Does anyone have anything from last evening that you'd like to bring up? Yes. They said, there is nothing outside of the system. And we learn that there is no such thing as a system in my religious community. You see, in the spirit of the spirit, there is no such thing. Well, I don't have any particularly good way to express it, so that's the phrase I use. And it's an idea, a view, essential to Buddhist practice, especially. So we could say the whole seminar is about answering this question.

[01:19]

But to put it simply, the teaching of interdependence means there's nothing that's not part of that interdependence. There's two basic ideas, interdependence and interpenetration. And everything we can know or imagine is interdependent and interpenetrating. And makes a kind of system. It's an interesting correlation.

[02:23]

correlation to it though which is that in Buddhist philosophy a kind of philosophy the world is made up of paramanus which are small combinatorial units This is just the idea. And those units are so small they can only be known in combination. Sounds like physics. And it's quite similar. So we are part of one combination.

[03:32]

But there could be other combinations. At another time or simultaneously interpenetrating this one. But we only have the key to the combination that we're in. Yes. So Buddhism assumes that we're in one system but there could be others. And that's no harder to imagine than what's at the edge of the universe. In other words, when you get right down to it much of the world we live in is unthinkable. Denn wenn man wirklich einmal genau hinsieht, dann ist vieles von der Welt, in der wir leben, einfach undenkbar. Und so ist wiederum eine Bedeutung von Dharma das, was erscheint. Wir wissen nicht alles, aber dies ist das, was auftaucht, was erscheint.

[04:37]

Das ist jetzt erstmal mehr als genug darüber. These things sound maybe too much like philosophy or science, but in fact they are at the basis of how we look at things. Do you have any chairs for people who'd like to have chairs? Do you have any chairs?

[05:40]

It's nice to have a few chairs. I see there's some out there. Later at the break we can... If anybody would like to get a chair, you're welcome to. If you really want to take a chair, you're really welcome to. Anything else you'd like to ask? It's like baseball. Liquid baseball. Okay, nothing else? Yes. When I look, I don't trust. There's always... I'm afraid, I don't know what.

[06:45]

And then I think, I don't know, I'm afraid I shouldn't be, I should cast. So, how to... Should I trust? How to feel it? Okay, Deutsch? As if... Well that's the basic question. If I were to explicate what you said, I would say that, first of all, the world can't really be trusted. governments, people, you know, your job.

[07:54]

You can't sort of simply trust. Yet in some way we have to find still a way. How can we yet trust? And then we also come to psychological habits of not trusting even when we can trust. And then you have the kind of dialectical problem of how do you trust distrust. Yeah, you have to trust distrust. Just in the same way as you have to accept when your meditation is not very good, you still accept it as your meditation.

[09:07]

We can go back and forth about all those things. But this bell is still here. Beyond trusting or not trusting. So how can we get to a mind which is beyond trusting or mistrusting in this kind of That's the question of taking refuge in the Buddha. Refuge is a funny word. It means to run away. Eigentlich heißt es weglaufen. To flee. Wirklich zu fliehen. In German, Zuflucht is to flight. Refuge means backwards.

[10:09]

Zuflucht, the official translation is to run towards something. It's the same idea. Where do you run to when it's in the rain? It's the same. You can notice... Where do you run to? In the rain you run for the edge of a building or an umbrella or something. But study in yourself, where do you run to? Most basically, of course, we run to our thinking. I mean, otherwise it would be very easy to meditate. You'd have no trouble staying But you keep thinking because you run to your thinking means you're taking refuge in your thinking.

[11:23]

Okay, so let me... I'm happy to be interrupted. And also... We don't have to stick to this topic. Because I'm here just to practice with you. You can talk about anything you want to in relationship to your practice or our practice. But we have been given this topic for this weekend. So I'd like to see what we can do with it. I mean, it's central to all of Buddhism.

[12:32]

Yet it's in fact extremely elusive. I mean, the problem is simple. The solution is not so easy. But the problem is simple. If you can't take refuge in yourself, because there's no permanent self, when you can't take refuge in... The physical world. Because it's always being torn down and replaced with shopping centers. At least in America. You go back home and it's all different. Where am I? This is where I played as a child and it's now a Walmart.

