Bringing your attention to your breath. And that's the first step. Bringing your attention to your activity. And when you bring your identity out of your conceptual thought, you begin to hear the complexity of being. And the first few years of practice, even five years or more, you're just listening to the complexity. And then after a while you can begin to see patterns. And then you begin to be able to see patterns or to be consciously present in the complexity of being without interfering with it. It's hard to say these things.

[01:19]

When it's taken, I mean really it is hard to say these things. It's taken me about 30 years to be able to speak as easily about these things as I do. And I'm always at the edge of my capacity in the middle of almost every sentence. So you begin to listen to yourself like we listen to these birds. And as you become more at ease in yourself, and you interfere less, you hear more and more subtleties, more and more birds.

[02:26]

The koans are an expression of that. And the koans are trying to, in a non-linear language, or a disguised linear language, trying to kind of snap you into the state of mind which hears the complexity of being. There's a line I like a lot that's been important to me. The student asks, I don't hear the teaching of insentient beings. And the teacher says, although you do not hear it, Do not hinder that which hears it. So that's why still sitting opens you up to this. And that's why the basic teaching of Zen and the basic posture of Zen is uncorrected mind and unfabricated mind.

[04:07]

Okay, now going more specifically to your question. If you bring your mind in meditation to your breath, You are using, again, to use the kind of language I've been using. If you follow my instructions, my instructions are borrowed consciousness. And you use borrowed consciousness to direct your attention to your breath. And then you start, when you just start counting your breath or being aware of your breath, you're in secondary consciousness.

[05:12]

And when you forget about the breath and there's just presence, you're in immediate consciousness. And that sometimes that immediate consciousness will be flooded with images and thoughts and so forth. If you notice it very gently or feel it, you're then in the secondary consciousness. If you start thinking about it, how it's going to affect me and so forth, then you're in debarred consciousness. And you can feel it energetically in your body, the difference. So when you're practicing, you're actually practicing moving back and forth among these. Now, there's also this practice which I don't... We didn't talk about naming impermanence last night, did we?

[06:24]

That when you name your inhale... Now... Counting your breath practice tends toward deepening your meditation. Naming your breath tends toward deepening your mindfulness practice. What is naming your breath? Again, it's like the Buddha raising a flower. It's an extremely simple practice.

[07:25]

You can lift the flower up. You can take the flower away. You can name your breath. Hmm. This is an inhale. This is an exhale. This is an inhale. It's very boring. Or it may seem boring. It's actually boring when your consciousness is not very subtle. Or when your consciousness is always drawn toward distraction. Or always drawn toward likes and dislikes. And likes and dislikes are not very subtle. Again, let's mention Thich Nhat Hanh's famous example of the non-too-fake. When you have a toothache you really would like it to go away.

[08:45]

The thing you want most of all is a non-toothache. The toothache goes away and you've forgotten how wonderful the non-toothache is. But we don't appreciate the non-toothache. We don't appreciate great peace has no sign. Unless it has a sign we can't get involved with it. Because then if it has a sign, then we can like it or dislike it. And Nargajuna's teaching is whenever you oppose one thing, you establish its opposite. How do you get out of this, you know, war, peace, etc.?

[09:52]

Well, you have to get... What happens is when we... Okay, let me stop. What does our usual naming do? We name things into permanence. Almost everything is a name for your house, for your friend who will always be your friend, for the mountain, for the tree. So your habit is to name things into permanence.

[11:03]

And if things are permanent and are going to be around for a while, then you better like or dislike them. You better know... And what are you doing when you name your inhale? You're naming impermanence. And you name your exhale. And when you name your activity, now I'm a talking person. I'm also Richard Baker and I'm also Zen Tatsu. But these are generalizations, really. They're borrowed consciousness. Who I am most exactly and who I really am for you and what is establishing the real field of karma and intentionality

[12:17]

is not Richard Baker or Zen Tatsu, is not that I'm 72 or 57, but that right now I'm a talking person to you, more or less in immediate and secondary consciousness. But that's very impermanent. It's my realist identity, but it's very impermanent. And when I turn and look at Giorgio, then I'm a looking at Giorgio person. And that has some effect on Giorgio and myself. And when I turn and look at Christian, then I'm a looking at Christian person.

