And to have a feeling for it in other people. So when we do walking meditation too, we're on a line walking back and forth and so forth, you begin to feel each other's auras as you bump into them. And there's a certain dimension of this practice which is maturing your continuum. It's like flight time in Zazen mind. You know, a pilot has to have so many hours of flight time.

[01:01]

An adept has to have so many hours of zazen mind time. And the interaction of zazen mind with others. And in that way you mature your continuum. Because this practice isn't just a simple matter of realizing a continuum, it's maturing that continuum. Now, when I said yesterday you're realizing interior space, I meant there's no outside. Everything is interior. The world you're actually living in a great big stomach. The phrase mind only, which is used in Vijnana Vadan and Yogacara teachings,

[02:06]

Doesn't mean, you know, thought, the world is only thought or mind in the sense of the English philosopher Barclay. I mean, this is not, it's wood, not thought. Yeah. It has something to do with thought, but... But all we know of it is thought. Or thought's too narrow a word. All we know of it is mind. It's not that the world is mind, exactly, but that all we know of the world is mind. So in that sense, the world is mind only. Now, when you realize the world as mind only, when you realize the world as a profound interiorization, every moment of realizing this, of actualizing this, matures this continuum.

[03:45]

Now, I would say there are four important dimensions to realization or enlightenment in Buddhist practice. Now, one kind of realization or enlightenment is we could say, I could say self-realization, but that's too much like a particular... term, maybe psychological realization. And through our life, through insight, through therapy, so forth, we can have many insights and openings into our personality.

[04:52]

We can see ourselves better or we can transform ourselves and so forth. That's one kind of enlightenment. Second kind is, maybe we could say, is fundamental realization. Is realization in a larger sense than your personality? Or your story or your ego? Now, fundamental realization or primordial realization or intrinsic realization, I'm just trying to find words for it. It's also the realization of essence of mind or original mind.

[06:08]

Okay, now this is realization out of which everything else arises. Okay, so that's the second. Third is the capacity to receive realization. You can have a realization experience and it has almost no effect on you. So much of Zen practice is aimed at, koan study and so forth, is increasing your capacity to receive illumination. And fourth is the capacity to manifest or actualize realization.

[07:31]

So when we're teaching Buddhism, you're attempting to teach the capacity and the the capacity for reception and the capacity for actualization simultaneously with creating the opportunities or conditions for enlightenment. Now, I'm explaining this all like this because I feel that if you have a picture of what's going on, You can trust the practice more and have more faith in it. And faith in the practice is necessary. You won't get very far. Faith is the alchemy, the power that makes it work. Okay, now, it's helpful to start Zen practice when you're young.

[09:02]

Because you have more time to become intimate with the practice, that's all. You just become more familiar and you're maturing, you're continuing. But Zen practice doesn't exist in any particular time zone as this koan begins, in a place before the beginning of time. A turtle heads for fire. This is a funny image, a turtle heads for fire. It's not anything many wet turtles known for longevity would do. But But it means in Buddhist way of looking at things, Zen lingo, it means a place before time.

[10:21]

So from that point of view, realization, Zen practice doesn't depend on how old you are or how long you've practiced. And those of you who are approaching my age may hear that with some relief. And although it's good to start practice when you're young, What also is very interesting to me is people who have matured themselves in Western culture and in Western spiritual traditions or in any other spiritual tradition, and they bring that maturity to Zen practice.

[11:33]

And I think that's one of the main ways Zen Buddhism will come home in the West. If in a Conrad-ly way we share our maturity with this practice. Okay, and so we have these four dimensions of enlightenment that I mentioned. And although I called, it sounds like the capacity for reception and the capacity for manifestation are not enlightenment, and manifestation.

