. And in each generation it's then mutually realized. And the more deeply it's mutually realized among us, not only does the bioentrainment, the proximity of other practitioners of the Sangha members, Sangha people who are the Sangha,

[13:33]

it develops the teaching the possibility of the teaching for all of us and the stronger the horizontal lineage the more it pushes the teaching into the next generation You had some questions. Since there was a little break, we have prepared a few questions for the two gentlemen. The first question is, in the West, even in the West, when we become Buddhists, we take refuge in Buddha, Dharma and Sangha.

[14:42]

But it seems to me, and it is the case for many of us, that obviously in the West the quality of the third jewel, the Sangha, has not yet been really captured by us. So I asked the first question. In the West, the first two of the three jewels, Buddha and Dharma, are valued far more highly than the third jewel, the Sangha. Do you have any advice for Western practitioners about how we can develop a purer perception of our Sangha brothers and sisters? I think what Bhikkhu Roshi said about the natural wisdom, I found it very interesting.

[15:51]

I think there's a lot to hear in that. And also about the language. I think it's very, I think it's, I think it's something I'm not going to say too much, just something for us to think on. There's a lot to understand there. I found that very helpful. I think in many respects, we're all here to learn. And whenever I am able to share with my brother like Rebecca Roshi, just to also learn from each other, and also very much from each other. And I'm still absorbing last night's three hours. It's kind of really to always to learn.

[16:58]

What I really appreciate is very much he, when there is like, you see, for example, he has very much been brought up by Suzuki Roshi, who I have tremendous respect. And he came from a really a lot of experience. And I think particularly also difficulties, which are sometimes the greatest teachers. And that really something that the experience that has come from there, and having lived and taught in the West, or in America and Europe, and I think it is very brilliant. And very able. And I think it's all this, you know, make it that, you know, his experience, what he's said, are very, very much valued. Very much in that respect. What I'm trying to say is that I always, myself, when I have occasion with my different brothers, you know, speak from the Zen, from Theravada,

[18:06]

Or is trying to see what we can do. Because it's all the situation is just ongoing. It's very new. We're still in the formation. We're trying to really see what is going to be the future of the Dharma, future of the Sangha. It's really a very important period, I feel, in the Buddha Dharma, in the history of Buddhism here in the West, I feel, this chapter. Like for example in my own community among my own students or for sometimes where I work for example. is I get all kinds of inputs from both my senior most masters, the great traditional masters, as well as the younger generation of teachers, who have been trained up very thoroughly in the tradition, but also been exposed.

[19:13]

Have I, for the need of the modern world today, and then further also very much from my students and then from out of all that you bring all this together and then there come a time when things fall into place naturally and then says ah This is good. I think that becomes much more organic. That's very good. Because I think there was a time, maybe a little bit now slowed down, But maybe in the 90s or the 80s, there was a bit of a rush to make it into Western Buddhism. And there is a little bit of danger when you rush. That's why it's very important that we take time and gradually to naturally arrive.

[20:31]

But also in this, we should not just lay back and say, well, naturally it's going to something of benefit. We all need to work. each in our own way in our own way to working with their community are unique lineages but at the same time really sharing learning from each other common good of the Buddha Dharma, as well as for the benefit of beings, as is very much the case. And then in this, the first point that was brought up, it says here in the West, the first two, the Buddha Dharma, are valued far more highly than the the third jewel, the Sangha. I don't know.

[21:32]

I don't completely agree with that. There might be some section of community who might respect Buddha Dharma more, but there are a lot more who actually very much more appreciate the Sangha. But the main question being is, do you have any advice for Western practitioners about how we can develop a pure perception of a Sangha, brothers and sisters? I think that's the main point, I think, yeah. I hear at the really the main question comes of in fact defining Sangha. I don't mean by defining Sangha saying what the Sangha is in terms of definition, in terms of words.