[13:27]

Now, when I name my activity like that, I'm naming impermanence. But I'm also naming uniqueness. Because now I look back at Giorgio. And there's a new looking at Giorgio person. And it's somewhat different than it was a moment or two ago. So when you name impermanence, you're also naming uniqueness. You're recognizing uniqueness. You're getting out of a field of generalizations. Generalizations are when I name permanence. Of which there's no such thing as permanence. So you're naming a delusion.

[14:34]

So again, you're in a somewhat unhealthy situation. Doesn't mean that I don't sign things Richard Baker. But when I sign them, I don't think this is Richard Baker signing them. I think this is a signing a receipt person who's sitting here. And that's what I actually feel. I don't feel anything else. When you get in the habit through mindfulness practice of naming impermanence, you're actually making your consciousness softer. There's a word in Japanese, I don't remember what it is, but it's in Zen Mind Beginner's Mind, Es gibt ein japanisches Wort, ich erinnere mich nicht mehr genau, aber es ist ein Zen-Geist, Anfänger-Geist.

[15:55]

Es besteht aus drei Zeichen. Und die sagen, weich, nicht hart, Geist. Und ein harter Geist, der hat die Angewohnheit, Dauerhaftigkeit zu benennen. And naming impermanence locks you into the prison of likes and dislikes. All right, so when you name it impermanence, You begin to be in a more neutral state of mind, which is neither like nor dislike. Which we sometimes call equanimity. And in this mind, your non-too-fake is a sensation of immediate consciousness and a kind of bliss, gratitude feeling. And in this state of mind the non-toothache is a kind of blissful, grateful feeling.

[17:07]

The fact that so much can come out of a little practice like naming your exhale or inhale is a kind of miracle. that you recognize you're changing your habits from naming permanence to naming impermanence. And you begin to have a consciousness which I call in-betweenness. Because you begin to perceive and feel in between either or opposites. Okay. Is that clear?

[18:30]

Is that impermanent? So I would like you all to change your habits and start naming impermanence. Okay. Now, I'm not going to go into this, but I'll just put it up here. I have awareness and consciousness here. Exterior consciousness and interior consciousness. And these three coming under or part of defining exterior consciousness. Now, I think we don't have enough words in English.

[19:33]

As I say, we've got about 80 words for being drunk, but very few words for consciousness. Und wir haben im Englischen nicht besonders viel Worte für Bewusstsein. Wir haben zwar 80 Worte dafür, betrunken zu sein, aber... So, I keep having to use the same words for things that, you know, Flight Filters Rostenfeld and Rostenberg, etc. Das heißt, ich muss hier öfter die gleichen Worte für verschiedene Dinge behalten. But I think it's useful if you want to and ask me, three of you ask me five questions. I'm willing to try to make this a little clearer. Because I think it actually serves, again, as a kind of permission to be open to yourself with more subtleties. So there's awareness, consciousness.

[20:36]

And then there's what we could call your lived body. Which would include your karma. And then there's your actual physical body. And your lived body is an experiential structure that is the result of your culture, your psychological history, and so forth.

[21:38]

And your lived body affects your actual physical body. But it's not the same. And awareness and consciousness, so these four levels are going on all the time. Now, then we have the observer self. Or the observer, where does that fit in? And we have the self, the continuous self, the emergent self. Where does that fit? Because Buddhist practice assumes that it's in at least four territories, including things that link those territories. Now let me see if I can come back to the koan a minute so we can finish.