[12:43]

Actualization means. I'm glad you know all these German words. All three of these work together. In other words, if you develop your capacities for actualization or reception, you increase the likelihood of realization. And the greater your capacity, the smaller enlightenment you need. So if your capacity is big enough, everything is enlightening you moment after moment. And real realization means that you are constantly being enlightened. Now, I presented it in this way to say that these three, the two capacities and enlightenment itself, fundamental enlightenment, are somewhat independent from psychological realization.

[14:07]

because you actually can be enlightened in a fundamental way and not have your personality very together. And there are prominent and unnamed examples of this. So generally it's thought that when you realize your capacity and fundamental enlightenment, then you go back and perfect your personality. And the development and polishing and realization of your personality that occurs through your interactions and through your insight and so forth. And in contemporary society, often through therapy.

[15:49]

So I'm just saying that to give you again a picture of these things working together and the importance of working on your personality. And the importance of understanding and developing your own story. Okay. Now going back to walking meditation. Mm-hmm. We're doing walking meditation for the various reasons I gave. But if we're going to really make it walking meditation Mm-hmm. you would practice with your breathing and with the vijnanas.

[17:12]

Now, one of the things we do, chant, I don't think it's on this card, the Sandokai. It's on the card? One of the things we chant, that is the Sandokai, is the merging of difference and sameness. And it's one of the fundamental teachings of our lineage. And one of the things it says is, as a leaf, I don't know how to put it exactly. Knowing the leaf, you know the root.

[18:20]

It says something like, knowing the leaf, through knowing the leaf, you know the root. States of mind merge and do not merge. What this means is that The word vijnana means to know the parts together. Now, one of the qualities of what we mean by enlightenment is it's profoundly self-organizing. And communicative. What do I mean by this? Hmm. What this Sandokai means in this teaching of knowing the leaf, you know the root.

[19:43]

And that the senses and the sense fields both remain in their own state and merge. means that if you actually know the leaves, you'll know the root. For example, I mean I'm just trying to think of something to say here. If a biologist or a gardener sees a tree and looks at its leaf and its twigs and the bark, And sees all the parts, or sees even a few parts clearly, it will know all the parts. That's the idea, anyway. If you just see a tree, oh yeah, maybe that's a maple. Or it's just a bunch of green stuff going by.

[21:02]

You're not going to know the roots. Or if you know your life is a bunch of stuff going by, you're not going to know the source. Okay. So the sense of this is, if you're on one of our walking meditations, and you're practicing with the vision on us, Now the vijnanas are brought up very specifically in this koan number three. And they're referred to in the Sandokai, the merging of difference and sameness, as the gate to realization. to self-organizing communicative realization.

[22:16]

So, in other words, what this Sandokai is pointing out, if you make use of, say, for example, the walking meditation to practice the Vijnanas, And standing by the pond this morning when some of us were there, your stomach feels the water pushing up from the horizon towards you. or whatever you feel, your physical vijnana directly experiences the water and the plants. And the root of your tongue and the whole quality of your mouth also feels the whole field. And there's perhaps an unexpressed poem at the root of your tongue.

[23:32]

And your eyes shimmer with the forest deep in the pond. And your ears are... merged with this, what I call the mysterious auditorium of sound, in which so many birds and insects are speaking to the forest and the pond. Now, the Sandakaya is directly referring to The fact that each of these sense fields can be experienced independently and remains in its own state. And you should know each in its own state.

[24:35]

And you also know them merged as mind. And merged as, say, sound and mouth or sound and body. When you know the parts, you know all the parts. And one of the parts is, and the fundamental part, is the non-gressible continuity of being. And in that sense, when you know the parts clearly together and separately, the non-graspable continuity of being manifests itself.