[22:35]

What Sangha is in terms of actual definition. And how we also recognize within each community And how Sangha is recognized. And in this what's very important is training. And the recognition of really good practitioners. Like for example among my students. There are different approaches. There are many lineages. Teachers. Who empower students. authorize them recognize them become teachers in the future but where there's others like myself a little bit slow in doing that it's not that I don't want to authorize I just want to wait and watch and how they become sometimes when you give them a name

[23:41]

On one hand it empowers, on the other hand it also empowers the ego. but to give a balance where you authorize them on the basis of that credit card. It has to be renewable. Or in a sense, specific authorizations that they can teach you on this particular point, this particular aspect of the Dharma. And not get coming debts. But I think you see, as Bhikharoji was talking about natural wisdom, there comes also natural respect. of some individuals practitioners in the Sangha who are naturally recognized because of their integrity the goodness of their character and of their knowledge and ability and so when something manifests that this way then through the training

[24:56]

and then gradually they can be recognized. I think it's very important slowly that the community should also recognize and respect the Sangha. I think whether they are ordained or not. But also, there are different approaches. I think in this way, if there are If respect is, for example, within that community, then that respect is also carried through in other communities. It's very important that we respect our Sangha within our own communities. I think that is really one thing. But in that also it's important is that the training.

[26:14]

Training, as I mentioned yesterday, very much. I think this is a more fundamental issue about the training path. Because there is a danger in the West. Many teachers actually show concern about this. that people follow the Dharma, sometimes because of their connection with the teacher, even though there's nothing wrong with that. But sometimes they follow just out of emotion. And emotions go up and down. When your connection is good, when you feel good, And then it's good. When you don't feel so good, and particularly if you do not have the teachings in you, the dhamma is not in you, then the whole spiritual path becomes very shaky. Because if you really look into the Dharma, in respect of the actually of the

[27:20]

Dharma really stands on its own. Dharma is a complete path. And that when we really come to study the Dharma, if really the Dharma as a path has been developed here fully, in fact, that is the larger issue. All communities are struggling. How do we develop this? Because also, for example, like in Tibet, There's so much study, so much study. Just to become a scholar, just to become like a Geshe, you need to study 21 years. That on the Sutrayana level, that alone of the Tantra teaching. So that kind of study, time, We cannot put here the words. So the greater question is what kind of study program can we make? That is based on the authentic teachings. Based on scriptures.

[28:38]

But yet at the same time, you know, more essential. Like for example, in our schools, like for example, like study of the Abhidharma, of Madhyamaka, all these things, because they're very vast. How can you make something essential that is again not becoming too simplistic, yet it contains everything, but not because it's too large. So that study, really, because in future the teachers are, or the Sangha for that matter, because actually the Sangha is the teacher material. For the moment it's really, sometimes I feel it's because on the need to, you know, for example, you have to do what you have. Like in a community, even though you may not have students who have completely accomplished the path, but yet you don't have anybody.

[29:42]

better, so you just have to make do with what you have, so it becomes that. Like today, when my first book came out, there was so much interest for the various courses, We did not have anybody qualified enough to do the courses, so we had to make some crash courses for those people. So that really the question comes is that in the long term, It's very important to have a thorough study. Thorough study and then on the basis of their knowledge, their wisdom and also compassion and their which means also the goodness of them as human beings.

[30:44]

On that basis, you respect and honor. So, it's a two-way thing. Respecting from the communities, for example, Sangha themselves also, respecting themselves, that is to say, living up to it. Sometimes the respect is very much if you are, you know, if you are a good person, and if you manifest as a good person, naturally also you kind of come out and respect. Those are just, you know... Not only have I learned a great deal directly from Sogyal Rinpoche, I also know a teacher through the people who practiced with him, started practicing with him, who now practice with me.

[31:52]

Because they have to live near our center in the Schwarzwald or something like that. And those people who practice, you know, everyone's practiced with so many people. Many people have practiced with so many people. The ones who practice with Sogyal Rinpoche always stand out in our Sangha. And I agree with Sogyal Rinpoche that the Sangha is in some way the most valued of the three jewels. I think I would define Buddhism one simple definition is it's a search or longing for ultimate friendship. And many of us come are moved to start to practice through wanting some kind of deep friendship.

[33:28]

And our society, in a kind of collusion between commerce, government and the media, is that it's so externalized, our sense of self-worth, that we have difficulty actually turning inward. Yeah, so many people I find who are coming into practice are actually in a tension between their profession or their work and a calling that they're ignoring. They have some inner request which they don't know quite what they want but it isn't being satisfied in their work and society.