[22:57]

Because at 10 we're going to have a fire. Is that true? What? Whenever we finish? Okay. Okay, good. So we'll finish in a short time. Yes, Julio. There was a question. Where does the ego of observing self fit in there? And sometimes you always say you bring your attention to your breath or intermediate, and in a way you assume that I have a choice. On the other hand, the whole problem is that I don't think that I have a choice. Yeah, the whole sense of an observer self or an observer field as well.

[23:57]

I would like to come back, if you'll ask me tomorrow, It's a kind of mystery, but we can talk about it. Okay. Now I want to, before you go to this fire and go to this go to bed I'd like to bring see if I can bring us back to Yaoshan and you know in Buddhism there's a tradition of having fire ceremonies and which you take something that you particularly want to transform or be free of and you write it on a piece of paper and then you hold it against

[25:18]

your body and wherever you want that gives it power. And then from the center of your body, usually with two hands, you put it into the fire. And you don't just say, well, it's not like that. You don't just say, well, it's not like that. Or you can just do it with your feeling. You look at the fire and you're feeling it. Okay, I want to transform this. I want to... be free of this or I want to evolve in such a way and you link yourself with the fire. And then you stay with that feeling and you let the burning, you feel the burning in your own body. Okay, Yaoshan wanted to teach.

[26:44]

The members of his community wanted him to teach. They asked him to teach. And he had to answer the request. But he wanted to do something that touched everything. If he said something, he didn't feel that would work. As I said, at the deepest level of our being, there's an intentionality. Like the intentionality of water is to be still. The capacity of water is to be very fluid. But you leave it alone and it returns to stillness. And if it didn't have that return to stillness, it couldn't be fluid.

[28:03]

So it's capable of all that because immediately it goes back to that. This is the kind of intentionality in our being to stillness. As while at the same time we have an equal capacity for movement. So the question Yashan was asking is how do you speak to that intentionality? How do you not hear or act on just the various needs people have? But rather respond to their deep intentionality in a way that touches their life. Now, you don't have to do it the way Yashan did it.

[29:12]

And this koan is to suggest that it's as simple as sitting down in a seat. Doesn't have to be something special. Even sitting down in a seat is a super normal power. Sometimes just taking a breath is a supernormal power. So Yao Shan was asked, he played by the rules of the game. Would you teach? So he did exactly what they asked.

[30:12]

But he came in and left. And he also created, as it says, doubt. And when you're understanding or you feel something, at a deep level, there's a kind of sureness and unsureness simultaneously. Because in uniqueness there's always an unpredictability. So deep understanding is never confident or absolutely sure. Or we have no words for it. It's a complete sureness you just can put your whole life into. But it doesn't have the sureness of predictability. We still don't know what will happen.

[31:27]

And in fact, there's an unpredictable consequence on each action. So you do it and you're ready. And it's a bit scary. Most of our life we have to move in a territory of some predictability and sureness. Certainly in our daily mind. But in our non-daily mind, that touches our whole life, we are ready to live and die. Anyway, Elshan was trying to say something like this. So let's go burn up our karma with Giorgio.

[32:39]

And together maybe we can have a feeling together if we together could imagine something that we can't name Dass wir zusammen uns etwas vorstellen, was wir nicht benennen können. Dass wir alle gern verwirklichen würden. Wir müssen uns das nicht erzählen. Aber lasst uns das einfach tun. Have a feeling that you're putting something in the fire that all of us would like to accomplish. You don't have to know what it is. You just have the feeling I'm putting something in the fire that all of us would like to accomplish. And something will burn up. And seeds will be planted. And we need to give Christian a rest. Thank you very much. Thank you for the fire last night.

[34:10]

Really? I went and checked it about 2 o'clock. And it was still glowing. I think someone was sleeping beside it. Was someone sleeping beside the fire? Oh, you were. I hope I didn't wake you up. Well, Yao Shan ascended his seat and didn't utter a single word. And then he went to his room. And when he was asked why he didn't utter a single word, he said that there are teachers of treatises and teachers of scriptures, and I'm a Zen teacher.