[13:56]

And you can't take refuge in your body because it may have cancer or it may, it certainly will die. So the Buddhists come along and say, oh yeah, we know all that. So take refuge in Buddha, Dharma and Sangha. Thanks a lot. Yeah, vielen Dank. What good is that going to do me? So to speak about this, we have to refurbish how we think of existence. Do you know refurbish? I know. Refurbish means to renovate or to fix up.

[14:59]

To solve the problem, we have to renovate our thinking. It literally means to make bright again. Now, it's obvious I've been doing this a long time. And have given the three refuges to quite a number of people. So I could say something to you about the three refuges.

[16:03]

Yeah. But it doesn't really interest me to do that. Yeah. Because if we're going to practice, actually practice the three refuges, we have to find out together what it is. Because if we're going to take refuge, we have to take refuge now. So I would like to see if together we can find some way of looking at this as it's particular to us now, today. So I would like to see if being together can teach us something new, or at least teach me something new, about what it means to take refuge in Buddha, Dharma, Sangha.

[17:23]

Let me start out by this re-affirming process. to say that we are in the process of purchasing a Buddha for Johanneshof. And let me say, although I'm speaking about Johanneshof, I'm very glad to be here in Berlin and doing the seminar with you. I mean, in general, people, the Dhamma Sangha people in Europe and Germany, Austria are mostly going to Johanneshof now. But I want to still do some seminars away from Johanneshof.

[18:43]

Because some of you I would never see if I waited at Johanneshof. So in Berlin, you know, I like Berlin. It's far enough away that it makes sense to do a seminar here at least once a year. What did Kennedy say when he came to Berlin? Well, you know, I'm not Irish, but... Okay. But still, why am I getting, want to get this Buddha for Johanneshof? Now, some religious teachings, religious teachings often use visual, use, you know,

[19:46]

Vision as a way, visual materials as a way to teach. To tell the story of the religion or the teacher. Buddhism doesn't do that so much. Buddhism uses visual materials to show us what kind of space we live in. No, it's not so important to us. We don't respond to visual things in the same way as, say, medieval Europe. You know, it's still part of our Buddhist culture, at least to some extent.

[21:12]

So anyway, this Buddha, I want to tell you something about it so that... I want to tell you something. Speechless in Berlin. It's a Shakyamuni Buddha and an Amitabha or Amida Buddha. And it's the part of a... As Amitabha Buddha, it's part of the five Tathagata Buddhas or Jina, J-I-N-A Buddhas. And the sense of the five Buddhas, why five Buddhas? But the five Buddhas represent one.

[22:25]

So why do five represent one? Well, it's in the sense that there's five directions. In this room right now, there's five directions. I mean, there's a million directions, but we have to simplify it. So there's five directions in a simplified sense. One is over that direction. And one over that direction. And one is there. And one behind me. And the fifth is the center. Where's the center? That's ten. Buddhism speaks about ten directions.

[23:26]

Ten and five. Ten means the eight compass directions, including north, northwest, or northwest and southwest, as well as north and south. And the other is up and down. So that's ten. But you know too much. But we're staying at five now. So the ten is based on five. And I think that we... We'll understand it better if we stick with five. Okay. So there's four directions. And there's the center. But where's the center?

[24:27]

I mean, the center is moving around. It's wherever you place the four directions. Yeah. And these directions in Buddhism are not understood to be away from you, but toward you. So it's not that he's coming toward me, he's not over there. So the center says there's a direction toward the center. So the center is also understood as the zenith. And the zenith means the highest point in the sky. So the five directions have the sense of four coming toward the center and the center being above and including all.

[25:29]

And so these five directions have the meaning that they, so to speak, run together in the middle, then go up to the zenith, so to speak, and then cover everything again. People used to feel that way normally. Since many things in Western culture, but let's take Newton. Since Newton, it's been understood or assumed That time is absolute. And space is absolute. And space and time are absolutely separate. And Newton is one of the smartest people that's ever lived on the planet. And he was wrong. So there's hope for us. We might not be so smart, but we're right. I mean, if we're talking about interdependence and interpenetration, then time and space are not separate.