[34:50]

Even the radio so filled with love songs I often hear as really, I mean, we all know love is difficult. And so all of this singing about it, I think really people are longing for sangha. Yeah, so when you start, when you begin to feel this longing, Wanting to change your life. Of course Buddha is the most obvious of the three jewels. Look at this wonderful Buddha sitting there. Or this wonderful Buddha. So anyway, we have an image of the Buddha.

[35:58]

Dharma is a little more difficult. Because how do you have an image of emptiness? And the Sangha, we've had a problem because we've identified it with community. And I've decided actually not to use the word community just to say the Sangha. Because community is not Sangha. They look the same often but it's not the same. Sangha is really just us who support each other in practice. We may temporarily form a community But we have to be careful we don't think it's a commune. Yeah, that's enough.

[37:24]

So we have another question from you. Doris has another question. The second question is that in the past, masters often had one monastery in their country, sometimes only one single student in a single village. Maybe there were some famous masters who also had different monasteries, but nowadays something special is happening, with these two teachers here, that they have a Sangha that is spread all over the world. And I would like to ask the two of them how they make it possible that they can really care for this Sangha in a good way. So masters in the past tended to be responsible for relatively few monasteries and students, whereas both of you have many thousands of students all over the world.

[38:28]

Why do you think it is possible for masters to have so many students these days, and how do you manage, practically speaking, to care for them all? Your turn. It's a difficult question. Or rather, it's difficult to answer. For many reasons. In one way I can answer, but in another way it's difficult because in the West everything is so changing. In one way, I have thousands of students.

[39:30]

In another way, very few. Really, it's very difficult to say. And the only thing... I think it's not so much actually caring for... You see, the thing, the bigger point that I'm actually working with is that of really this support for the students. This is something I've been developing over the years. The study, the practice, the translation of that from the original scriptures, but into a way that is both authentic but also sensual. I think really the larger point is to, how do you say,

[40:32]

to create a path. Even though it may seem that we are taking care of students like individuals, like if you have Few, then it's easier. If you have more, it's more difficult. I think that's not really the issue. Even though when you have many, there are more needs, but basically it's a whole question of translating the path. And that takes time. So in so doing, that it's very much actually in the formation at the moment in my work. And once this path is more clearly established, then I think, you know, you can take care of few and many, you know.

[42:00]

It is, in fact, not so much problem. And the only thing is very much each teacher has its own ways of, particularly when you have many students, is how to keep the close connection. That's like each teacher has its own way. Sometimes, even though you have many students, there is a way of teaching that is intimate, that can be the same as having a personal interview. I'd like Bekhoroshi to say on that, and then maybe I might add something a little later. Yeah, these questions are, I think, useful because they allow us to sort things out together.

[43:05]

And I agree with Sogyal Rinpoche again that we need to find some way to develop both realization and continuity in the teachings. That's the main task, how to create the conditions for realization and continuation. And especially now that Buddhism has become such a fashion. You know, it seems like they advertise a large number of things these days with Buddha's I think the Buddha is quite happy to do it but but the way I look at this what this question raises is I would distinguish between seed teachings or seed practice where since I've been doing this a pretty long time, all my adult life.

[44:31]

There's a, you know, you come in contact with a lot of people, so there's a lot of seeds of practice that are, that happen. And then, and of course the reason, it says, what's the reason? Well, it's the airplane, audio tapes, things like that, which make it possible. Yeah, this kind of automobile, this was never possible in the past. So it does raise problems that no one knows quite how to solve. And the second I would say is maybe ground practice. Creating a ground for practice. A way to cultivate the seeds. And in that, I think I agree with Sogyal, we need to have some place where people can have a deep taste of monastic type practice.

[45:52]

So my main job in that is to really have a known address. and in fact I have two known addresses and it's good that I'm six months in Germany and German speaking countries and six months in the United States because it lets both places survive without me They can't survive without me. They're not healthy. I'm not doing my job. And it's good practice for when I perish. And the third, I would say, is what I'd maybe call fruit practice. It's really together sharing and developing this and passing on this fruit.