[35:19]

Not necessarily look at it. Yeah. So what did he mean? And I'm trying to find, of course, some words to give you a feeling at least for what Yao Shan meant. Or maybe what he meant isn't quite right, but what he was doing. There's a force present. I don't know. I'm just going to say some things, okay? We'll hope for the best.

[36:44]

This isn't quite right, what I'm saying, but I want to say something. There's a force present in our life that's bigger than the details of our life. And I use words like force with some... Force. F-O-R-C-E, yeah. It's a force in our life that's bigger than the details of our life. I don't know what the resonance of it in German is, but the resonance in English is a little funny, but I don't know what other word to use. Anyway, there's a force present that's bigger than the details. And we can't we can't see it in the details.

[37:56]

Or we don't see it in the details. It's a little bit like this morning I loved hearing you chant here after Zazen. It's a little bit like behind the chanting you hear the mokugyo, the wooden fish. You don't have to translate that. But imagine if the mokugyo was silent. But the chanting is there, but the mokugyo is there, but you don't hear it, but it's there.

[39:01]

Maybe there's a bigger mokugyo behind that mokugyo even, going... And you don't hear that either. Or your own heart is beating. Or some big heart you don't see is beating. No, no. When a baby is born.

[40:09]

It's a quite commonplace event. But it actually took a, we have no words for the enormity of such an event in time and space. It takes this whole cosmos over eons to come to the point to create a baby. Now, I'm here trying to teach something about Buddhism. But really more than what I teach is that I appear here at all. But somehow I got here from other places and now I'm on this wooded mountain in Austria.

[41:22]

You know, there's various histories of how I got here, etc., that brought me in my life to this point, and so forth. And that's certainly one reality, a comparative reality. A relative reality. But in another sense, I just emerged. I kind of squirted up out of the pillow here. And each of you have appeared here. And you have various histories of how you got here. But there's another reality that Buddhism would call the absolute in which each of you just kind of appeared here.

[42:36]

Independent of your history. And the real karmic event is our mutual appearance here. Now we talked yesterday about if your dead grandmother or grandfather could appear. And we all agreed it would be a remarkable event. As I said, you would probably be transfixed. Transfixed means unable to move. I'd love to find that these smart people occasionally don't know a word. Maybe you couldn't, as I said, move your head or eyes or look at yourself even.

[43:58]

You couldn't look forward or backwards. All you could do is see the appearance of your dead grandmother or grandfather. And you'd feel definitely a certain power at that moment. But your grandmother only appeared for a moment before she disappeared. For most of history, your grandfather was not present. before his birth and after his death. So it's not remarkable at all that he didn't or she didn't appear. Because most of the time she didn't appear.

[45:02]

She only appeared for a short time and long enough to you know, make it possible for you to be here. And hopefully to enjoy her life. So what's remarkable is not that she didn't appear, but that she appeared. Now, I'm saying something that's totally obvious. It's the big non-toothache. But it's what we don't notice. So this koan is trying to direct us to what we don't notice.

[46:05]

And it's a part of a development that's been going on in the koans we've been studying. So again, It's not remarkable that your grandmother or grandfather doesn't appear right now. What's remarkable is that she appeared at all. It's more remarkable than if your dead grandmother appeared. If your dead grandmother appeared, it would be an anomaly. Something out of normal. But the fact that we appear simultaneously is a miracle. It's actually not something you can understand.

[47:25]

It just is. But the question is, can you feel that? So... So again, it's an extraordinary event when a baby appears. It's taken everything in this multi-universe to produce a single event like that. And the way a Buddhist looks at the Christ event is that the world honors the birth of the Christ child.

[48:34]

The whole world is witness to this Christ child being born. It's such an important event in our culture that we count time from that. Before Christ and after Christ. But if you see the lovely or schmalzy pictures of the Christ child, Yeah, it's still lovely even when it's schmalzig. Here's this little baby. And there's the Virgin Mary. And there's Joseph. Who looks rather unnecessary usually. But it's the happy family. So it doesn't look much different from happy families in our mind, at least anywhere.