[26:46]

So, I'm sorry to be so philosophical, but it's not really about philosophy. It's about how implicit thinking we have. And then Einstein comes along And he's not a real smart fellow. And he opens us up to the relativity in a relationship to time and space. And although we may not make the effort to understand his physics, in fact, in our culture, Now we see time and space as relative because of his and other influences. So these big views influence us. But most of us still hold to the Newtonian idea of the absolute time and space.

[27:50]

You sit here and you think you are in this room. You think yourself in this room. Oh, I'm sorry. And you think this room was the same as it was before you came in. That's because we think time and space are absolute. And I'm certain that in other times and places people felt this space, as in fact you do also, as different when we're in it. So we have to really understand Buddhism. You have to understand the worldview it assumes. And Heidegger tried to get there. He tried to say that time is not absolute.

[29:29]

That the present is presence. Yeah, it's about the same word we use in German for presence. Well, what the heck did Heidegger, he wrote in German. He wrote quite a lot, yeah. Okay, so if you could just, we have to find some, we do have to find some words. Now let's maybe use English words. Sorry. Because if you relate to this present as some kind of time, That's different than relating to this as presence.

[30:43]

Okay, so I relate to Tara's presence. I don't relate to her in the present, I relate to her presence. And again, Buddhism is like falling in love, and normally we only relate to the presence of another person strongly when we're in love with them. But let's be in love all the time. Not uncontrollably with strangers, but... Uncontrollably what? With strangers. But this feeling of being within a mutual present, this is a way you can live.

[31:57]

But philosophically, there's some category in your head that puts you in the present rather than in the presence. I like the way you're translating. Don't let it go to your head. Yeah, I'm afraid I'm becoming too philosophical and I'm going to bore you and you're all going to leave Saturday afternoon.

[33:01]

But I happen to believe that it's the cultural views of the world that are the main impediment to enlightenment. It's the embedded views we have of how things exist that prevents us from seeing how they exist. So let's imagine that we should take a break from it. The sounds of autumn are in the pipes. It's like the umpan.

[34:21]

One of the instruments in a monastery you hit this metal thing. The monks in the basement are. So let's get out of the sense of a Let's see if for this weekend we can get out of a sense of absolute time and space. And this, you know, David Abram for instance thinks that many of the witches that were burned in Europe in the tens of thousands were because they had the different sense of time and space than we do. So this is a serious business if you kill people because they have a different sense of time and space.

[35:24]

Now, Newton discovered certainly that it's very useful to have an absolute sense of time and space if you want to measure the motions of the planets. Yes, but none of us have to measure the motions of the time on the planets. So let's let that be one part of the world, but not necessarily where we live. So let's this weekend see if we can live in five directions. We're in a situation where things are there and there and coming toward us. If I notice you, as soon as I notice you, you're coming toward me.

[36:43]

If I don't notice you, you're out there somewhere. But just the sense of noticing starts a movement toward. So now what I'm trying to do is refurbish the present. We imagine there's many futures. Each of you has a different future. But there are also different presents right now. But if we just say present or now, this is such a dead way of describing it because it sounds like there's only one now. So we have these expressions like the here and now. And they kill the present. They kill the present as presence. So let's see if we can discover ourselves in these five directions.

[38:06]

The presence of these five directions. In which each of you is always the center. And yes. Western understanding, I am the center. That's what I said. Yeah, that's right. It isn't a different direction that is the center, but I'm always the center. Right. I didn't understand which direction the center is in. In the western sense, it's the center, and then there's the new south-west. He said there's a fifth direction that's already from the center. It's different in the western sense, but in the free sense, it's the center. If I can reformulate, just say, why do you need a fifth direction?

[39:15]

You know, in Western thinking, we are used to, you are at the center. And this isn't considered a direction. It's just considered the center. From where, four directions. Yes. I understand. Okay. Thank you. You want to say that in German? It seems that we don't need a fifth point. If there is a north-south, we cut it in the middle of Baden-Kreuz. We don't think of the middle as a point, but as an ideal point. OK. In Buddhism there's nothing fixed, it's always movement.