[47:12]

And in that sense, the teacher is not me, it's the relationship, having a feel for grounding yourself in the Dharma. And the fruit practice is more a lineage or transmission teaching. And at my advanced age, only the latter two, especially the most, are the ones that I should emphasize, I think. I just realized something is that I'm not very good at explaining what I do. I just do it. And it's very difficult to actually speak.

[48:32]

And also, when you start talking about what you do, how you do it, it seems like a little bit like advertising. And I kind of don't like that. But yet, since this point does raise, and I have not spoken on this, How do you take care of students? I think first of all, you need to care. Really, that really to care. That's why I think it's often, I think this is one of the most important qualities in the teacher, is that always caring, always thinking. I think it's very much, you see, I notice that all my quite a bit of my wake, or even maybe a little bit of small part of sleep, because I've not reached to a level. My practice is not so good.

[49:33]

My sleep is really just delusion. But at least during my wake, that mostly, always I was thinking of the Dharma. I always see everything in terms of Dharma. That doesn't mean I see all that just Buddhas, incense everywhere. I don't mean that. But really, everything in terms of how to communicate, how to teach. Like when I meet friends, just ordinary people from the street, when they speak, I always see this as really a learning situation. of how to communicate, how to. So always there is in the depth of my heart how we communicate, how we care, how to make. Like, for example, when someone raises one question, raise or rather brings up a particular way that he or she has solved a particular problem. And immediately, if I think of a student of mine who's going through the confusion, oh, I think this knowledge is extremely useful for this one.

[50:34]

And I always try to connect the two together to see that this person can benefit from this wisdom. So in that way, there's very much a sense of always kind of caring So I think in a teacher the most important thing is this care. And when I talk about myself, how I feel, it is already the case that all the time when I am awake and maybe even a little bit in my sleep, I don't want to say that I am highly realized, my practice is not so highly realized, most of my sleep is blurred, but maybe sometimes it also falls into my sleep, but whenever I am awake, I try to see everything that happens to me as dharma. That does not mean that I walk around and see Buddhas everywhere and incense smoke and some strange conditions. No, it means that I see everything that happens to me as a learning situation. For example, when I am on the road and meet someone who has a certain problem, has a solution for this problem, and I know in the back of my mind that a student of mine has the same problem, For that matter, I invite many different teachers, like for example this summer, which some of the very great masters came.

[51:38]

And then when they would teach, I would listen to their teaching and really to see ways to help people. In different ways, because sometimes students are used to hearing a particular way of presentation, when you have a different perspective shown, but of the same truth, then it is very complimentary, sometimes extremely helpful. So that's also another way. But most importantly in the retreats, like as Vicaros was mentioning about really having a definite address or place, like in Lerabling, for example, or sometimes in German in the Kirchheim, for example, is that I try to go particularly in Lerabling over the period of time to teach very deeply and intimately.

[53:10]

Aber vielleicht der wichtigste Aspekt ist die Situation eines Retreats, wie auch Birgit Roschi gesagt hat, diese feste Adresse zu haben, einen verlässlichen Platz, so ist es zum Beispiel in unserem Retreat-Center Millerabling so, oder auch im jährlichen Kirchheim-Retreat, so einen Platz zu haben, wo man die Praxis vertiefen kann, wo man verlässlich zusammenkommt, diese Ebene von Retreat-Situationen zu haben, das ist vielleicht der wichtigste Punkt. Whereas, you see, in all our kind of centers and groups and courses, that all the teaching that's been given previously by myself and other teachers is being studied and made into different levels, or we call them streams, different levels. And to present it so that the students are really studying these teachings. And on top of that, as I keep teaching each summer, each retreat, the deeper and further developing. That way, taking care of. And then the next step that I take care of is that all the teachings that I have given, that these other teachers that we invite have given, they are preserved.

[54:16]

Die werden veröffentlicht und die werden in den verschiedenen Zentren, an den verschiedenen Orten von den Schülerinnen und Schülern studiert. Wir haben richtige Kurse, wir nennen sie Ströme oder Streams. And then also we developed among the groups, even if you have a very large group, you make them into smaller groups. So all the questions and issues that they bring up comes together. So that I respond to it directly myself. And whether it's also by the senior students. But there are all these different ways in which we are working. But I think the biggest challenge, as I was saying earlier, is about the transmission of Dharma.