[50:05]

And for the most part, I think healthy people when they have their own baby, it's almost like the Christ was born. Our society as a whole doesn't. on their birth all the time. As we can see so painfully in the ethnic cleansing in Bosnia and so forth. And the many children Men and women who are being killed.

[51:22]

Or in Somalia where there's always feuding warlords in a vacuum. But still the basic direction of human beings is to look to life as a miracle. So if you can imagine that you were present at the birth of Christ, You are wandering along in the half-desert. And there seemed to be a bright star that was, you know, beckoning you. Beckoning?

[52:25]

Beckoning means calling. And you were feeling particularly wise. Yes. And you appeared and there was this, you know, glorious little baby being born. I think you'd all feel some power again, as if your dead grandmother appeared again, grandfather appeared. But what Buddhism tries to teach is that this birth of the Christ child is happening moment after moment. And it's a kind of flaw in our consciousness that we only would take it for granted if we were at the, we would only feel the power of it in a special circumstance like Christ being born.

[53:32]

Now the first koan in the Shoyaroku about the Buddha appearing on, getting up on his seat and speaking. We could call, it's called the world-honored one. The world honors the appearance of a human being. And in this koan where Yao Shan gets up on his seat, We could call the world-honored seat the world-honored seat.

[54:37]

Because this koan isn't so much emphasizing Yao Shan as it's emphasizing the seat. As if the birth of the baby Jesus emphasized the cradle. Meaning all the conditions that allow us to appear. So perhaps a practice for a crypto-Buddhist Christian would be to imagine each occasion as the cradle. So there's a kind of logic, I think, to what I'm saying. But we can't understand this by logic or thinking. I think it requires a kind of vision.

[55:52]

As the Christ child and Mary and Joseph is a kind of vision. A vision of the center of our existence and of how time began. So again, I don't know quite how to give you a feeling for this really, but maybe it's a kind of vision that you can begin to sustain. of the miracle of our presence in the world. Now, if you were just about to die, And you can feel the force that holds you together is about to crumble.

[57:23]

You might look at the world with a tremendous clarity and gratitude. Almost again as if your dead grandparent appeared You know, we really usually die from the feet up. Our feet start getting cold. So you're lying there or sitting there, if you like. And you can feel your legs starting to get cold. So you know the end is near. But you still have some energy left. And you hear your friend, hopefully. And you see the room or the trees.

[58:26]

And you're amazed really that you can hold the appearance because you know it's about to go. And often people, just before they die, gather their energy and hold it for a while and become clear in two things and then go away. Like a last effort to cherish this miracle for a moment. To indulge ourselves a moment longer in this miracle. And then you relax. I think you might recognize that there's been a tremendous force which has held your living together these years.

[59:45]

And you might even sense that the whole room, the trees, the people are also held together by an unseen force. This big, silent heart that's beating someone. And I think if you have that feeling, you can die quite peacefully. Because you know that you can't go away from this vision. There will just be some change. But you're quite used to change. His Holiness the Dalai Lama says that every day he practices dying.

[60:57]

He remembers that he's going to die. And he goes through the feeling as if he were going to let go and to die. Every day he reminds himself. This is part of his practice. He says he doesn't know if it's going to work when the moment comes. He says, I'm well prepared, but you never know. All these preparations may be for nothing. They probably help his life. They help his life. Aber vielleicht helfen Sie seinem Leben. Sie helfen ihm in seinem öffentlichen Auftreten auch durch Rotary Clubs in Amerika.

[62:00]

But even in those talks, he probably mostly rests in immediate consciousness. Makes most of the participants feel that they can let go a little bit. And mostly they probably don't have any idea that this letting go they are feeling arises from his letting go into the experience of willingness to die. So there's a certain force that holds us all in this emerging right now. And the reason we don't see it mostly is the usual problem of our

[63:33]

mind, our attention being so caught up in the comparative identity stream. So all these koans are ways to say, hey, here's another way to turn away from the identity stream. And another way to show you what it's like might be like if you do. Hmm. Though Yaoshan just comes into the room, appears and disappears.