[40:23]

So I'm the center because you guys make me the center. So I'm made the center by the movement toward me of... everything around me. So I'm obligated to you for making me the center. From a visual point of view, I'm looking out, yes, it's all out there and I'm the center. But from a sense of presence, the presence it's hard to say but from the sense of presence which is not visual then the center is a movement of everything toward a point. It doesn't answer the question. How would you answer it? This is one of the things I'm here to know.

[41:42]

No, we're the teachers. The fifth direction is the center. Because it's also... Well, maybe the problem is with the word direction. Maybe that the problem is the word center because for us center is always something unmoving. Yeah. Well, we could say the five movements then. Okay. So, this is the... You know, this... These are hard to talk about. I can feel them, but to talk about them is hard. Okay, so that's a center. But it moves. It's always changing. And if I move this, this changes.

[42:46]

So this moving changes this. Yes, that's right. There's no center. It's all centers. Every point is a center. And none of them are fixed. What? I know who he is, yeah. Yeah. Is that all Deutsch?

[44:00]

I wrote that email. Thank you. But then, what are the other directions? Because the other directions of Western understanding come from fixed points. And only when I say take one point as fixed, then I can say there are four directions. And when I say no point fixed, every point is the same, then where are the other four directions? Deutsch. Okay. I hope I understand it correctly. So, as I understood it, with the four directions and the fifth, the center, there is no center where I accept it. I will be the fifth, but it is in the movement.

[45:04]

There's no pressure before, and there's nothing. But in the moment when I accept it, you know, you're coming through with no resistance. And I realize it, so the fish, yeah, in shape, happens to appear. It appears. It appears, and so it disappears, makes the fish, so makes me to be here. Did you say that in joint? Did you? Yeah. Yeah, you did, okay. We are confusing you, Blue Star. Because we don't sidetrack. But the question of the four directions is not, well, the four directions we're used to in Western thinking are not necessarily dependent upon having to fix, you know, from any point, any moment in time to come up with these four directions. That's, you know, you kind of mislead us in that direction.

[46:09]

I mean, I'm saying this without judging you. I think as if this answer the problem I had raised before, which is the question of the fifth direction. Why do we still haven't got closer to the question why the center, what we think of the center, which in Western thinking is thought as moving as well as is nonsense, but Western thinking thinks the center is always fixed and stable. That's not the decisive difference. The decisive difference is, do we think the center from which the four directions go off? Or, in Buddhist thinking, that's really different. The four directions come to. Why do we define the center not as a point, literally invisible point, as in Western thinking, but as a direction. That is still the core question. Sure, I agree. Okay. Western thinking, we can point to the direction. Yeah, but the point can move at any time.

[47:10]

It can move, but we first need to point. Yes, so we must. Okay. Okay. First, but you can sit, you can find four directions. George, could I ask you? It's about two different questions and we have already answered the second question from the first The first, which I would like to return to, is the question why in Buddhist thinking that there is a fifth direction where we, in Western thinking, have an imaginary point from which the four directions are constituted. The second question, by which we have been distracted by the first, is whether one needs a fixed point to constitute the four directions. And this is an old question.

[48:15]

This is nonsense to take and the Western thinking to predict that the outcome of this point would be fixed and that it would first have to go before it could go in the right direction. So, the speed and acceleration have already been thought of by Newton. Of course, not all points are correct. The question is, the decisive question is really why the middle, not as a middle to bend, but as a further, a fifth direction. That is our decisive goal in the West, in the Buddhist world. Okay, I like this discussion. I'm not sure we can sort it out. But we have a number of levels here. One, if somebody's being fairly strict in thinking, of course, a center is always determined by...

[49:23]

You know, every point is a center in Western thinking too in that sense. But there's also the... how do we really feel in the way we think on a daily basis as our habits? Our habitual way of doing things is more real than what we would think if we were pressed to be clear about a particular point. So if it's useful, if we try to... You know, there's some kind of effort. There's an effort required to sort out our thinking in relationship to trying to be consistent or clear. So, I want to take a break in a minute, but let me end with a couple of things.

[50:34]

I think maybe we should take a break, so let's sit for a couple of minutes. Back at 12 o'clock. Shall we have lunch at 1 o'clock? Shall we meet again at 3 o'clock? Is that okay? But I think we should try. And I don't If we can just get a different feel, that will be good enough for me. But I don't want to get bogged down in some kind of philosophical study of Buddhism. But we need to go into it deeply enough to challenge our views.