[55:22]

Because it's easy to just satisfy, you know, like, for example, people who don't know Dharma, you can just do a weekend, say anything you want, they think it's complete Dharma. But if the Dalai Lama comes and listens to you, what you're saying, I remember once, very interesting, at the meeting of western Buddhist teachers in Dharamsala, they will explain how they teach. And Dalai Lama said, very good, very good. But not Buddhism. He said, very good, very good, excellent. But not Buddhism. So I think the question is also, what is Buddhism?

[56:23]

What you're teaching is very authentic Dharma. So that's where the challenge is, really to bring the teaching. Like, for example, among my students, I mean, they're just beginning, And also not only the study, but the practices also. You cannot just give the teachings they have to actually progress with the practice. And in this, I must say, Tibetan Buddhism is rather more complex. Zen seemingly is most simple. It's just seeming. Seeming. But that actually catches later there and then also. And so that really, for example, even on the teaching of Dzogchen, this is from that tradition, but real transmission of Dzogchen, many of the teachings, I've not even begun to do.

[57:24]

Because it takes time. It really needs time. I think it's so, in that respect, not so much how a teacher cares for students, how the students are willing to follow. If they are willing to follow this, it created all kinds of ways. That's the wonderful thing about tapes and videos, that it does work. In fact, interestingly, I watched a number of teachings on tapes and tapes. extraordinary upon the presence that is communicated through that. Particularly if you've made a personal connection already with that master and you receive teaching from him or her.

[58:39]

Maybe when you listen to tape. I think transmission is possible, even though true transmission, like the empowerment and things like that, in our tradition, must be received direct. And you cannot introduce nature mind through the video. It may be possible. It is said the Buddha sometimes even teach, you know, That means, the Buddhas are clever. They teach even the movement of leaves. Because it was the mind-inspired teaching. Many of the sutras among the Buddha are not directly spoken. They're inspired. But actually, I think the transmission is possible. That's why we've developed a very kind of, how do you say, This is developing very much a teaching communication.

[59:50]

We call it teaching communication. Really, videos, tapes, well edited. Only the best. so that we don't waste your time. I'm very kind of particular about, because some students, because they love the teacher, anything the teacher says, they think it's wisdom. Sometimes, you know, so I'm very critical about that they should be very critical of what I teach. And when I speak rubbish, they should recognize that I'm rubbish. And let it right out. So in that way, you see, is a way of taking care. And I think I'm happy to say, it works. But the thing is, Because there's not a real support, dharma has not really developed into a kind of hadjusin environment.

[61:00]

And because we have all kinds of influences, one called samsara, We have so many influences, so many obstacles. So I think there, I think sometimes what happens is this, whether a student follows through the teachings or not. There can be sometimes sidetracked, distracted, but we'll catch it. That's really a danger. And so that's also a challenge, how to actually care for people who goes a little bit away from the people. How to still keep them within the kind of, how do you say, within the, how do you say, Like students who might maybe don't practice for a while.

[62:03]

That's really extremely spacious. And really state that love... I think it's very important. It's not only... There was one case, one very famous story. Excuse me. I want to hear. Once there was a, you know... case of one in Tibet. It was happened in Tibet. There was one great Dzogchen master. And there was this student. It was one of his favorite students. But this student did not have problems with the teacher, but problems with some other student. There was some kind of problem going on. And he was quite a difficult character. He really threatened to leave the community. Break the connection. And in fact he did.

[63:03]

Because they were out of anger. Aus seinem Zorn heraus ist er abgehauen. Und als er gerade im Abreisen begriffen war, kam der Lehrer raus und der Lehrer humpelte, hatte mit seinem Krückstock, das ist wirklich ein berühmter Fall geworden, er hat seine Krücke genommen und hat gesagt, selbst wenn du deine Verbindung zu mir abbrichst, meine Verbindung zu dir wird niemals, jemals gebrochen sein. That's very important. Even though a student leaves the teacher, the teacher never leaves the student. And that spaciousness, that kind of thing, must be communicated. Because sometimes in the West, there's a question of guilt. Of course. It's very important in this that when you do something wrong, you must have regret.