[25:38]

And this is a kind of, I think in contemporary lingo, a self-organizing system. I don't know what else to call it. And the parts begin to communicate with each other. Und die Teile fangen an, miteinander zu kommunizieren. And this is also the subtle round mouth of the hinge pivot or the hinge nest. Und das ist auch der subtile, runde Mund des Drehpunkts oder der Türangel oder des Nestes. So you see in this example that when you begin to know how you function as mind only, and you begin to live in and be able to locate yourself in your sense fields,

[26:49]

independently and merged, this undivided world enters and is experienced simultaneously with the divided world. so as you increase the capacity for enlightenment you increase the likelihood of enlightenment because enlightenment is profoundly communicative it starts communicating with all parts of you if you let it so practice is how to begin to let it how to begin to breathe to find your being as such to be willingly just as you are suffering or happy And that willingness to be just as you are starts a profound communication with the Buddha who you also are.

[28:22]

And with each person who you also are. and with every other person that you are. And for me it is always very special to practice with you here. And although you may be tired of hearing me say it, I'm really grateful to be practicing with you. I really want to continue my practice. And you probably don't know how much I need your help. I haven't designed this life where I practice with so many people because my practice is so good.

[29:37]

I just need lots of people to help me keep going. I need to go to Zazen and stuff. You know, that's a kind of modesty, but it's also true. It's not really modesty, it's true. But also I want to, I really want some of you at least, all of you if possible, to continue this teaching. So I'm trying to establish your view in the teaching. You know, the seventh... Oh, well, before I get into that, let me say, because the question comes up, during Sashin, although the custom is that we don't wash, take long baths, showers, and so forth...

[31:09]

Anyway, the custom is not to wash our hair or luxuriate in the tub. But you're certainly welcome to wash your feet or under your eyes. I don't mind the natural look. But some of you are bothered by it, so if you want to wash, you can welcome the wash, too. Okay, now... The seventh, I've referred to the Vijnanas. Now the seventh Vijnana, the teaching of the seventh Vijnana, is that the world is ultimately a supreme act of imagination.

[32:26]

Imagination or intention. I don't mean it's imaginary. I mean it's an act of imagination. And I won't say more. I won't explain that at this time. But just to say that it's at this point why intention, view, and vows are so important. Why the view of the world is so important. So that's one of the reasons I've decided to... do this seminar in Heidelberg in a couple weeks, three weeks or so, on the precepts. And also because quite a number of you have asked to take the precepts.

[33:43]

Now, it's been the custom within my centers in the last 15 or 20 years to sew your own raksu or small okesa. Now, I didn't know whether this was going to be possible for you since you don't live together and can help each other. And but it turns out that for a lot of people it's pretty difficult to do without considerable help.

[34:44]

And then some people have problems like, I can't sew because my mother used to force me to and stuff. I don't know what the Buddha or Avalokiteshvara would think of that. When he was considering the suffering of the world. But in any case, many of you found it pretty difficult to do. So at the seminar, I mean, those of you, I know some of you have this question. So at the seminar, we'll sort of decide if we make them over a longer period of time or we buy them from a robe shop in Japan.

[35:49]

And it's not clear to everyone, and I haven't made it clear, that it's those of you who would like to study the precepts but not necessarily at this time take them, if there's room, you're welcome to come to the seminar. The study of the precepts is the study of how we establish our practice. And enter into lineage. Next weekend, I think it's next weekend in Amsterdam or somewhere in the countryside. I'm going to concentrate on bodhisattva practice and how it relates to actually some of the things we're talking about here.

[37:16]

Then there's my first seminar in Munich, right? Which is on equanimity and And empathetic joy, okay. And then there's one in Lisbon, in Portugal, the middle of October, but that's too far away for you to be concerned about. Then I go back, too. Actually, then I go to New York to be part of a meeting to discuss the design of the Cathedral of St. John the Divine. Which is the largest Gothic cathedral in the world.

[38:22]

Yes, I mean, I would prefer to have no reason. There's too many reasons around here. There's probably some reason, but I can't seem to remember. After Sashin, we can discuss it. I mean, I'm not making fun of the question, actually.

[39:43]

It's just... It doesn't... You know, the reason is not important right now. Now, this... Colin and I mentioned at the beginning of the seminar of the Sashin What is the price of rice in Lu Ling? Or in Leipzig? And the question is, that starts out, what is the great meaning of Buddhism? And Ching Luan answers, What is the price of rice in Lu Ling? Now, again, as I've said, this is a typical way of teaching of Zen Buddhism.