[64:59]

And the koan says, you know, as a star led the wise men to Jesus, the baby Jesus, This koan says, how would they know? How would they know that the stars, what does it say? How could they know the stars would blaze with glory? And he says this act of supernormal power is not the same as little ones. So this koan is presenting Gyāshan getting up on his seat with some of the same kind of cosmic support that the baby Jesus' birth got.

[66:19]

So the thing is that this force which holds everything together is bigger than the details. But it can also only be seen in the details. So the koan is trying to show you how to look at the details so you feel this power. Now this force is not going to go away suddenly. And the world will disintegrate. Or you will disintegrate. But maybe it will.

[67:20]

It's not exactly that it was there before we were born. We're kind of an observer in it and watching around and leave. It also has to be understood that when Yaoshan appears, the seat appears. This cradle that the baby Jesus was born in It's not just any old cradle. There's lots of many old cradles. This is the cradle that baby Jesus was born. So this unique cradle appears when the baby Jesus appears. And baby Jesus' cradle wasn't there before baby Jesus was born.

[68:22]

I told you, I warned you, I didn't know what I was going to do this morning. I didn't think I was going to be talking about the baby Jesus I'm quite sure so in this vision we the sense of Buddhism this vision is we honor the seat we honor the appearance Not its history, etc., but just that it emerges. And not only do we honor the appearance, now this may be strange, hard for you to translate, but we honor that we honor the appearance.

[69:29]

It's not just that the universe exists, which is so wonderful. It's that the universe is self-reflective. That we can appear in the universe and know that we appear in the universe. So we honor the appearance of this seat. Yeah, the seat, nothing special. The seat each of you is on. And I think in a way we can say deeper than that, we honor that we can honor the seat. This is a kind of human power. So now Buddhism doesn't just say, yeah, it's good to be respectful for what we're given.

[71:16]

But it says that this is also us, this force which holds everything together. And we are the force. And if we disintegrate, the force disintegrates. Or we have some participation in it. It's actually not outside us. Everything is inside. And you could practice with some such word or language, and Zen uses language in this way. Look around today and say, everything is inside. There's no outside. Outside is a delusion. Or an illusion.

[72:21]

Now, you live in two worlds, then. And how to live in these two worlds is the teaching of Buddhism. You live in the world in which there's outside and inside. And you live in the world where everything is inside. So that is a shift in vision that's helped by this vision. So I think if you don't know, really know your relationships to this appearance. To this emerging. Although I said it doesn't disappear all at once.

[73:24]

The world doesn't disintegrate. But often we are crumbling emotionally. Or psychologically or physically. And I think that happens more, much more, when you don't know how to live in everything as inside. Maybe there's more, I feel there's a little more I could say.

[75:17]

But the more I could say now is a little bit over the edge of what can't be said. And maybe you can feel this yourself, you know, that there's a bit over the edge that you can't say. But we can feel it. Like I suggested last night that maybe you throw something in fact or in your mind into the fire. Something that would transform and benefit all of us. Even though you don't know what would transform or benefit all of us, you bring that deep wish to your activity. That kind of intention helps hold this all together.

[76:40]

Because you are a participant in it. So maybe we could call this knowing the mind of mutual emerging. In English, to string words together is pretty uncommon, but then to change the string into a German string where words are strung together much more often, it's hard.

[77:46]

Well, maybe responding to what I said, what we brought up last night, what is the, or let's have something to say about the observer self. So maybe after the break, I could say something about that if you'd like. Because this sense of the function, And dimension of the observer's self has a lot to do with this koan. So let's sit for a couple of minutes and we'll have a break. Everything seems to be coming apart.

[79:03]

Or you feel nothing means anything anymore. Or you feel it's impossible to go ahead or back, all the alternatives don't work. At that moment you may say, well, at least I'll stay alive. I don't know what will happen, but I'll just stay alive anyway.