[64:10]

You must have something to love. But then, sometimes people mistake that with being guilty. Guilty is sometimes not regret. Guilty is just guilty. And guilt is sometimes not very productive. Sometimes it is guilty that makes you leave. You do the very thing that guilt makes you do and you go in the direction. So it's very important to you not to make people guilty. But also show them that if they make a mistake, that they make a mistake. So I think there are so many of these complex here. It's very difficult to actually explain. What I do or what a teacher does can sometimes be very spontaneous.

[65:13]

Each in its own way. So there is very much, as you said, what I'm trying to say in my case, even though I have few students, I think in my care, And it's not lacking. But the only thing is, it takes time. So the students must be patient. Because it's time to, like Rome was not built in a day. It takes time. Buddha Dharma takes time. It takes time. Sukhriyashi used to say the same thing about his relationship to his students. Maybe we only have 15 minutes. Maybe we could have one or two questions or a few questions from... Do you think that's a good idea?

[66:14]

Yeah. There are questions from the audience. We have two microphones there and you can stand there and ask the questions. It has been said many times that that here in the West everything is constantly changing and changing too much in relation to the demands that the anchorage of Buddhism in the West poses. But I would also be very interested in what it looks like in the East.

[67:19]

I mean in Asia. Well, it was mentioned several times that we deal with impermanence in the West even more rapidly than in the East and how to anchor Buddhism in our Western culture. But my question is really how are things or how are affairs in Asia about Buddhism and the development of Buddhism? Oh, yes. Well, you know more about that than I do. Yes. Well, that's not also easy. Not only economical problems, but a lot of spiritual problems. I mean, you know Tibet, what's happened. That's one thing. But the thing is interesting is that more the authorities are against the teachings, it seemed to add spirit to people.

[68:24]

However, the problem is many, many of the, for example, the The education, you know, really the education, continued the study of the practice, those have been very much, as you say, impaired. Then, for example, like in India, among the... I know... particularly of the Tibetan communities, for example. There is really also very much, a lot of questions about, on one hand, on one hand, continuing the, you see, because, for example, like, Tibetan Buddhism for example it's so rich and to really preserve not just to preserve but keep alive all these lineages which that in fact the holder

[69:41]

really those who really have the complete realization and complete knowledge are just a few, all the masters. The whole continuity that this is already is. Then just as like in the West also now, before you see in the East like the very much that the teachings, like the Dharma is very much The sangha, the ordained sangha, the monasteries were where dharma is practiced. But now, the new reality is that the lay people are more and more interested, they're taking more active part. So there's a whole new issue about making Dharma more accessible, more simply to the ordinary community who are taking more an active part in a sense. Then it's a bit like in the West. Historically, the monasteries were the places where the continuity was maintained, where the Dharma was preserved.

[70:49]

A friend of mine, Italian friend of mine, has just written a book on pasta. Now, I don't know if he's right about this, but he says that one third of the Italians in the world live in America. And the image those Italians in America have of Italy has deeply influenced the whole concept of Italy in Italy. I was just in Assisi this last week with a friend doing my best to study Western culture. So I don't know if he's right, but there's probably some truth to that.

[71:56]

And I know Suzuki Roshi left, one of the main reasons he left Japan, because Buddhism had been too absorbed into the culture. And it was hard for people to see it. And I know once when I was in Japan with him, he gave a talk in Japanese one day. And people said, oh God, it's the same old boring Japanese Buddhism. And that evening, to many of the same people, he gave pretty much the same talk in English.

[72:59]

And many of the same people were there, Japanese people, and they said, oh, this is fresh and new. It's really great. So at the present time I think we're in it together, the whole world Buddhism. And if enough of us are seriously practicing it influences the whole of Buddhism in the world. And some of you have been practicing longer and more thoroughly than the majority of priests in Japan. It doesn't mean that quintessential teachings aren't still more deeply preserved in Asia. But let's recognize that we're practicing in a world Sangha in a new way. And a large part of practice is its historical application and its creativity through meeting circumstances.