[40:47]

And you can look at the question as, well, the price of rice can't be assessed. How do you know what the price of rice is or the price of potatoes in Ireland? But the koan says as soon as you look at it that way, you're already into bushels and pecks. Yeah, in trouble. No, bushels is the measure. A bushel of apples, a bushel of rice. A liter of rice, I don't know. Do you have bushels in Germany? No. What do you have?

[42:06]

Kilo. Kilo of rice, okay. But in the old days, what did they have before kilos? Scheffel, yeah. Scheffel of rice, huh? Und Unzen or so. Yeah, bushels. Mm-hmm. So from that point of view, you can say, you know, what is the price of Buddhism? And part of this, his response may be, because this person is asking, and what is the meaning of Buddhism, may be asking a question like, should I practice it? What's the value of Buddhism? And so forth. And so from that point of view, he answers just what is the price of rice in Lu Ling. And can you excuse me for a minute?

[43:49]

This room is so warm and my room was so cold that I have robes on which are completely like I had a winter coat on. Can you wait a minute while I change? The point of this story of what is the price of rice is really quite simple but quite important. They tell a little story about an emperor who asks his minister, How can we achieve great peace? And the minister says, The people are not at war.

[45:03]

Things go on about as usual. Farmers have their festivals and singing. If there's some peace other than this, I don't know how to help you. He says, peace has no form. So in this sense, a question like what is the price of rice in Lu Ling is, you can reverse it, say, instead of what is the great meaning of Buddhism, you can say what is the great meaning of rice in China, say. It's not a question you can answer.

[46:04]

It's not a question you can answer. And you can't answer the question, what is the meaning or great meaning of Buddhism? And it's much like the questions I asked you last night. What would you most like to resolve from your past? And what would you most like to accomplish in the future? And what would you most like to realize in the present? Now, we can, and it's important to look at such questions, and we can do so.

[47:30]

And sometimes there's some feeling, some strand of recognition or meaning. and occasionally some insight or a big recognition but usually it's just something we face it's like trying to know the loom behind the cloth Although there's a saying used in Zen Buddhism, although I can show you the mandarin ducks I've embroidered, I can't show you the needle which I used to make them.

[48:41]

So the sense of it is that you face these questions, what is the meaning of Buddhism or what is... What can I resolve in my life? As questions you can't answer, but that you keep facing. And this is typical of how Zen Buddhism approaches basic questions including koans. You know, war may have some particular form, but peace doesn't have some particular form.

[49:43]

So, You don't want to try to give your life too much particular form. Now you can also ask, what is the meaning of, why have something like Buddhism? When the world exists here, I mean all these, say, beautiful trees on the property here. Why put Buddhism between us and the trees? Why isn't the tree, the tree is good enough. What do you need Buddhism for? But the problem is we put the tree between us and the tree.

[50:50]

So the question is how do you take away the tree between us and the tree? Maybe this is the teaching of Buddhism. Baumism Okay. Now, some of you... For me, Doksan is very helpful. And you present to me many aspects of practice. More than you realize, actually. And... Your questions also help me see when I'm not clear about something or I haven't realized some problems in the way I present something.

[52:00]

And several of you brought up the sense of not quite knowing what I meant by interior space. So this is so important that I think I would like to try to spend a little time on it with you. Okay. When I say interior space, I mean the exterior space is actually interior. Now let's go back to where we were yesterday a little bit, is that mind only doesn't mean the world is a figment of imagination. Figment means something.