[52:13]

And that's true whether we're Asians or Westerners. Although my own understanding is that Asian and Western culture are based on rather different ways of looking at things, the habits of the way we are are pretty much the same in all cultures, most cultures. Otherwise, even though Asian culture is more open to Buddhism, Still, because they've developed in relationship to each other, still, Asian people face the same problems we do in trying to make sense of this.

[53:26]

And in fact there may be some advantages that are often pointed out for us because the contrast sometimes is more clear. Because Tanahashi Sensei says in Japan it's good to be a Christian. And in Europe and America it's good to be a Buddhist. Because maybe from the contrast we see something. Okay. Now let's take a The common sense view, which I've attributed to a Newtonian way of looking at things, the common sense view, which I've attributed to a Newtonian way of looking at things, is that

[54:51]

the Big Bang, for instance, exploded into space. But scientists would say now that it actually created space in its expanding. So then, The way our minds work, we say, what did it explode into and create space? I mean, it's not exactly thinkable. Okay, so let's just take the idea that Big Bang made space, was space, as it expanded. Now, another way, sort of down-home way of looking at it. A down-home way of looking at it. Down-home means like back on the farm or an ordinary way. So imagine putting one rubber glove on two hands.

[56:21]

It's a very difficult way to wash the dishes. But if you pull your hands apart, that space... Your hands together with the glove, that's space. And we're always making space that way. It didn't just happen in the Big Bang. It's happening right now in this room. Now, it's outside of our way of perceiving and conceiving three-dimensionally. Now, to understand Buddhism deeply, you have to accept there's a mystery present here as well as what you see. And the commonplace contemporary example I use is that there's a few thousand handy phone calls in the room.

[57:47]

And a few hundred television channels. In fact, Humphrey Bogart is right there saying... So, in any case, you can accept there's a lot going on in here that's not within our perceptual range. Okay, so... Let's assume that perhaps there's other things going on that we don't know about. A hundred years ago we wouldn't have known about the possibility of the television stations.

[58:57]

Who knows what's going on? Buddhism assumes we don't fully know. But we fully are, even if we don't know. That makes sense. You are everything that is, even if you don't know how you are. And the word great function in Buddhism means to function knowing in the fullness of what is, even though you don't know everything that is. And we call that something like intuition. Now, although it's not so easy to perceive or conceive how we are creating space, the more you can enter the present as presence,

[60:24]

You will begin to. My experience is that you will begin to experience it. So let's go back to this, what we ended for the break with. It's five directions. Now maybe the problem is in the word direction. Yes. Maybe it should be five movements. But anyway, we have to find some words, perhaps that we have to make a new meaning, feel some new meaning in ourselves.

[61:36]

Okay, so this is a point. But that's a place, it's not a direction or movement. But there's no such, in Buddhist way of thinking, there's no such thing as that. Because in fact, it's always moving. Yeah. So if we want to... But in our human life and in most activity, it's not just movement, there's a direction that moves. So let's simplify that direction as four. As four directions.

[62:44]

So that can, this, which we call a point, which doesn't exist, can go that way. And it also can go that way, and of course that way, and that way. So that's movement. But it can also move... It can also move inward. It can also move inward and outward. Okay? You can translate that, see? I was just curious. So, but from the Buddhist point of view, the point doesn't exist, but this exists.

[63:49]

The point is always a movement unless you stop it and say, well this, but then it moves. The sense of the, again, with the back, the sense of the five directions is that this is a direction, because we call it a direction, because it's the result of direction. So it's another way of saying interdependence. The sense of movement which makes this place feel like a center. And each point is a center.

[64:54]

Because of everything moving toward. Now, there may be other ways to understand it. This is the Buddhist way of understanding. At this point, some comments before I go on? Yes. When we were sitting in front of the table, I saw a picture of a billiard table. You don't really have a billiard table, but you shoot the white ball and it starts to move. But at some point the middle ball starts to move, to hit another ball, which then chooses one of these four directions. When we were sitting... When we were sitting before, I had the picture of a billiard table and where you hit the one white ball and the two others and the one is the center and then the direction, they move to the edge, towards the edges.