[80:09]

This kind of decision is bigger than actually birth and death. Because of course you're staying alive to die. But somehow you decide to just Stay alive, and that includes dying. There's a tremendous power in this, even if it arises in your desperation. You don't have to wait till you're desperate to feel this power. Aber ihr müsst nicht warten, bis ihr verzweifelt seid, um diese Kraft zu spüren. Just to recognize that we've all appeared just now.

[81:44]

Everything else is added on to that. So, 25 minutes or so.

[83:53]

Do any of you have any questions about this stuff before I talk about the observer self? Yes. I want to ask You said interior consciousness and exterior consciousness cannot be different. So my question is how to bring feelings together? If you experience one side, meaning something positive, and later on the negative side comes, so how to condense the negative side more in exterior consciousness, seems to go on more in exterior consciousness?

[84:55]

So how to bring these two consciousnesses together and condense them, so that... Yes, that's my question, how to practice that. Okay, maybe you'd like to say that in German. . And my question is, how does it work when I think about a problem and try to solve it with my inner consciousness, and I experience something positive, and then the negative side comes later, What do you mean by the word condense? What do you mean in English?

[86:13]

I don't understand. To breathe? To bring power into the moment. So... Yeah, I can't... You accept that there's interior and exterior consciousness. And what you're asking is how to function within both, Yes, maybe I think there must be a possibility to bring that together and to have more freedom.

[87:27]

To bring exterior and interior consciousness together. All right. Well, let me... I hope that in talking about it I can answer your question because it's hard for me to specifically respond to it. Now, does anyone else have any questions about this exterior and interior stuff? Yeah. Yesterday you were talking about the awareness and about consciousness and to get the difference between them. The difference between awareness and consciousness. Well, the simple difference that I always make is awareness is what wakes you up at 6.02. Without an alarm clock. And when you're not conscious because you're asleep. But many people at least have that experience. That's clearly not consciousness, but we can call it awareness.

[88:29]

I call it awareness. Okay, so why make a distinction? Or what can we say about the distinction? One distinction we can make is that awareness is a conductor for intention, but it's not a conductor for comparative thinking. In other words, you can intend to wake up at 6.02 and you'll wake up at 6.02. So it'll carry an intention. But if you try to think, it turns into consciousness. Now, this may be a very deep, fundamental actuality.

[89:33]

But It appears in various forms in our ordinary life. In the sense that you can get a sense for it or feel for it. Something's different going on. For example, you're sleeping. Or you're just about to go to sleep. You're three quarters asleep. Someone comes in and speaks to you. And you have to answer their questions. But you know if you're going to wake up, you won't be able to go back to sleep.

[90:37]

So you can sort of answer their questions in one syllable words or single words. Like you can say, do you want to be awakened in the morning? They ask you. You could say yes. Will we go somewhere? Yes, I will. If they say, do you really want to or not? Because if you answer that question, it starts conceptual thinking and it wakes you up. So there's a distinction between, but you're thinking in this awareness, you're thinking, you're hearing the questions, but you can't think conceptually about changing your state.

[91:41]

These are ordinary experiences. But they tell us something about how we exist. Now, I will say more about awareness in a moment, so in another larger context. So, something else. Yes. What I would be interested in is, I have to believe that moral, moral thinking during immediate consciousness are not isolated, they are interdependent, and there is a relation between those three things. So I would be interested in this. Go ahead. Yeah. What do you think the relationship is? Well, I think that they have all past, present, and future, and that there is an evolution in each of the consciousnesses, and that they can be differently cultivated.

[93:16]

They can be differently cultivated. Yeah, that's true. And therefore there is some knowing to relate it. Because if somebody is saying something to me in borrowed consciousness, I can work with that in immediate consciousness, or I can go to borrowed consciousness. Or if you say something in borrowed consciousness to me, it can work in immediate consciousness. So it's not so big.

[93:44]

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