[53:09]

Yeah. That's good? Yes. Oh, okay. Okay. My teammate here. So it may be, now this may confuse the translation, it may be an act of imagination, but not a figment of imagination. It's certainly intention and imagination play a role in it. Okay. So it's mind only because we only know things through mind. Okay. So, now, since this is so slippery, uh,

[54:10]

because our language is about the external world. Since this is so slippery and we're talking with each other, and I don't have a blackboard here, so this is in your brain cells, I'm going to be somewhat repetitive so we can kind of hold this idea. In other words, the world is interior because we... because our experience of it is an interior experience. In other words, again, the world is in fact

[55:39]

An interior world. The exterior world is in fact an interior world. Because that's the way we experience it. Now, if that's a fact, why is it so unnoticed? Because it makes a very, very big difference in your mental and physical health. Now, is it unnoticed just because we're stupid? I don't think so. Is it unnoticed because there's a thorough cultural bias to not notice it? Yes, that's partly true. Our culture particularly points out and emphasizes the externality of the world. But even Buddhist cultures which point out the internality of the world still don't get it.

[57:16]

So it's not just a cultural bias. Or cultural emphasis, yes. You say the world, the exterior world, inside, is this an inside which has no outside? There's no outside. in the realm of human experience. For you, the internal world is the world in your mind, but still there is a physical world in the outside. Yes. If you wouldn't exist, the physical world wouldn't be there. That's a more complicated question. Because to assume that we're not there is such a huge assumption that it makes an assumption about the whole thing. Okay.

[58:21]

All right. Now, it's not... The reason it's not noticed, I would say, is... is the extraordinary magnetism of the objective world. Magnetism and the external world is the objective world is how we function. And you have to see the world as external in order to function and to be practical. And it's because of the way our senses work it's an extremely persuasive externality. The act of perceiving the objective world draws us into the objective world.

[59:33]

Now, is that so much clearer? Okay. Now, Okay, so you can have the... I can tell you this intellectually. You can also have the perception or insight that this is so. But this doesn't... produce a bodhisattva. Because you need to have the sphere or realm in which this interiorization can occur.

[60:42]

Now, you can perceive that the exterior world is in fact an interior perception. But you can't sustain that fact. And that the ability to recognize and sustain that fact is what is in Buddhism called the establishment of view. Und diese Fähigkeit, dies aufrechtzuerhalten und zu verwirklichen, nennt man jetzt im Buddhismus, das Entstehen von der richtigen Einstellung oder Sichtweise. Now, you know in zazen how difficult it is to even count your breath. Und ihr wisst, wie schwierig es im zazen ist, gerade den Atem zu zählen. Thoughts, which aren't even the external world. Thoughts about the external world, about your future, about this and that.

[61:57]

I mean, they sweep away your breath. So so much for, you know, spiritual insight. Okay. If you can't even count your breaths or stay with your breaths in zazen and it's even harder during the day in your work a day because of thoughts and everything how much harder it is to maintain this interiorization when the external world is far more persuasive than your thoughts. So even though you may recognize this as true, it's very difficult to see the benefit of recognizing it, first of all.

[63:03]

And even if you recognize its value, you don't have the ability to do it. So even in cultures in which the emphasis is on the exterior world as actually an interior experience, It still requires yogic practice and yogic skills to develop the sphere of interiorization. So what I'm trying to do in this session is through teachings, And through the experience of Sashin itself, sitting, in our own experience, is to establish or begin to establish this sphere of interiorization.

[64:32]

to establish the view that allows practice to work. Now, the reason I bring up things like the three questions last night is that Koans don't work because there's so much teaching in the koans. Koans work because they're a kind of fishnet of the teaching, which captures the ingredients of your life. If when you study a koan, if 90% of the content isn't your own ingredients, the koan won't work. So you have to find somehow to bring the stuff of your life into the net of teachings. Okay, that's fairly clear.

[65:55]

Now a little, you know, historical aside. I don't know, you know, I'm not a scholar of development of communism and so forth. And I'm not discussing this to establish this as historically true. I'm bringing this up because just to show that I think at least that these things we're talking about have a wide consequence.