[66:27]

But now as I'm saying it, I'm not so sure that I've understood it right. Yeah, but if that energy comes up, trust it. It's related. It's related. It's not so much a matter of understanding at this point, but just letting images come up that relate you to the topic. Now, in Japanese thinking there's what's called... Yeah, you're the main voice here, Steve. there's what's called the ma point. Again, the ma point is if you imagine there's a string connecting everything here. A string like between us. Going both directions.

[67:32]

But a string going, you actually have an infinite number of strings. So from a Buddhist point of view, that's more what's real than all the different points. Now, that pattern is not just, they're not just strings, they're kind of movements. Some are stronger, some, there's an energetic pattern. And the ma point means where you can grab that bunch of strings and affect the whole situation. Now any good actor has to know that. So if you're on stage, you have to know exactly... to move there, because then the whole audience is with you.

[68:39]

And this is a talent that Milton Erickson must have had. And it's a talent that somebody like Michael Jackson has. Some artists, this is their gift, and some like Michael Jackson grew up in a world where this was... you know, the way you had to function. So Michael Jackson can have, you know, two or three hundred thousand people and he can stand there still and he can move one finger and everybody bursts into a huge roar. Now, if I was standing up there, I wouldn't know when to move my finger. I'd move it and nothing would happen. But he knows where the ma-point is.

[69:40]

And, you know, it may destroy him. And shamanism, we could say, is something about knowing how that operates but also knowing how to survive it. Because if you have that sense and yet you're not developed In relationship to that sense, there's an awful lot of stuff, wattage, coming towards you. What did you say, wattage? Wattage, like electric wattage. Wattage, yeah. Wattage, yeah. Yeah.

[71:09]

There was a question, which is the fifth direction? The fifth direction is the center. The fifth direction is the center. I'm thinking about it in my... when I try to get a feel or a sense of this, things coming toward me, and there is also the feeling as something is appearing like something like an energetic field, for example, ascending, so to say.

[72:10]

Yeah, and it's the same thing you pointed out. Okay, so we're getting close here. This is getting better. Okay. There's a historical Buddha. And the historical Buddha is way back in the past. Yes, the physical person called Siddhartha is back in the past, long since buried. But what made him a Buddha? Couldn't that be present today? Okay, so I'm going to head over some things which are going on with some of you, but not most of you.

[73:16]

If we have to have some kind of shared vocabulary here. Okay. Let's take a statement of Dogen's again. Let me put one up here first. Dogen says the Buddha way Buddha The Buddha way is to leap beyond the one in the middle. The Buddha way is to leap and that's like a fish net. A fish leaps out of the net. Beyond the one and the many.

[74:28]

So we generally have a view of one thing and many things. I mean, I'm not saying you shouldn't think that way. As I say, if you don't think that way, you'll probably lose your job. The normal way you think about it. Now we're talking about an innermost way of thinking. But deeply satisfyingly. A non-comparatively. You're not always thinking about yourself in relationship to other people and comparing and so forth. But you actually feel you're the center. In some philosophical sense, you feel you're the center.

[75:30]

And you carry that center with you. But not in some way, I'm the center if you're not. You carry the center and each person is carrying the center. And when you do that, it does feel centered. You'll know when you really feel that because you'll feel deeply at ease and no anxiety. And Doget tries to express it by saying it's the leap out of the net of thinking in terms of one and many. Duggan said, the coming and going of birth and death is the true human body.

[77:36]

Why did Duggan say that? And does he mean something that's relevant for us? Now, practice helps to make such statements relevant. For example, I can remember once I was on the way to some kind of appointment. And I was in San Francisco and I was on a bus and the bus was stuck in traffic and I was sitting there kind of And I was so impatient, waddling here and there, saying, let's go with the traffic.

[78:44]

And suddenly I thought, which is a commonplace thought, I can't walk, it's too far. There's no taxis. I'm just in the bus, I might as well enjoy myself. Now, everyone has thoughts like that. And sometimes you really stop and you don't care. But the times I'd had that experience or thought before I started to practice, Yeah, once I really recognized it, I said, oh, I'm not going to make it. I thought, might as well read or something.