[74:34]

And that historical application and creativity is probably mostly happening in the West. Still, we have very small experience, but we should have confidence in our practice. And if we do, I think we help practice in Asia too. I know they're encouraged by the fact that Buddhism looks like It has some real aspects in the West. I think they're discouraged sometimes by how we use psychology and science as Trojan horses to bring Buddhism into the West. That we're adapting Buddhism too fast.

[75:35]

And not really respecting its integrity. But, you know, these are growing pains. I think in this, I remember Thich Nhat Hanh once said to me, Rinpoche, by teaching and working, teaching Dharma here in the West, it will help the East. Rinpoche, indem wir den Dharma hier im Westen lehren, werden wir dem Osten helfen. And that's why very much each time I really very much agree with Bekir Roshi that each time, for example, when I go to East, that's why I go there very often.

[76:46]

Every year about twice. It inspires me to work here. Really bring the teaching here. I think it's what sometimes in the East is because of the language and because of many facilities they have, they have more availability in some ways. That's why I keep saying again and again, that the really important thing is to bring the complete Dharma to the West. As really practitioners, I think the Western people can be very good practitioners. If only you had the same kind of information and the complete kind of the, how do you say, dharmic knowledge, As in the East.

[77:55]

Some of the Eastern people. They're not in a wonderful distance. And there's another thing that I've been doing is also. Is that I've been very much going. I'm teaching in India. Particularly among the young people. In Dharamsala. In Delhi, Nepal, Bhutan, many sick areas. And then also older folks in the old Tibetan communities. The interesting thing is that, just as you were saying about Suzuki Roshi, Younger people, if you teach them in English, they'll like it. And then you teach them in English, but then I translate the same thing. First I teach in English, then I say that in Tibetan, then they say, ah, that's what is man. Yes. Also so zu lehren, scheint mehr noch wieder zu regenerieren.

[79:07]

Darum habe ich für Voice of America einige Sachen auf Tibetisch gemacht, das sie dann ausstrahlen. Das wird dann nach Tibet ausgestrahlt. Und da spreche ich diese Punkte an. Because there's really need now in the East. That's why I went to Taiwan two years ago. There's tremendous interest. So I'm going to also I think just as Bekaroshi was saying, I'm slowly preparing. I worked in Europe for a while now. And I've got to lead the students to work with themselves. And I might focus a little bit in America. And then in maybe Asia.

[80:09]

Because particularly in the East, there's really need for it. But in this also, what I've been trying to do, which I hope I'll be able to create, is a dialogue between both the Asian teachers Nämlich ein Dialog zwischen den asiatischen Lehrern und den authentischen westlichen Lehrern. Thich Nhat Hanh unterstützt mich da sehr. Er fordert mich auf das Thema. Auch seine Heiligkeit Dalai Lama ist daran sehr interessiert. Ich hoffe, dass wir uns mal gemeinsam treffen können und dieses Thema diskutieren. Wirklich die wichtigen Themen. Ich denke, das ist eine ganz wichtige Sache. And sometimes I may read We've spoken quite a bit today, but also a lot of things that need to be said are actually unsaid. So I hope that you will hear all the unsaid things. That's what we both hope. You know, Doris' third question here

[81:09]

Let's do the two of us consider ourselves to be part of a sangha. And I think since it's two minutes after one it's safe to say simply that I'm sure Sogyal Rinpoche and I feel part of the same Sangha and especially part of the Sangha with you. So we're very grateful to be here with you. Thanks our translators. Yes, I would also like to thank the two of them and point out again that Belkaroshi has a center here in Schwarzwald, very close here.

[82:44]

And you can practice with him more in the workshop style, maybe study, very close here. And the address is certainly at the DBU stand. Maybe this evening, when he holds a lecture, he will also give a little more information about it. As far as Sogyal Rinpoche is concerned, if you want to study and practice more with him, there will be the opportunity for his winter retreat here in Kirchheim. And there the topic is to soothe the mind or to work with the emotions. And there will be the opportunity for 10 days to spend intensively with him a time of teaching, studying and practicing. And then I have three more very banal announcements. All those who are interested in the event with His Holiness the Dalai Lama, please meet here at the front. So now, right after the event, if you still have a chance to join, look for or offer, or if you still have cards to offer or look for cards.

[83:47]

It's an advertisement just went by.

[83:54]

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