[67:03]

It seems to me that you could make a case at least for communism and Marxism having developed through a mixture of things which includes a rejection of the German bourgeoisie and a rejection of English-British industrialism, and the creation of an impoverished and alienated working class, and a rejection of religion and Judaism by Jews. And you get a kind of, isn't there a word, gemeinschaft?

[68:21]

Yes, the German word. Yeah, which means, what does it mean? Well, in the little I've read and seen the word used, it seems to represent a kind of German romantic ideal. Of knowing the world in a kind of totality. or free of dualisms. Whether this is all in this word or not, I don't know. But I do know that at that time, in that generation, there was a longing to know nature simply and directly and to know things with a kind of totality.

[69:31]

This is also a period which wasn't true centuries earlier in which books and intellectuals could overturn governments. And I knew Edward Konsey pretty well, whose scholarship in Sanskrit is necessary for this discussion we're having today. And he went to Heidelberg, I believe, where also this Hungarian Lukas went. And Konze spoke to me about that. his generation, including Heidegger, who were looking for some totalitarian solution to the world's problems.

[70:51]

The world they saw was so ugly, they wanted to destroy it and recreate it. And some went into political totalitarianism and some went into, like Konse, into seeing the Prajnaparamita Sutras as a way to establish the world. And some went into political totalitarianism Now whether my sort of quick way of looking at this is correct or not I do feel that this intimation of a spiritual reality or of an intimacy or oneness needs to be understood in its place.

[72:09]

And the yearning which so many of us have for a love object or a different kind of better world, is put immediately into a more realistic perspective when you actually can experience the world as interior. Because almost all alienation disappears. Your sense of separation from the world and from others disappears. And it's the condition of a bodhisattva practice, knowing the suffering of others, knowing the condition of each person's life.

[73:19]

Now I can assure you even understanding this it's not easy to realize. Or at least from my own experience. But also from my own experience I can tell you it is possible. But from my own experience, I can tell you that it is possible to get your foot in the door. And with your foot in the door, sometimes you get one leg in. So when you're practicing here in this session and you are sitting many periods of zazen and sometimes it's good by the way to have your legs teach you something about calmness

[74:51]

Because sometimes your legs may be hurting quite a lot. And you want to move your legs. But if you ask your legs, how do you feel? They might say, oh... I hurt a little, but it's okay. Just leave me alone. The you that wants to move me is a pain in the... So, if you can catch that feeling, sometimes your legs can teach you something about calmness that arises physically, not from some mental idea.

[75:56]

Now, So when you are sitting and you're able to kind of find your seat, so it's pretty soon not you sitting anymore. Maybe when you know your mother, shall we say, your mother is in between you and your mother. For a baby, maybe a baby doesn't have an idea of mother. Maybe a baby knows breast and smiles and smells and so forth. And when the mother comes into the room, the smell alone is enough.

[77:14]

Oh, baby feels good. But the mother is not mother, but smell and breast and smiles and so forth. And in a way, we have to sit that way. So pretty soon it's not you sitting, but your leg is sitting. Stomach is sitting. Somebody saw a picture of Sukhiroshi I happen to have of Sukhiroshi was sitting with Kadagiri Roshi when he was younger. When Katagiri first came over from Japan to help us establish the San Francisco Zen Center. I believe, Gerald and Gisela, you saw the picture, didn't you?

[78:16]

Well, someone remarked that Sukershi was just there in some kind of way that you could really see. Isn't that so? From the picture you could feel it, but in person you could feel it. When he sat, it was like a stump or a rock or something was there. he sat like his legs just belonged to the floor I'm sure his legs were as uncomfortable as yours but he was able to give his legs over to his legs And his legs were just there, his stomach was there, his shoulders were there. And you didn't have a sense of Suzuki Roshi held together by being Suzuki Roshi.

[79:42]

You had an experience of eyes which took over the room. Or a stomach which took over the room. Because each part was just sort of there. And this is the experience of when you find your seat. And you may feel it sometimes. And you may not recognize how really consequentially important it is. Because this feeling isn't dependent on three days of pain. It takes three days of pain for you to stop externalizing the world.