[79:45]

Yeah, good translation. Next time I was in a similar situation, I'd be sitting there sweating. Oh, God, I'm going to be late. But that particular time and that particular bus, from then on, I've never been concerned. I mean, some of my friends would wish I was more on time occasionally. And I seem rather oblivious to whether I'm on time or not. But that's a character flaw. Character flaw.

[80:45]

Yeah. But still. I said it's a character flaw. You didn't translate the word flaw. Flaw. I said it's a significance of character. No, no. No, no. This was not a good translation. Look, he's blushing. A character flaw. Ein Charakterfehler. Yeah, good, yeah. But still... at that point a different kind of time took hold in me. Is that I was always only where I was and there was very little energy about where I could be. So if I'm sitting here Crestone, the center, New York.

[82:08]

It's all some kind of idea. It's not real. Crestone, New York. Preston calls me every now and then. And when they do, I think about it. But when they don't call me, it's just like it doesn't exist for me. And we know this mind. Sometimes you think, I really like a certain person. Or you're friends with somebody. Or you're friends with someone. Perhaps you haven't seen them for a while. And then you hear they're dead. Now, suddenly your mind just says, oh, they're dead.

[83:10]

You would have imagined, well, I hope they don't die, but once they're dead, they're dead. You might have hoped that they wouldn't die, but if they're dead, they're dead. Yes, and sometimes we're even surprised when we say, oh, they're dead. But there's some level in us which just accepts facts. You don't want somebody to die, but when they're dead, suddenly they're dead. Do you understand the feeling I'm talking about? And you don't think, I wish they were dead. As each of us, I mean, one of these days you'll hear, Baker Oshie is dead, I saw in the newspaper. Oh, well, he's dead, huh? That's right. So? She had one tear, but no. But New York and Crestone are like that for me.

[84:35]

They just, they don't exist when I'm here. And I have no thought about it. And it really came in a way from this, on the bus. Not caring where I, what I, what I... So what I'm trying to say here is that practice of meditation and mindfulness makes us... hear simple observations, fundamental observation. In a new way. And the more through practice you've woven mind and body together, and the main alchemy of weaving mind and body together is attention to breath.

[85:40]

And the more mind and body are woven together, the more mental observations change the body. So you find yourself living in a different physical reality. Okay, so let's take this statement of Dogen. So first we have to define body again. Okay. We have a corpse. The corpse of Richard Baker may be here. And the corpse in Buddhism is not a body. The word body is used to mean what makes that stuff of the corpse alive. And the word body is used to mean Yes.

[86:48]

So... Like you might speak about the body of a writer's work. So what makes this body alive, what makes this stuff alive, we call a body in Buddhism. And it's almost synonymous with mind. And though it's used a little differently, still it's almost synonymous with mind. So what makes this stuff now alive? Parents. Friends.

[87:53]

Air. Early snowfalls. And so forth. So there's no boundary to that which makes this body alive. So Dogen doesn't call this the world. He calls it the coming and going of birth and death. And it's this coming and going of birth and death which makes us alive. And there's no boundaries to that. Now, Since I stay with Herman, I use him as an example. And we got in the car and he played a tape where I said, look, let's look at what's not Herman as well as what's Herman. Did you have it set at that place? So I met Herman in Bali. And yeah, it's just by chance.

[89:05]

But now it's no longer chance. Herman is part of my coming and going of birth and death. You cannot define me separately, really. If you want to define me, you can't define me in any real way separately from each of you, all of you. Mm-hmm. So, can you have a feeling of this as your true human body? Now, partly you have to drop your thought shield body. Now, this is another idea in Buddhism that's a little difficult to explain. But let's take the best example I can come up with is when your arm is asleep.

[90:23]

Your arm is completely asleep. You can't find it. Sometimes your legs get that way if you sit in meditation. Where are my legs? You better ring the bell soon or they'll disappear entirely. Okay. But once you can find one point, say you poke your arm, or say you can finally find your little finger, or you do this thing, when you say... Move that finger. Yeah. I don't know which finger. Right? You have this problem. It's still your body, right? I can move this. What happens when I do this? I've confused the image of...

[91:22]

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