[80:52]

But it doesn't take pain to stop externalizing the world. But sometimes, because there's so much magnet, it's so magnetic, externalization, that you need something very powerful to give you a taste of what it's like not to externalize the world. No, not all suffering is the same. The suffering of losing a parent or a child or a spouse is one kind of suffering and very, very, very painful. But much of our suffering is our attempt to initiate the future or to control the future or to suffer now because we'll get results later on. We have some funny feeling that if we're too happy in the present, the future won't work.

[82:24]

And we spend a lot of time enjoying our suffering. There's no reason at all you can't all be extraordinarily happy right now. I mean, really. You don't have a toothache. Probably most of you don't have a headache. If you have diarrhea, it's not too serious. Where's the problem? Hmm? What are you creating all this problem for? Me too. But when you stop externalizing the world, externalizing yourself as your primary identity into the future, you feel very different.

[83:53]

And every time you see that or do that, whether it's through the taste of it in a sashin, or recognizing your breath body or touching your breath body during the day, you begin to create the sphere or realm which can begin to sustain the interiorization of the world. Now, this koan says, does not dwell in the realms of mind and body. Now, this means does not dwell in the realms of body-mind. And more specifically and characteristic of Zen it means does not dwell in the realms of the Sambhogakaya body.

[85:11]

That's a more kind of developed level of this koan. Because the Sambhogakaya body is the bliss body that is based on the recognition that the self is not real. But there's a danger, or not real meaning not conventionally real, or it's empty. But the danger of recognizing the emptiness of self... And the realization of the bliss body is you get attached to that and not recognize that the world itself is equally empty.

[86:16]

So in Zen, the Sambhogakaya body is recognized as the way in which we establish the sphere of the Dharmakaya. So, just to finish, when you are sitting or walking on walking meditation, and you have some experience, say, of hearing, hearing, or as someone said, they

[87:24]

they experienced their body walking from inside, hearing their bones. They said they were glad the experience didn't last too long. But various people have told me of similar type experiences. Some of you barely noticing what you're saying, and some of you recognizing what you're saying. Now there's two kinds of mind. We can say there's various ways to look at mind, but right now I'll say there's two kinds of mind. conceptual mind and non-conceptual mind the mind tends to be conceptual the senses tend to be non-conceptual so the senses are a way of learning non-conceptuality But generally our mind takes over our senses so your senses are conceptual.

[88:51]

You know, that's an airplane I'm hearing. That's my mother. Those are concepts. But just legs sitting, that's not a concept. Just some music of the spheres in your ear that happens to be on the way to Berlin. But it's just music in your ear, bird or plane, you don't know. This is non-conceptual. So the more you can begin to enter the spheres of the senses non-conceptually, and every time you can shift your sense of identity location into your breath, say, you're beginning to create the sphere or realm of interiorization which just means that when you experience something you experience it as interior

[90:07]

And it's happening, you can say outside, but you experience it as inside. And the more you develop that and that capacity, and the more you feel each person, each sound, etc., as an interior experience, which in fact it is. Your sense of how you exist and enjoy this world profoundly changes. The sphere is where we actually live. Now, the difference between an enlightened person and a non-enlightened person is a non-enlightened person also knows what we call the Tathagatagarbha or Buddha nature.

[91:51]

For a non-enlightened person, the world is also interior. But an enlightened person has the sphere or realm in which to sustain this experience. Okay, sorry to burden you with all this stuff. These small tastes of experiencing things as if they happen inside you, which in fact they do, are small promises

[93:07]

that if you continue practicing, this realization and experience can be yours. It doesn't mean you chase after them. It just means you notice them, you feel them, and they are seeds in your worldview and in your experience. And these seeds will mature in you and mature your continuum and they'll mature in the world and mature in other people. and in other people.

[94:15]

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